Mod_Machine Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hello, Doing an old jedson tele bass resto. Iwas well aware before buying that the two main issues are tuning/intonation and noisey electrics. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=119103"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=119103[/url] The intonation seems to have been sorted by acknowledging that the bridge is supposed to be a floating space roller bridge, but for some reason they were bolted to the body when manufactured. However the electronics are another kettle of fish. I havent played it yet - however all elctrics seem fine (supple wires etc) and i have replaced jack socket. Certainly appears to be wired up acoording to a standard pasive wiring diagram. Without it being attached to the bass i plugged into an amp (all pickups and electrics are held to the scrath plate) to see if noisey when nothing going through it. With either one or both single coil pick ups selected you can hear when i 'knock' or 'touch' the pick up with a small screw driver/biro etc. These are un noisey though will get a better idea when attached to bass and an earth run to the bridge. However when i slide the two independant selectors to the 'off' position it becomes noisey! the pick ups dont pick up anything it just gets a bit 'hissy'. Any ideas whats causing it and how to erradicate? (The thread above includes pictures of the electronics if it helps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 just sounds to me like the off positions have rarely been used and are dirty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod_Machine Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Oh - how/where do i sort that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 maplins switch cleaner? new switches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1100885' date='Jan 24 2011, 02:54 PM']Hello, Doing an old jedson tele bass resto. Iwas well aware before buying that the two main issues are tuning/intonation and noisey electrics. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=119103"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=119103[/url] The intonation seems to have been sorted by acknowledging that the bridge is supposed to be a floating space roller bridge, but for some reason they were bolted to the body when manufactured. However the electronics are another kettle of fish. I havent played it yet - however all elctrics seem fine (supple wires etc) and i have replaced jack socket. Certainly appears to be wired up acoording to a standard pasive wiring diagram. Without it being attached to the bass i plugged into an amp (all pickups and electrics are held to the scrath plate) to see if noisey when nothing going through it. With either one or both single coil pick ups selected you can hear when i 'knock' or 'touch' the pick up with a small screw driver/biro etc. These are un noisey though will get a better idea when attached to bass and an earth run to the bridge. However when i slide the two independant selectors to the 'off' position it becomes noisey! the pick ups dont pick up anything it just gets a bit 'hissy'. Any ideas whats causing it and how to erradicate? (The thread above includes pictures of the electronics if it helps)[/quote] When you slide the switches to the off position you are detaching the pickups from the live side of the circuit and leaving the live side 'floating' at the switch so you will get a little bit of noise creeping in. Looking at the pics you posted previously, quite a lot of that soldering is looking decidedly suspect - if you are removing the pickups from one end of the electronics 'chain' then the rest of the chain going back to the jack socket should be considered as suspect. As it's a pretty simple wiring setup, if it was me I think I'd just replace the pots, slider swiches and cabling with new - they're all 'off the shelf' parts instead of 'posh' guitar parts, so not an expensive option... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod_Machine Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hi, Original plan was to replace the pickups and all wiring, but i dont now want to replace anything i dont have to. There is no noise at all when selected, so with my 'mechs' head on ill start with the cheapest thing and work backwards, replacing all the cabling, then up the 'chain' of replacements to get rid of the noise. Not a rush for me to remove as a) a resto only when both switched to off and i never switch my pickups off anyway. I think ill get a much better idea as to how bad the sound is once hooked up to an amp now i have strings etc on. As for cleaning the switches - i know that WD40 is a bad idea as doesnt lube - but would GT85 work (leaves a layer of teflon)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod_Machine Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Oh - and when you say the soldering looks suspect what do you mean (just messy or wrong places?) , and how would that impact in what way? (sorry for niave questions but the resto project is supposed to get me involved and find out things that previously i didnt know but was too afraid to ask at fear of looking stupid!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101093' date='Jan 24 2011, 05:34 PM']Hi, Original plan was to replace the pickups and all wiring, but i dont now want to replace anything i dont have to. There is no noise at all when selected, so with my 'mechs' head on ill start with the cheapest thing and work backwards, replacing all the cabling, then up the 'chain' of replacements to get rid of the noise. Not a rush for me to remove as a) a resto only when both switched to off and i never switch my pickups off anyway. I think ill get a much better idea as to how bad the sound is once hooked up to an amp now i have strings etc on. As for cleaning the switches - i know that WD40 is a bad idea as doesnt lube - but would GT85 work (leaves a layer of teflon)?[/quote] I'd personally go for a proper switch cleaner, but then I have a can here and the WD40 is out in the workshop - so that's an easy option WD40 would do at a push, not sure what GT85 is so I'd give that a miss - switches don't have lube in them anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101099' date='Jan 24 2011, 05:38 PM']Oh - and when you say the soldering looks suspect what do you mean (just messy or wrong places?) , and how would that impact in what way? (sorry for niave questions but the resto project is supposed to get me involved and find out things that previously i didnt know but was too afraid to ask at fear of looking stupid!)[/quote] There's nothing stupid about asking questions - stupid is not asking questions when you should Solder joints should be shiny and well formed over both the wire and the surface it is being joined to. Essentially a good rule of thumb is to treat every bad joint as a potential way to add noise to the overall circuit. Also, on your selector switches I notice that the earth lead is soldered directly onto the switch retaining bolt - the chances of that making a good electrical contact are very slim - best option would be to use a little eyelet to fit the bolt if the switches need to be earthed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod_Machine Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hi - GT85 is similar to wd40 but leaves a coating of teflon to aid lubrication, unlike wd40 which is just a disperser. eg in mountain biking its great for levers, cogs etc as displaces the dirt and moisture that cause rust but leaves teflon down which helps lubricate and reduces wear. Surely the switch being a slider is a moving part running over a sensor, or completing, the circuit? icastle, It thought the earth was the length (originally a long piece of solder) running from the volume control to the bridge? (its been cut in the pics) I now understand by what you mean by dodgy soldering - explains why my mates soldering looks so much better on the jack socket he soldered in front of me! So best is to change the cables and re solder pretty much everything as a standard = not hard. If im doing that is there somewhere else better to solder the slider switch earth - or is it not really needed? This is supposed to be a very simple passive job and i know that when other people have taken Jedson to guitar techs with noise they have regularly been told it has been miswired at factory. Cheers for the support and understanding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 These were noisy when new. Some suggestions: fit earth wire to bridge asap. Screen your cavities wax pot the pickups - they really were very very tap sensitive, rewire with screened wire as appropriate. Look forward to hearing this through modern kit with modern strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']Hi - GT85 is similar to wd40 but leaves a coating of teflon to aid lubrication, unlike wd40 which is just a disperser. eg in mountain biking its great for levers, cogs etc as displaces the dirt and moisture that cause rust but leaves teflon down which helps lubricate and reduces wear. Surely the switch being a slider is a moving part running over a sensor, or completing, the circuit?[/quote] It is but the problem is that lubricants might be either conductive or produce a film over the contacts which stops them from working as effectively as they should. [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']It thought the earth was the length (originally a long piece of solder) running from the volume control to the bridge? (its been cut in the pics)[/quote] That was just the earth to the bridge. The main earth comes from the jack socket and is then soldered to the back of the pots in a chain. It also connects to the bridge and, in your case, the metallic bodies of the selector switches as well. All metal parts on the bass should end up being earthed at some part in the circuit (even the strings because they are in contact with the bridge which is also earthed!) [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']I now understand by what you mean by dodgy soldering - explains why my mates soldering looks so much better on the jack socket he soldered in front of me![/quote] Yep In fairness to the ghosts of the Jedson soldering iron wielders, I don't think this left the factory in the state it currently is in. I suspect that someone has been in there before you [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']So best is to change the cables and re solder pretty much everything as a standard = not hard.[/quote] Yep I'd just pull the whole lot out and start again. The pots are just bog standard pots (about £1.50 each), the switches are bog standard DPDT slider switches (about £1.50 each) and a metre of single cable is less than a quid. You've already got a new socket so that can be desoldered and used again easily. So £10 would buy you all the parts, a bag of chips and enough left over to buy a packet of elastoplast just in case... [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']If im doing that is there somewhere else better to solder the slider switch earth - or is it not really needed?[/quote] Well I'd put it back there on the grounds that it was there in the first place, it was awkward to solder it there and must have had a purpose. The chances of making a good solder connection to a bolt are pretty slim so I'd probably use some little solder eyelets: So, the bolt comes through the scratchplate, through the switch mounting hole, through a little serrated washer, through the eyelet, through another serrated washer and then the nut goes on. It is also possible to solder earth cables directly onto the side of the switch but it can be fiddly to get right if you aren't used to it. [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1101283' date='Jan 24 2011, 08:02 PM']This is supposed to be a very simple passive job and i know that when other people have taken Jedson to guitar techs with noise they have regularly been told it has been miswired at factory.[/quote] Yeah, I've heard talk about this miswiring thing but haven't been able to track down any specific detail about it. Looking at your wiring photos, quality issues aside, the cabling looks like it's running to the right places so I don't think you have that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod_Machine Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 thankyou - thats an extremely helpfull and informative answer. Im going to try cleanng the switches, and will resolder all exisiting with new wiring when i solder the bridge earth on. Ill then see what its like and change the switches for new ones in a couple of months when i change the bridge pickup. Cheers for all you help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 [quote name='Mod_Machine' post='1102128' date='Jan 25 2011, 02:00 PM']thankyou - thats an extremely helpfull and informative answer. Im going to try cleanng the switches, and will resolder all exisiting with new wiring when i solder the bridge earth on. Ill then see what its like and change the switches for new ones in a couple of months when i change the bridge pickup. Cheers for all you help[/quote] No problem - feel free to shout if you are unsure of anything. Not sure what soldering experience you have, but there was a thread about soldering [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=110170"]here[/url] last year that may come in handy if you're not used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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