Clarky72 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I have a SB1000 (1984) and it came with a spare circuit in the hardcase. Is there anyone here who can identify which if either are original? I'll take some photos tonight if you think you could possibly help, it just doesn't have as much punch as I was expecting, it has brand new batteries so I'm wondering if it's the circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 On mine it's a box full of potting compound with connector pins sticking out. You can't get to the circuitry without digging it all out. I found that one battery would run flat quicker than the other and once it got to that stage would only produce thin farty noises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 ... it's away being reconditioned so I can't post a picture of the tone circuit box. If you can post a picture of yours I'll see if it jogs any memories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yeah mine are little black boxes too. I'll get pics up tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 This is the spare: This is what's in the bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) The nearest schematic I have is this one:— **BUT** there's a difference… according to that, pins 8 & 9 (of 11) aren't used, but in yours, it's only pin 8 (of 10) that's vacant. <sigh> It looks like you have [u][i]another[/i][/u] variant (that makes at least four) </sigh> Does yours have stacked pots? And how many contacts are on the toggle switch? Also... the 'spare' box has what looks like a piece of double-sided tape stuck to the top - has it still got the protective layer on it? If so, [u]that's[/u] the replacement. Also of note is that it's (unusually) unpotted, If it's at all possible to get the PCB out without damaging it, that could help with reverse-engineering a schematic to see what it actually does. The original Mk I BBs had green PCBs, but I have a photo from a 1986 Laser that's brown. Pete. Edited February 12, 2015 by Bloodaxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 (edited) Hi Pete, mine doesn't have stacked pots, I'll have to check the switch tonight when I get home. I'm not sure what protective layer you mean on the spare Pete, do you mean the layer on the tape? The PCB inside is brown I think, but I'll check. The one that's in the bass is potted I think. I do have the diagram you have above, and also this one where only pin 7 is left free... Edited February 13, 2015 by Clarky72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 Oh and this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1423816786' post='2689263'] Hi Pete, mine doesn't have stacked pots, I'll have to check the switch tonight when I get home. I'm not sure what protective layer you mean on the spare Pete, do you mean the layer on the tape? [/quote] Yes. If it's double-sided carpet tape or similar, it'll have a peely-off layer so that it could be stuck to something. The Mk 1 Batwing-era BB was fixed to the cover plate by countersunk bolts - in your photo the BB is living where the batteries go on a Mk 1 & the battery compartment has been redesigned so that the PP3s can lie flat rather than edgewise. [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1423816786' post='2689263']I do have the diagram you have above, and also this one where only pin 7 is left free... <snip>Image</snip>[/quote] I reckon that schematic is for the modern 'RI' re-issue variant. It still has the bizarre dual-gang pots & more complex switch, but the LED circuit is now on the same board (instead of being wrapped up in insulation tape) & it has a multi-way connector block to call its own:— There are some alternative views of this [url="http://ariabasses.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/rsb-900-electronics-restoration.html"]here[/url] where a set of RI electrics are fitted to a Rev-Sound RSB-900. [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1423817086' post='2689267'] Oh and this... <snip>Image</snip> [/quote] That's pages 1 & 4 of the original Mk 1 BB advertising spiel, [url="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MOYGBtYHiZA/TNfzuWIeXBI/AAAAAAAAAk0/-AynFfuyV1Y/s1600/sb-1000+noise-killer_2-001.jpg"]pages 2 & 3[/url] give the lowdown on what it actually does. I suspect that the later versions behave differently (hence the extra pottage & TPDT switching). A bit of Google-fu produced this page: [url="http://www.madinventions.co.uk/prj-ariasb1000.htm"]http://www.madinvent...-ariasb1000.htm[/url] where some other poor damned soul has reverse-engineered the Mk 1 BB. It's nice in that the last photo shows clearly the wiring going into the 10-way con-block. Of particular note is that there's an earth connection on pin 3 that should connect to the pickup screen that's missing from yours—is there a black (or blue) wire floating around loose somewhere? The little connectors that fit into the con-block can get pushed out, so it may be lurking in the rats' nest of wiring. The more I look at this, I'm of the opinion that yours is a Mk 1 BB circuit with a low-battery LED circuit shoehorned in. If that's the case, I'd be wary about using the 'spare' unpotted Black Box [i]just in case[/i] it's a different circuit that [u]might[/u] take offence to being thrust into unexpected surroundings. I don't think it'd explode or anything, but—if it is different—depending on where in the circuit the pots connect you could get instant screaming overdrive or a really sad & sorry excuse for an output signal. If there's any way you can get that out of the box without wrecking it & photo it to death that'd be really handy. I've fired off an e-mail to Mr. Madinventions with a couple of Q's & will update if anything useful occurs. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 /followed I'm going to have to reassemble mine at some point Mine doesn't have an LED. I assume it's a similar vintage to Clarky72's. Mine doesn't have the recessed jack socket like some I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 If it doesn't have the recessed socket, the chances are it's post-Matsumoku era. Does it have a serial on the reverse of the headtsock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 This may be a clue to the circuitry? I've never seen the LED actually light up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'll do some careful dismantling and photography tonight to see if that gives us any more clues... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 If I recall correctly, yes the serial number is on the back of the headstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1423838222' post='2689576'] If I recall correctly, yes the serial number is on the back of the headstock [/quote] Ah ok, does it have the batwing or book headstock? The batwings (series 1) didn't have recessed jacks, and they had slightly different circuitry I beleive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'll post an old photo of it later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 It's a very old (analogue!) photo so excuse the quality - and attire/haircut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 That was so this year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 By the way its a 1977-80 Batwing era, series 1 SB10000. http://www.matsumoku.org/models/ariaproii/bass/sb/sb.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 This is the one inside the bass at the moment... note: this has NOISEKILLER V1.3 printed on the PCB and here's the switch: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think that this one in my bass could be one of these... [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aria-Pro-II-SB-1000-bass-BB-Noisekiller-pre-amp-replacement-upgrade-/261765540352?"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aria-Pro-II-SB-1000-bass-BB-Noisekiller-pre-amp-replacement-upgrade-/261765540352?[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky72 Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share Posted February 13, 2015 my 'spare' looks a lot like an original from the pics on the ebay link above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1423860072' post='2689910'] By the way its a 1977-80 Batwing era, series 1 SB10000. http://www.matsumoku.org/models/ariaproii/bass/sb/sb.html [/quote] That's the chap. Thanks for the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 [quote name='Norris' timestamp='1423857352' post='2689868']It's a very old (analogue!) photo so excuse the quality - and attire/haircut [/quote] Yup - a Series 1. The thinking on the dating-by-serial sketch has changed in the last year or so... It used to be that first digit = year, but it's got a bit more complicated as it looks like they changed the system in 1980. The new interpretation runs like this: Pre 1980 — MM-Y-NNN, where MM is the month (05 = May, 11 = Nov etc.), Y = Year (either 7, 8 or 9) and NNN = the production number for that month (not necessarily restricted to SBs) 1980 7 beyond — Y-MM-NNN(N), where it goes Year/Month/Prod. This should apply to Clarky's. At some point the production number went from 3 to 4 digits. So I used to think that my two batwings were from 1980 as they started with a zero. My SB-1000 is 049140 which I took to be 198[b]0[/b] & then either a random number or possibly April ([b]4[/b]) # [b]9140[/b], however that now gets interpreted as April ([b]04[/b]), 197[b]9[/b], # [b]140[/b]. Same applies to my SB-900 (059104) which translates as #104 from May '79. My RS-850 guitar follows the second system so 002039 turns into 198[b]0[/b] Feb ([b]02[/b]) #[b]039[/b]. Yours should be straightforward to rehabilitate. Essentially the BB is 'always on' and the toggle switch just drops the vari-tone in & out. There's the circuit schematic as posted above as part of the 'Noise Killer' leaflet, but if you wanted to do away with it I have a schematic that allows that & still keeps the 6-way vari-tone. That's what I did when I rebuilt mine (with an extra pickup), & it sounds fine to my ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 [quote name='Clarky72' timestamp='1423861586' post='2689937'] I think that this one in my bass could be one of these... [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Aria-Pro-II-SB-1000-bass-BB-Noisekiller-pre-amp-replacement-upgrade-/261765540352?"]http://www.ebay.co.u...-/261765540352?[/url] [/quote] Looks suspiciously like it, I've e-mailed the guy who makes them for confirmation. Here's an original Mk 1 PCB:— No branding at all. Ta for the pic of the switch, that confirms that it's a 4PDT wired as a 3PDT which is appropriate for an '84. What I [i]can't[/i] tell from the photo is if yours has dual-gang pots. They look like singles, but I can't be sure as the top wafer might be very close to the bodywork. Any chance of a photo without the rats' nest wiring loom in the way? Also... what value is printed on them? Is there any significant tonal difference with the toggle switch in either position & the vari-tone set to full left? Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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