mario_buoninfante

1 hour ago, itu said:

What do you mean by this, can you open this up a bit?

It's just an idea, didn't even fully thought it through, but I feel like the "strings wrapped around the tuning machine" scenario might be considered less of a "fixed point" compared to the ball-end that's on a headless bass.
I believe the tuning machine system might allow for more "micro-movements" than the headless system (eg strings holding/releasing).

Again, all just a gut feeling, I'm literally thinking about this as I'm writing

this seems useful (haven't checked it properly yet though)

https://www.daddario.com/globalassets/pdfs/accessories/tension_chart_13934.pdf

3 hours ago, itu said:

If you try the same set of say 40-100 on a headed or headless bass, the tension is equal.

Absolutely, my point was exactly this, that strings play a factor.
The strings I have on my Spirit feel stiffer than any other strings I have played, and smaller movements/bends provide bigger changes in pitch than what I get on my other basses strung with different strings.
I'm not saying it's because they are double-end strings, I'm just saying that 2 different sets of strings might feel totally different.
Surely due to all the factors you mentioned.
I also believe that having 2 ball-ends is different than 1 ball-end and a "sort of a knot" at the headstock though.

But here's the interesting thing about all this.

The fact that there hasn't been any scientific comparison between 2 "identical" (as much as possible, since wood is never gonna be exactly the same) basses, still makes me think there are too many variables to account for before one can jump to any definitive conclusion. This at least when talking headless vs standard design.
Also, as I think somebody has pointed out above too, another big factor is the strings. Headless basses have double-ball strings that in my (limited) experience have a different tension.
On my Spirit XT-2 I played Steinberger and Elites double-ball strings and they both seem to have more tension than the standard single-ball strings (played on different basses of course).

The bit about chambered/semi-acoustic basses, where they describe the sound characteristics, seems to be more intuitive, for lack of better words.
 

I'd say keep them if you like their current sound and are sure it fits with the band's sound.
Maybe, if you have the possibility try a quick recording at home just because amp sound and recorded sound might be quite different.
And I'd bring the new strings with me, just in case

On 14/01/2023 at 16:00, Baloney Balderdash said:

Yeah, I never understood why anyone would have their high D and G string sound even thinner, and the low E and D string to sound even more boomy in comparison.

 

But then again it is a known fact that Leo Fender liked to be contrary and do stuff the complete opposite way of everyone else, P pickup orientation defying logic and common sense...

there wasn't really that big of a crowd of luthiers at the time he made that decision though...

I was thinking maybe you could come up with something like the solution on the Kubicki basses, where on the E string there are 2 extra lower frets.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=kubicky+factor&t=newext&atb=v356-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fmedias.audiofanzine.com%2Fimages%2Fthumbs3%2Fkubicki-factor-408412.jpg

2 hours ago, dclaassen said:

Good reading. My Spectracore is chambered with a bolt on neck and basswood body. It’s strung with low tension flats. Sustain is not great, but it produces a really nice acoustic bass type sound…very nice for jazz.

I really like the Spectracore, the fretless one in particular (I think there's a fretted version too, right?).

But, I never actually played one.

1 hour ago, LeftyJ said:

who attributes that to the stiffness of his composite necks.

And in fact the early/original Steinberger were made out of carbon fiber.

I have a Spirit XT-2, that is passive and made of wood of course, and the things that I immediately notice when I pick it up compared to a Spector Legend and a G&L L2000 Tribute, is the incredible sustain and the roundness of the sound.
The low E is really fat, but all the strings are well balanced. And in fact this (and similar basses) are often used in reggae/dub.
I always empirically attributed the really long sustain to the fact that is neck true, but for whatever reason (I'm mainly thinking out loud here) I also feel that the small body helps in this case as if there is less mass to dampen the sound.
But again, this lat comment in particular is more of a sensation that I have, I never even stopped and properly thought about it.
One thing I can say for sure is that I feel a lot the vibration of this bass when I play it, and I like that

On 13/01/2023 at 07:41, SumOne said:

..... Apart from the thing none of them discussed - the look is just a step away from keytars! I'm not fussed, but a lot of people are, that must limit sales and its probably why not many get made. 

More than few headless have a standard body though

and a great John Martyn too

So, I'm going back to Italy for few days, and I decided to check out few instruments I left there when I moved to the UK and among them there is this little guy (see picture below).
Bought it ~15y ago, when I was playing right-handed basses upside down (I'm lefty). And I really like the sound, fat and deep, good for finger style and pick as well, but the look is not exactly my cup of tea.
So, I was thinking about selling it, but of course that would probably mean bringing it back here with me and that may be a bit of a PITA from a logistic point of view.
Also, I haven't seen many around here in the UK, neither in person nor on forums/reverb/etc., but that could be a good thing from a seller point of view

So, I thought I'd ask here what do people think about these, any thoughts, opinions, comments?

3 hours ago, itu said:

Steinberger talked about his findings back then (ghost note issues etc.) but I do not find it anywhere. Someone could be brave enough and do some excavation. His comments were very interesting, not only because his background was design and furniture.

Probably not exactly the article you were thinking about, but...

https://www.musicradar.com/news/how-ned-steinberger-redesigned-the-bass-world

3 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

They all sat on the fence over headless basses, didn't they!

Only Pete Skjold got close to saying anything meaningful on the topic.

And for those that had never built one, have they never seen, examined or played one?

 

At least they were more vocal on the effects of chambering.

And almost a unified voice on custom builds, with advice that mostly mirrors what you'd hear from BC on the subject. 

 

Would've been funny if they'd had Ned Steinberger in there!

I have to admit I found all the comments about headless basses quite good. Some didn't quite answer the question, that's fair to say, but I found them interesting nonetheless.
I'd have loved to have Steinberger there too. Afaik he considers himself more of a designer than a luthier (in line with his background), but he influenced the bass world as much as, if not more than, some of these big names.
 

Interesting interview I found while navigating the internet   

https://www.bassgearmag.com/luthiers-round-table-7/
 

they still come by default with some basses

https://www.bassgearmag.com/ibanez-introduces-two-new-btb-singlecut-basses/

It seems like it's not used, but on sale.
The interesting thing is that on sale at GuitarGuitar is basically the same as the standard price at Thomann.

1 hour ago, JottoSW1 said:

There's a used Sadowsky Metro Express Fretless reduced at Guitar Guitar atm. 

Wish I could afford Yr Spector but I've just bought a Guild Starfire. A very different beast to my usual suspects but I absolutely love it.

Thanks for the tip! I'll have a look (and that's it for now ).
The Guild Starfire looks really interesting, I only discovered it few months ago and is a really interesting bass!

2 hours ago, DGBass said:

I can't think of any pre-amp from any manufacturer i've played through that i'd ever considered being a flat voicing with all knobs at noon

As a preamp pedal the Laney Digbeth turns out to be quite flat, see the post I linked above.

I know it's not a measurement done with pro equipment, but it gives you a pretty good idea anyway.

And the audio examples seem to confirm.

worth checking the SPL levels too, because regardless the impedance, if the SPL is low you might have problems (really low volume) with phones/tablets, especially old ones.

12 minutes ago, Brucegill said:

I used to always go buy this rule of thumb. But recently bought some Audeze that are stupidly low impedance (12-16 or something). Sound amazing with everything I’ve used from pro to consumer. Go figure?! 

Ehehehe.
Yeah, there are always exceptions, that's absolutely true!
Tbh, just recently I decided to take a break from my Sennheiser HD-25 75R (that I have been using pretty much every day of my life, at home, studio and work for 15y) and started using some KRK KNS 8400, that only after the fact I realised were 36R (way lower than what I would have thought).

I have to say the sound good both with my phone and mixer.
BTW I still love my Sennheiser, but I wanted to have another reference, and it turns out that the KRK are really good because they tend to emphasise a little bit the mid-range, and (as long as one's aware of it) that is a useful thing when working in studio
 

I would go for something higher than 32R, but <= 250R. This way you can deal both with consumer and pro equipment.
Low impedance HP don't sound great with pro stuff, and tend to be super loud too.

2 hours ago, bass_dinger said:

It seems to me that some basslines are very easy to create and play - U2 songs, perhaps. 

U2's bass lines are definitely less challenging then others at the first sight, but one should keep in mind how much sound and feel play a role in Adam Clayton's style.
Just recently I got Achtung Baby (second hand CD) from a charity shop, and gosh the bass sounds massive!!!!!
Also, some lines are really creative and have a great feel.
Executing them is not impossible for sure, but delivering the same sound and feeling ain't that easy though.

I know this is probably not a solution for you now, but I recently travelled from London to Turin by train and that allowed me to bring my bass without any particular hurdle.
Generally speaking the journey is more expensive than flying, but if bought months in advance tickets can be reasonable.
Eurostar London-Paris and then train Paris-Turin, return can be around 150£, and no issues with luggages.
It does take 8h though

3 hours ago, Franticsmurf said:

My Steinberger Spirit has a bolt on neck, but the body size may not be what you're looking for.

 

Oh man, I'm not currently looking for a bass (actually selling one), and I have a Spirit XT-2 that I like, but the XZ has (almost) always been the one I wanted!
I like them headless, but I like having a standard body though, and the XZ to me is kind of iconic, it symbolises an era.
Just so rare to find, especially left handed!

Great bass!