Minininjarob

FYI a little factoid from a church friend who helped set it all up (he works for the installation company) - the first song to be played through our PA was Rage Against the Machine - Bombtrack. Probably hasn’t been played since!! Great for testing I suppose. 

6 minutes ago, Richard R said:

It means you have a system that would make many church sound engineers envious. 

Yeah I understand it’s nice stuff, we try to look after it well. We’ve done a lot of music stuff over the years (couple of CDs) so when the new building was built for us we went for a decent system. The auditorium does get hired out for big concerts so it’s probably paid for itself in some respects over the years. I remember we held the Big Church night in with Wickham/Rend Collective which was pretty cool. 
Just makes it more daunting for me!! But everyone has been super helpful and supportive. Been practising those 3 songs like crazy despite having flu so hopefully it’ll go ok. 

Just found out what we have as far as IEMs go, it’s about 13 years old but still works great apparently. I think they are looking to get wireless IEMs for the whole stage as the wires are a bit crazy and look messy but that’ll be costly so we looking to fundraise for them. 
Don’t ask me about any more details as I don’t know what below means anyway!!
“Digidesign profile mixrack controls monitors - full IEM is used on stage with Shure PSM600 hardwired packs and six channels of Sennheiser wireless IEM.”

2 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

How does that work? Do you all buy your own IEMs? Share them? Which brand do you use?

 

I ask because we have been told that is the aim of the band at church - buy your own in ears, so we no longer need to use the monitors -the aim is to reduce stage volume.  Predictably, people are confusing IEMs with the £10 earphones used with their phones, and nobody has made a move to buy even those. 

 

I am not sure that I want to buy in-ears - I would only need them for church, and feel that they should be supplied (or at least, funded). Otherwise, it feels like I am paying to play (having already invested in my instruments).

 

Instead, I tried a set of big headphones on Sunday, just to show willing, and I could turn down the stage volume a lot.  However, others didn't  - monitors up too loud, guitar amps set to 'stun'.

 

At one point, the leader said "just drums and bass!" and turned to us to say it. Unfortunately, this meant that he was off-mic, and I didn't hear him. However, I guessed what he was saying, but.....

 

....the congregation were not miced up, so I didn't know whether they were singing the chorus or the verse. 

 

So, a successful experiment, if only to show what could go wrong. 

 

We have to buy our own earpieces, we have been recommended KZ ones off Amazon which are pretty cheap, decent set for £20. The person who recommends them to me is a pro sound engineer who comes to our church and he said they stack up well to his £800 custom moulded ones he uses in his job. 
 

I don’t think it’s much to buy your own IEMS, they are the price of a set of strings. It was considered buying sets for the musicians but we have I think at least 50 people who would need them and no one wants to share a set - hygenie issues etc. Also people take them home by mistake etc, lose the tips. 
 

I think we have 4 or 5 room mics to feed back audience noise, that can be included in your personal mix as much as you want. We do have a digital monitor desk which is manned so it’s easy to get a good mix. Everyone is on IEM so there isn’t any competition between musicians. The only person who has an amp is the guitarist if they want one and that’s mic’ed up in a back room. 
 

I can get pics on Friday of what we use if anyone is interested. 

25 minutes ago, Owen said:

This is not directed at anyone in this thread. But we all get excited about putting the killer fill in (I am guilty as anyone) etc. Would I play like Sharay Reed all the time if I could? Obviously, yes. But the reality is that whatever the genre, we need to play for the song and nothing else. Playing in church, often means playing with players who are a mix of inexperienced and very experienced. Some have been gigging for years and some are just beginning. The keys players are generally pianists who bring with them the full skillset of all the notes all the time. In such a situation if we are playing much more than the big letter on 1 and 3 then we are risking confusion and car crashes. Often there is no drummer and it is up to us to put the pulse down. Sometimes there is a drummer and it is still up to us to put a pulse down. H*** R****** I am looking at you. Sometimes everyone will be on it and you can loosen up a bit. But in general, it is the big letter on 1 and 3 or if you are feeling funky then dotted crotchet, quaver and a minim. Anything more than that means people do not have anything to hang on to. Our job is to lay the structure down in a way that is impossible to miss.

Have to agree in some ways. Make it too complex and it just gets lost. We have a guy who has played in funk and soul bands for decades and he is a genius in the bass but a lot of what her plays doesn’t come out cos we have piano and brass and the mix is fairly subtle and not loud. But someone else just laying down a solid bass line then really digging in just a little faster when needed stands out really well. 
I am hoping this simplistic approach will suit me well. 
And having a P bass played with a pick might help too. 😂

8 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

What the other three said - from what you’ve said you’ve not played live much before… church is a great way of learning to play live - aim for getting the simple things bulletproof before adding anything else.

 

the main skill to focus on isn’t playing interesting lines, but listening to the others in the band and learning to lock in and play in a supportive way.

 

It’s very easy to come up with the best riff ever at home and then get to Sunday and find the drummer has a different idea of what the rhythm is doing and it doesn’t fit

I’ve not played live in front of people ever!

After writing the songs out I’ve realised they are quite simple - especially compared to the music I normally play - but I will still try and keep it simple to start off with. Keep the timing right, get the right notes. 
I’ve been going to the church for 20 years so I know the feel of the songs but I also recently have been thinking about how I would play them and how I would fit around the musicians who will be playing with me. Not trying to show off (I don’t have the capability to do that!) just want to demonstrate “hey I imagine it like this”. 
I don’t know who I will be playing with and can’t guess as we have 4 seperate workshop bands so anyone could be there! But I know all their styles so hopefully I can look around and maybe have a quick idea on what to do. 

Going to be weird using IEMs for the first time with zero on stage monitoring but I am at least next to the drummer and able to see everyone else so hopefully that works out ok 
I will let you know how I do!!

 I’m very nervous as I’m going for a rhythm section practice on Friday night for the very first time - never played in the church I go to, only been playing a year!!

Been given the three songs we are going through, thankfully I think I can manage them ok. 
Salvation is here (one of our own church songs). 

Revelation Song

Might to Save 

So I’ve never played in front of people (but I do have a band who are planning to one day) and I’ve never used IEMs before - our whole setup is IEMS, no monitors at all on stage. 
 

I am bricking it!! Going to do a lot of practice and try and think of my own way to play each song rather than just the basic root notes. 

On 23/02/2024 at 23:18, Longwheelbass said:

It's a 74, but no-one likes to be 86'd...

Wow that looks amazing. So cool. (not joking!)

6 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well OP wanted the amp not to color the tone of his bass, and I assume that would because he wants an uncolored tone.

 

No use having an amp that doesn't color your signal if the speaker does, and a regular bass cab will, even quite a lot.

 

I agree though that an uncolored FRFR representation of the signal that comes from your bass rarely actually is desirable.

 

I didn’t say which one I preferred. From the descriptions people have given and what I have tried so far I think I I’m going to stay away from the amps described as hifi. Sounds a bit lifeless to me. 

Well from the (very helpful honestly) descriptions you have provided I think I’m gonna steer clear of the hifi sound and I know what I’m looking for now, thanks. 

2 hours ago, cetera said:

Original GK400RB and 800RB heads are the mutts nuts. Best amps ever imho...

I have been looking at 400rb’s, my favourite bassist used one!

6 hours ago, basshead56 said:

 

It’s not often a SVT rig looks a bit puny!!!

The Marshall looks like it’s stealing the Ampegs lunch money. 

On 05/02/2024 at 16:31, fretmeister said:

 

 

Unless your band doesn't use or need a PA. Bit stuck then! 

Exactly. My first ever band has a promise of 2 places we can play. Neither of them have PA beyond a vocal mic (and we aren’t sure about that tbh) so we are going to be taking our amps to use!! IEMs no use when you have no PA and more importantly you can’t afford them. 😂

On 05/02/2024 at 16:27, joel406 said:

Having owned the Legacy 800. Fusion 800 and 1200. And being a lifelong GK user. The latest line GK has is a terrible disappointment. I fought with all of them and lost every time. Sold all of it. I am now living happily with the current Mesa Subway system. Their 212 and 410 cabs are truly the best in the business. Their D-800+ was my sweet spot. And yes I did own the TT-800 and the WD-800. Both fine amps. Just not for me. I also recomend the current Epifani offering. The UL901. Crazy good tone through the Subway cabs. 

 

While I keep a stock of these amps and cabs on hand for when needed. I always chose amp less for live gigs. The Quad Cortex blows it all away. Quality IEMS beat any cab.

Which one of the older GK amps would you recommend? I see a lot of RB400s around similar. Love the GK sound in my MB112 combo and don’t mind an older heavier head. 

Ok I see this description a lot and and as a relative beginner I’m a little confused. I used to be into hifi so I don’t understand why I don’t understand!! 😂

I suppose I need to know what to avoid really - here are the amps I have tried and whether I liked them and can you educate me on whether i like hifi sound or not?

I play a P-bass with a pick BTW if it makes any difference. 
My Amp - GK MB112 combo - love the sound esp when turned up. 
I have tried:

GK 2001rb into a GK 4x10. Wow. Just WOW. 

TC electronics 800w head into a TC 4x10 - ok and versatile but left me cold. 
Ampeg SVT (all valve) into an Ampeg 8x10 (new models) - was hoping I’d like this and the music I like tends to favour these but it didn’t excite me as it should but I couldn’t turn it up much or have much time with it. 

Older Trace Elliot combo - not a fan. Kinda boomy and boring flat sound. 
In rehearsal rooms:

Older Hartke TA head into a 8x10 - quite liked it but not as much as Gk

Trace Elliot head (older one I think) into a 4x10. Awful, just awful. I don’t know why. Too harsh? Just weird. 
 

So what do I like and what brands should I be looking for? GK obviously I know!!
 

Oh my word my dream rig. Absolutely gorgeous. Probably way out of my price range unfortunately. 😫

If you are anywhere near Huddersfield I have an Orange VT1000 valve tester you can pop the valves in. 
Sometimes if they test ok with a multimeter they still don’t work in situ. 
 

I can’t see the problem. All I can see is a well used and loved bass which looks a damn sight better than all the fake relic’d stuff you can buy. 

1 hour ago, Richard R said:

 

Sorry @EBS_freak, I just realised I didn't reply to your question. 

 

They are these:

https://www.rcblogic.co.uk/product/ptzoptics-move-se-20x-zoom-grey

With NDI support.

 

Towards the end of the pandemic when we were coming back to church there was a debate if we should carry on livestream and if so with what equipment.  The question was answered by a generous donation from some members which paid for three of these, plus the network cabling, poe switches and ancillary controllers.

It is now a key part of our mission,  especially to the elderly and housebound.

 

We did the same during the pandemic and recorded each service BUT nowadays although it’s recorded it’s only available to selected people who cannot come to church for valid reason eg leaders away on church business, terminally ill, long term sick people who can’t get out of the house. We didn’t want people to just watch it at home rather than coming to church. 
I do the live video mixing and recording so it can be sent out Monday AM with little editing. I’ve heard feedback that it’s really appreciated by the people who watch it so it’s nice to make an extra effort for them. 
 

BTW we have 3x BlackMagic 4k pro G2 cameras with long zoom lenses as we video from the back of the auditorium. It all goes through a black magic ATEM 4 M/E Constellation 4K live production switcher, all controlled with a Mac Mini running the BM software. 
We have the advantage of having a pro video and lighting engineer in our congregation so we got a good deal on it all and we didn’t have to pay to have it installed. 

10 hours ago, LeftyP said:

We don't usually have a mid-week rehearsal for our church band but with our carol service coming up on Christmas Eve we had a get together last night.  I really enjoyed trying out the songs and arrangements and felt that I was a better player by the end.  We had the usual situation of several different versions of the same song.  Three of us had the lyrics for "O Come, O Come Immanuel"  while the rest had different verses to "O Come, O Come Emmanuel"!  One of my chord charts must have been put together by Eric Morecambe as I had all the right verses but not necessarily in the right order!

 

Our usual run through happens on a Sunday morning about an hour before the service but I would really like a mid-week rehearsal to explore the arrangements and just spend time with the rest of the band.  Sadly I am in the minority so playing along to mp3s at home will need to continue.  Do you have regular band rehearsal during the week?

We used to have Fri night practice but it went on a long time and by the time Sunday came along the leader often had felt a change or two was needed (after praying about it) so practice was still needed p on the Sunday. So to avoid the long practice on the Fri it was decided to meet earlier on the Sunday to do the practice. Everyone has to be well prepared but it works well as everything is fresh when the service starts and people are thankful to get another evening free. 
 

We have 4 bands that play in rotation and members so get together socially and for extra experience playing with each other (not just to practice for the Sunday). That really has helped make the sound much better as people know each other better and discuss how to fit into the music in their own space better. 
 

Before we had the 4 bands you could be playing with diff people every time so even though we had the Friday practice it was a struggle to get the overall sound good. It’s great now and the musicians are clearly worshipping with their instruments and you can see they are more relaxed and joyful. 
 

Worked for us, you just gotta try different things sometimes. 
 

Hopefully one day I’ll be asked to join them, just gotta put the practice in!!

Currently i am on the video production side so I’ve seen the positive changes made.

4 hours ago, drTStingray said:

I once looked into buying a Fender Precision but amongst the eye watering range of apparently the same instrument from relatively cheap to eye watering prices, I couldn’t decide which one to get………. apparently there’s even one called a Vintera (without Vintera on the headstock) and an Ultra, an Ultra 11, American Professional, American Professional 11 - and various other baffling models. 
 

As per @warwickhunt I concluded Fender, along with Warwick, Musicman and probably several other companies making guitars have very confusing marketing strategies which involve updating their models every couple of years and issuing umpteen variants. Probably Fender is the most confusing to those who don’t follow their activities on a day to day basis. But they all seem to be doing OK!! 
 

Now the Stingray is quite straightforward - there are just several variants (currently) and have been several variants in the past. Best bet is to find a shop with some in stock and try playing them and pick the one you like. 
 

If you want to know what’s available now, the best bet is to go on their web site and look!! The Stingray has been around for nearly 50 yrs - during which time there’ve been a lot of different variations on the same concept. 

As a complete beginner last year I found the Fender ranges to be pretty obvious but the Stingray range to still be confusing although with the help on here I think I get it. Maybe your username suggests you have a long history with them which might help!

Which one would you recommend out of the single pickup range? Not sure which type of pickup would be best for me. 
I would go and try them in a shop if anyone within an hours drive had any in stock. 😞

10 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

That was a G3, very different tone.

The standard Grabber had a single pickup so didn't have the bedspring twang of the G3.

Ahh I see good to know. 

2 hours ago, Bolo said:

In conclusion it turns out that yes, anyone can explain the Musicman Stingray series!

I’m clearer in some respects and more confused in others. 😂😂

3 hours ago, David Caldeira said:

Hi there folks, do you guys know anyone who makes replicas of the gibson grabber's pickup, the sliding one, dark sounding, P kind of sound ?

Mike Dirnt plays a Grabber in quite a few Greenday tunes and I love the sound of them. I can see why you’d like one. 

3 hours ago, neepheid said:

Further dividing the Sterling by Musicman range, is the number after the "Ray"

 

Ray4/5 - cheapest

Ray24/25 - middle

Ray34/35 - most expensive

 

Then there are oddbods like the Shortscale Ray which comes in at 24 prices and the Darkray which comes in at its own eyewatering price.

As far as I can tell the first is passive, the next two have 2 and 3 way EQ, is that right?

Also what’s the benefit of having the double pickup HH variant? Just more options or do they sound different like jazz/precision different? I’d be interested in the HH if it was a more powerful output.