4 Strings

Don't know if anyone is still interested in this thread, my lad needed a good bass and wanted one of these for Christmas. We found one in as new condition from the dreaded ebay for >£100 less than new price.

I must admit I was worried about the finish adn build qality, the pick-ups and the general quality. The specs are elite and the materials, on paper at least, seem from the top drawer. So what's it like? Well I can give first impressions, maybe I'll come back in a while with a longer term view.

First impressions were of an immaculate finish. Perhaps one guided by laser and computer aided technology in Korea than by a craftsman's hand in the Midlands. Either way, perfectly smooth transitions between the woods, beautifully smooth maple top with that 3D effect in the grain which has been shaped into a bowed top with a smooth ridge around the edge which gently blends into the cutaways. 5 piece through-neck again with perfectly smooth transitions into the body and to the small headstock. It is an amazing piece of work. Makes Fenders look crude and clumsy.

Playing it is, of course, a little odd at first with that small body and amazing access to all 24 frets. After some orientation and getting the gist of where the neck actually is (seems more the left than, for axample, a Precision) it plays perfectly well. No buzzes, reasonably low action and allows a fast movement around the frets. The strings are closer than that Precision, which is fine by me, but not too close by any means. Hopefully the lad will change to some lighter strings (can never see the point of anything heavier than a 35 on the G) which will make it easier still. I'll certainly hope to be back on this issue.

Sound? None at all to start with. Pulled off the back panel and saw some bare twisted wire joints and soldering done by a 4 year old. There had to be a snag and I found it. Soldered up the joints, wrapped it all up nicely with insulation tape and it worked. What was that about? Had the previous owner had a go at this or was this factory work? I'll never know. Half the soldering looked fine but half was awful.

So, now it works, the sound varies between thin to huge. Crank up the bass and treble controls, leave the middle on flat and flat eq on the amp gives a massive sound. Very detailed and bright - excellent for slap - with some real weight. Couldn't find a middly Jaco sort of sound though, but its early days. Haven't tried for Precision type sounds yet, perhaps because we had so much fun with 'active' sounds.

I have been pleasantly surprised by this bass, the lad is delighted. At the moment its a recommendation. Its not a character-filled vintage Fender, its a modern bass with a modern sound for a younger generation.

Perhaps with (plenty of) use and time, it will begin to attain character.

[quote name='Spoombung' date='Dec 2 2009, 10:23 PM' post='672587']
When I was learning bass in the 70's it was always the guitarists who would say "you need a Fender Precision" and whenever I went out to a pub to see a band the bassist would usually have one - that or or a Rick. Jazz basses were rarer. So I will forever associate Fender Precisions with PUB ROCK, leather jackets and power chords... and I suppose treat them with indifference.

My favourite P-bass player will always be Colin Hodgkinson



Great tip, thanks, would love to go and see him play.

Valve amp, Hiwatt on Live at Leeds, and, more importantly in my opinion, are the 4x12s. Ported 15s and modern hi-fi type 10s will sound different to the largely mid range the 4x12s gave.

Not having read the Whotabs thing (excellent as it is - I will one day!) John went on to more esoteric speaker configurations (Sun etc) after this period.

Greg

Uninitiated here, what do the piezos do?

I think its great.

These old guitars are interesting for their history not because they are like those in the catalogues, there are loads of Precisions in excellent condition due to hardly any use. Basses, especially Precisions, are tools of a trade and I prefer it when they're used as such. If they need modifying to perform as required, then they need to be modified. I agree it must have been carried out a long while ago and yet no-one has reverted it to 4 strings.

I wonder what music he played to cause him to go to so much trouble? I wonder how much musical pleasure this old bass was able to give.

(Having said that, its a bit of a bodge so he could have gone to a little more trouble!)

Might upset some people if you modify a 50s bass. Could always get a more modern Precision, they look the same after all! Definitely Frankenstien on Live at Leeds, it was white in those days so there's an easy start. However that's in reply to the original sound question.

To look the part I think the mopst distinctive is the Thunderbird body and Precision neck basses (didn't he call them 'Fenderbirds'?) made for him by his favourite luthier - name escapes me. Doubt you'll find one of those and if you do it'll be £50k and in competition with some Hard Rock Cafe. However the reverse body was his fave look and, I think, will be better than a Precision (for which you'd need to find the pickup cover).

Soundwise its Rotosound Swing Bass strings, plectrum on some ( Magic Bus, Can't Explain etc) and fingers on the others - You'll have to put your ear to find which.

You'll have so much fun in a Who Tribute band, I'd love to do it. I grew up with Entwhistle in my ears, he was my earliest and biggest influence.

"I've said this many times, and in many places: in 40 years, I've never met a neck-heavy Precision."

I have two, one better than the other, both neck heavy. The better of the two is fine, but relies on the friction of the strap on my shirt. The Jaydee just sits perfectly, no tugging at the shirt. Compared to this the Fender is neck heavy.

[quote name='OldGit' post='668954' date='Nov 29 2009, 10:32 AM']MarlowDK may disagree with you. [/quote]

Think how good he'd be on a Jaydee!

Interesting thread. Of course these basses are the classic design and the result of inspired vision all those years ago.

Basic design for unskilled hands, crude construction (only the neck and neck pocket requiring any accuracy), simple and robust, the most popular ever made. If there's a car comparison its a Ford Model T.

Compare the classiness of Jamerson with the rattle and growl of Entwhistle, we know they're the same instrument but an example of the range of sound. The Precision sound has stood the test of time and is perfect for providing punch weight and definition to be heard clearly in the mix.

The neck is a wide handful, slowing play down and I find them the most fiddly to set up. Constantly going back to reach perfection, especially intonation. These don't play thensleves like some modern basses, they need work.

However, despite crinkly tin bridge, loads of sustain, deep tones and punch, but often give flat spots half way up the G string.

The bridge is right back near the end of the body and so this brings the end of the neck nearer the player. Despite this they are neck heavy.

There are better guitars around but these are iconic, classic and will get the job done as well as you can play it. Not perfect, not the best but you have to have deep pockets to buy better.

Unless you slap. Not great for slap.

THey might be making it today but hte wood would have been seasoned for, maybe, a couple of years. This is normal for anything made from wood of any quality at all otherwise it will crack if you keep it indoors.

What settles after you buy a guitar?


Greg

Not sure how convincing the science is about all this. All woods are sealed and so any moisture content change is going to be very slow. But having said that it took 4 days of being in a cold basement for the neck on my Jaydee to need adjustment to the truss rod (slackening - only to need retightening a week after I got it home).

There are theories of vibrations doing things to woods and instruments used by orchestral string players seem to have a minimum age of ~100 years. I've had my Jaydee as only bass for over 20 years but I'm not sure I've noticed any change during that time. Its wonderful but if its changed its been too slow for me to notice.

I now have 2 Precisions, one from '77 the other with a neck from '78 and a new body. The one with the old body sounds much richer, but then I'm sure there are greater differences are in the pick-ups. Certainly any difference will be lost in the mix.

Whereas the sublties may be noticed in acoustic instruments to the trained ear surely they must be pretty well lost on an electrical instrument with all the paraphenalia of pick-ups, cable, connections, amplifiers, speakers, room acoustics etc let alone trying to be heard above a drum kit and an egotistical guiarist.

The important thing is to play it!

Here's a couple more typical sounds:

Mr Pink - Level 42, Mark King, Jaydee Supernatural

I Got a Feelin' - The Beatles, Paul McCartney, Hofner H500/1

Magic Bus (Live at Leeds) - The Who, John Entwhistle, Fender Precision slab body

Teen Town - Weather Report, Jaco, Fender Jazz

Fish Out of Water - Yes, Chris Squire, Rickenbacker 4001/3(?)

OK, the Magic Bus sound isn't so typical but if you want to know how a picked Precision can growl... it also allows someone to post a fingered Precision with flats (any Jamerson track)

Verdine is a great musician, big part of my early bass practice routines.

I would lay a bet on flat wounds. No doubt DI, very clean playing (so maybe wind the action up a little and cut fingernails!).

Couldn't guess at the pickup though, someone with more Jazz Bass experience than I will have to advise on this.

Nice and simple, but classy.

I know this isn't really a good discussion but, interesting how the neck broke but not the neck joint. For some (I'm sure very poor) reason we looked at bass smashing on Youtube and its amazing how much grief the neck joint takes before it gives, if ever. On one the body pieces separated first.

[quote name='joegarcia' post='655613' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:13 AM']Unbelievable. I would have said yes in a flash but I have just today traded it with Gareth for his SVT-II. Don't worry though Gareth, the amps great.
Would you consider a sale for the P, or perhaps a P/X with my '86 CIJ 70's reissue Jazz?[/quote]


Shame, not much would tempt a trade, a pre-EB MM is something that would. Hope you like the SVT. Still would like the MM though.


Greg

[quote name='joegarcia' post='593167' date='Sep 8 2009, 05:50 PM']Bump.
After 70's Fender P's with maple boards in black or natural too.[/quote]

How about this, totally original, still with ashtray/guides etc, 1977, plays perfectly and sounds fabulous. Very rich growl.

I'll take the 2.5XL for £170, if you still have it


Greg

Am I allowed to post this?

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIhJDgC5dQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waIhJDgC5dQ[/url]

Wow, after 33 pages is there anything left?

I love my valve hybrid, I have always used Rotosound Swing bass strings, I have an old Fender which is lovely, and I've seen fabulous bass players sounding fabulous with horrible sounds.

Excess gets to me. 15 string basses (are they still considered a bass?), walls of equipment, exotic woods used for nothing other than having them, opinions which can seemingly tell the difference between thin and thick finishes and multi-bass ownership (unless the person is a collector).

The biggest one for me, though, is the opposite to excess, its lazy bass players. I recommend going to see the Wilko Johnson band and learning from Norman Watt-Roy. I'm not talking about busy playing, rather imagination, intelligent thought about what sounds right for that bit of the piece and excellent technique.

Of all the ancient legends Jools has had on recently (Andy Williams, Smokey Robinson) who should hang up their microphones, Gladys was, as you say, sensational.

'Times Like These' is a great song but it was done even better by another legend on Jools' show a few months back, forgotten his name now, bit name though!

I love Jools' show, we play 'spot the best musician' for each show.

Glad to see Norman Watt-Roy get so much support through this thread, he is absolutely fabulous. If you want to check him out go onto the Wilko Johnson website and go and catch him in Wilko's band for the price of a couple of pints in your local small venue. Watching Norman is an experience every bass player should be subjected to. He doesn't stop playing the whole night through, and I mean playing, not accompanying. He is an extension of his Jazz bass, every pluck of harmonics, every nuance and chord is expressed through his body. You have to go and see him to understand, if you haven't already.

Not the best the country has produced in all history, perhaps (I'm sure players can do certain things better) but so entertaining, so musical, such a player.

Surprised there's so few supporters of Mark King, one of the most influential the UK has produced.

Overall, legend status, John Entwhislte.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='639066' date='Oct 28 2009, 01:50 PM']Don't think of it this way, read the rest of the thread. And check what sensitivity, and power ratings mean. And how the watt rating of speakers means absolutely nothing to the sound.[/quote]


I understand about sensitivity etc, that's not what I was saying. Have you ever tried running powerful speakers with a tiny amp? Works just like I said. For volume, multi-speakers, lower impeance (with valves) higher sensitivity etc all contributes.

I have the same problem, the Trace 4x10 is a lump. However I love it and won't change it for anything. So, buy a small 2x10 for practice or whatever and just use the 4x10 for gigs etc. You can't replace cabinet volume, smaller, shallower cabs will not sound the same and you will not be satisfied. Using the 2x10 will be fine as you know you can plug the 4x10 in whenever you feel the need.

If you really want to splash out, buy a 2x10 combo (Hartke etc) part paid for by flogging the Peavey and use it all the time, with the 4x10 as an extension when needed.

[quote name='jmsjabb' post='637311' date='Oct 26 2009, 08:36 PM']I have an Ashdown ABM C100 300 EVO bass amp which has a small fan in the back to cool the heat sink on the power supply. This is on all the time and I only use the amp at up to 1/4 power, and I don't ever overdrive it. I am finding the fan noisy and want to try and hide it. If I bought another of the same fan and wired it in series, would this mean both would run at half speed, half noise but the same air movement?
Ant other suggestions?[/quote]


No. The fan is designed to shift a certain amount of air at a certain speed. Halving the speed is likley to knock the air movement down by much more than half as the fan approaches its stall point. You'll reduce the noise though!

The propellor type fans are the least efficient and most noisy. Scroll or centrifugal fans are much better for noise and air movement but are more expensive. Unless the bearings are noisy, replacihng with another propellor fan will solve little.

If you're feeling really clever you could wire a thermostat in line with the fan so it only comes on when needed (ie never when practicing at home!) or even put it on a manual switch. The issue will be finding out the temperature it should kick in at (or remebering to switch the fan on for gigs!)

[quote name='Boneless' post='539128' date='Jul 13 2009, 08:53 AM']But aren't drivers supposed to sound better if feeded an amount of power closer to their RMS rating?
In other words, if you have a 4x10" with 150W RMS drivers (600W total), wouldn't they respond better with 200W instead of 50W? Or does it depend on the driver? I find that my Ashdown 4x10" needs to be kind of cranked to start sounding "alive". Same thing for the Ampeg 8x10", there was a gig where I had a Peavey head + Ampeg 8x10" as a backline, and I had to keep the volume really down for several reasons (but REALLY low, most probably under 50W), and my tone was extremely dull. And trying to compensate with EQ was useless, since the cab seemed not to budge from that lifeless tone.[/quote]

Just a quickie about matching speakers and amp power. Consider them like the chassis and engine of a car.

A 10W amp going into 500W speakers would be like running a 10bhp go-kart engine in a 500bhp Le Mans racer. It will hardly move it.

The other way round, a 500W amp into a 10W speaker will, like a 500bhp Le Mans racer engine in a go-kart, blow the thing to pieces at anything above tick-over. 10W into a 10-20W speaker gives enough headroom for safety without too heavy a burden and it will go like a go-kart. 500W into 500-1000W of speakers will fly like a Le Mans racer.