A pair of Celestion 1225es - worthwhile for a bass cab?

[labougie]

I'm coming back to bass-playing after many years away from it. I've got a pair of 1225e Celestions (300w, fs 61Hz, Xmax 3.3mm, XMech 12mm). Would I be banging my head against a brick wall trying to build two 1x12 cabs with these, driving them with maybe 250 watts of Peavey and expecting to get enough bottom end to do small pub gigs with?

[Balcro]

[quote name='labougie' post='247261' date='Jul 24 2008, 08:47 PM']I'm coming back to bass-playing after many years away from it. I've got a pair of 1225e Celestions (300w, fs 61Hz, Xmax 3.3mm, XMech 12mm). Would I be banging my head against a brick wall trying to build two 1x12 cabs with these, driving them with maybe 250 watts of Peavey and expecting to get enough bottom end to do small pub gigs with?[/quote]


IMHO you would be banging your head against the brick wall. I think they'll sound a bit thin. They're probably quite easy to damage unless you play very quietly. OK for lead or rhythm though.
If you have funds available, look for a speaker drive units with an fs between 38-45 and an Xmax of 6mm or higher.

[Hamster]

Building a cab is easy compared with designing a cab that will produce the sound you want. The speakers have to be matched to the cab, which I think you're aware of. If like me you don't have the savvy to do this then there's this website which is an excellent resource for what you're planning to do - [url="http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/"]http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/[/url]


In fact, Bill might be along soon to post to your thread..........

Hamster

[labougie]

Funds available? Ha!! This is probably going to be the same thing everyone’s heard a squintillion times before. I’m too old to lug around anything bigger than a pair of 1x12s and indeed, 2 12s ought to move a lot more air than a single 15. Two BFM 10.5s would be excellent from a size pov, but again, I’m a bottom end John McVie/Rick Danko sort of player and I’m not sure they’d give me what I’m after. I’ve got Bass Box Pro to help me sort out a cabinet design, but I can’t seem to find any 12” speakers with fs 40 and xmax 6. Is there (affordably) such a thing?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='labougie' post='247261' date='Jul 24 2008, 03:47 PM']I'm coming back to bass-playing after many years away from it. I've got a pair of 1225e Celestions (300w, fs 61Hz, Xmax 3.3mm, XMech 12mm). Would I be banging my head against a brick wall trying to build two 1x12 cabs with these, driving them with maybe 250 watts of Peavey and expecting to get enough bottom end to do small pub gigs with?[/quote]You won't knock walls down but they'll do for a small club. 3.3mm xmax is about average for OEM drivers. Do the cabs right and you'll likely be better of than with commercial 1x12s.

[thinman]

[quote name='labougie' post='247335' date='Jul 24 2008, 10:13 PM']Funds available? Ha!! This is probably going to be the same thing everyone’s heard a squintillion times before. I’m too old to lug around anything bigger than a pair of 1x12s and indeed, 2 12s ought to move a lot more air than a single 15. Two BFM 10.5s would be excellent from a size pov, but again, I’m a bottom end John McVie/Rick Danko sort of player and I’m not sure they’d give me what I’m after. I’ve got Bass Box Pro to help me sort out a cabinet design, but I can’t seem to find any 12” speakers with fs 40 and xmax 6. Is there (affordably) such a thing?[/quote]
I replaced an Ashdown 1 x 15 with an Omni10. Once the drivers were loosened up the Omni10 bottom end was far superior.

I think it's a fallacy that larger drivers always give a better bottom-end response - there's too many other factors to make that always true.

[Balcro]

[quote name='labougie' post='247335' date='Jul 24 2008, 10:13 PM']Funds available? Ha!! This is probably going to be the same thing everyone’s heard a squintillion times before. I’m too old to lug around anything bigger than a pair of 1x12s and indeed, 2 12s ought to move a lot more air than a single 15. Two BFM 10.5s would be excellent from a size pov, but again, I’m a bottom end John McVie/Rick Danko sort of player and I’m not sure they’d give me what I’m after. I’ve got Bass Box Pro to help me sort out a cabinet design, but I can’t seem to find any 12” speakers with fs 40 and xmax 6. Is there (affordably) such a thing?[/quote]


G' morning.
OK, perhaps too much wishful thinking on my part, particularly with the Xmax, but there's loads of choice aroundabout the fs I quoted. Before my first reply I checked bluearan.co.uk and usspeaker.com.

Eminence Beta 12. - 225w, fs 50, Xmax 3.2 and ok for a vented cab. £38 from BlueAran.
Eminence Kappa 12a. 450w, fs 45, Xmax 3.2 & OK for vented cab. £70 " " ".
Eminence Delta 12 LF. 500w, fs 45, Xmax 4.8 & OK for vented cab. £52 " " ".
Beyma SM112N.. 400w. fs 38, Xmax 5.5 & OK for vented cab. £68 " " ".

BlueAran describe your Celestions as PA speakers, so they're not optimised for bass extension. See the following link: - [url="http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/pdf/TF1225%20e.pdf"]http://professional.celestion.com/pro/prod.../TF1225%20e.pdf[/url]

They will work in the pub as BFM suggests. Have fun with BB Pro.

[labougie]

Fun and games today. A buddy appeared with a Laney RBW200 - 125w 12" combo which sounded awful. I think the speaker might be past it but there was no bottom end and it farted like a demon. Took the speaker out (Beta 12A) and replaced it with one of the 1225es, which actually sounded rather better. The 1225es, bty, are already in cabinets (25 litres tuned to about 60Hz)- they're the bottom half of a small PA rig (one 12" per side, HF poled up on top). The Laney has an extension speaker socket so I tried one of the PA cabinets as an extension, with the other 1225e still in the Laney which was again an improvement. The next step was obviously to put the PA cabs back together, take the amp out of the Laney and hook it up to both PA cabs. Lo and behold, it sounds really quite reasonable. The enclosures are much smaller than optimum, and 125w isn't enough, but it's for sure enough to get going with. I'm surprised that the Celestions (which are PA speakers as Balcro pointed out) will take that much bottom end without complaining - it only farts when the amp overloads. A productive day - and thanks for all the input. If I ever get around to doing this properly, two Beyma SM112N in 35 litres each with a big old Peavey amp on top would be the way!

[Balcro]

[quote name='labougie' post='248057' date='Jul 25 2008, 07:58 PM']Fun and games today. A buddy appeared with a Laney RBW200 - 125w 12" combo which sounded awful. I think the speaker might be past it but there was no bottom end and it farted like a demon. Took the speaker out (Beta 12A) and replaced it with one of the 1225es, which actually sounded rather better. The 1225es, bty, are already in cabinets (25 litres tuned to about 60Hz)- they're the bottom half of a small PA rig (one 12" per side, HF poled up on top). The Laney has an extension speaker socket so I tried one of the PA cabinets as an extension, with the other 1225e still in the Laney which was again an improvement. The next step was obviously to put the PA cabs back together, take the amp out of the Laney and hook it up to both PA cabs. Lo and behold, it sounds really quite reasonable. The enclosures are much smaller than optimum, and 125w isn't enough, but it's for sure enough to get going with. I'm surprised that the Celestions (which are PA speakers as Balcro pointed out) will take that much bottom end without complaining - it only farts when the amp overloads. A productive day - and thanks for all the input. If I ever get around to doing this properly, two Beyma SM112N in 35 litres each with a big old Peavey amp on top would be the way![/quote]


Good testing day and reward for hard work. Result. By the way the Beymas work best in cabinets 30 - 100 litres.

Cheers, Balcro

[labougie]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='247463' date='Jul 25 2008, 01:05 AM']You won't knock walls down but they'll do for a small club. 3.3mm xmax is about average for OEM drivers. Do the cabs right and you'll likely be better of than with commercial 1x12s.[/quote]

This man speaks the truth! The two Celestions are now in a 38 litre cab each, being driven by a 300w Laney R4H head and sounding clean, tight and ballsy, as well as plenty loud enough for what I want. Happy Bunny!