Paolo85

1 hour ago, NickA said:

Sounds awful, like an overdamped thuddy p bass.

 

Some strange idea of how a double bass sounds.

 

Where is the lovely change in timbre you get during the decay of a double bass note.

 

 

Well, let me say that I aegree with you that the DB's sound is more complex than this. But, as you said in a previous post, not all DBs sound the same. You also mentioned that you like some mwah in your DB, suggesting you maybe have a certain idea of what is the kind of sound you like.

In my opinion, from a functional standpoint, the DB traditionally was not there for the listener to enjoy the timbre as it developed through times. If we look at classic recordings, especially as players were using gut strings, the DB sound was there to appear quickly with a boom, and go away very quickly, providing that swinging feeling like an elefant stomping it's way through.

Granted, my ears are not very good, but if I look at these two classic examples in the mix

Or even at this better-recorded example

I don't hear anything particularly extraordinary that leaves me in awe about how the tone changes as the note dies. What is extraordinary to me as an electric bass player (on top of the basically tone per se) is the massive thump and the swinging feel coming from the strong attack and fast decay.

After all, there must be  reason if Leo Fender, as he first conceived the P bass as a portable DB, installed a mute under the bridge.

And it is no coincidence that if you look at Anthony Jackson live with Petrucciani, he is pretty much palm muting all the time in mid tempos.

By the way, one of the best examples IMO in terms of getting a "swinging" sound from an electric bass I found it at the beginning of this video

For what I understand, there's not much playing with effects, just chunky tapewounds, fretted bass, neck pickup, plucking on the neck and above all a mute, as @jd56hawk does

10 hours ago, bremen said:

 

Closest I got was from holding the bass vertical so the side of my index finger pulled -"plucked" isn't the right word - the string, over the 12th fret. Still didn't have that blossom that Paolo describes though.

Tried that. Combined with a high action it really gets you very close! But it is from my point of view not very practicable

@pete.young I think it makes a very credibile tone. Very good. But I agree with JPJ, the attack/sustain combination is very different from that of a DB so it gives a different vibe. You can hear quite a bit of fretless mwah on the high register, with the notes blossoming instead of decaying.

1 hour ago, dclaassen said:

I think you are close enough. You can really chase your own tail trying to get an "upright" sound. Most folks would accept a thumpy, Middy, muted kind of tone. My belief is that most folks who want an upright sound really want the visual appeal of the double bass on the band stand. To me, this is going back about 300 years in technology. I don't see keyboardists hauling an acoustic piano (harpsichord?) around, nor do many guitarists bring along a lute. Leo had a really good idea...go with that, mute it, and you will be fine...

Well, the harpsichord arguably has taken a beat from acoustic piano. The problem with it was that technically you had no dynamics. But the acoustic piano is still going strong.

Any time I have seen live a traditional jazz band playing with an electric bass, I was hopeful but then I was ultimately disappointed. Admittedly, those bass players were clearly not trying to get the upright sound, so I don't know how I would feel about somebody with a Mustang, a mute and tapes live.

Maybe I would like it. But it is interesting that, after some 70 years since the first P bass, despite searching, I have personally yet to find a successful traditional jazz bass player that imitates the traditional sound with the electric. Maybe Anthony Jackson live with Michel Petrucciani, but only to an extent, and it is more of a case of him being already famous than him becoming famous by doing that.

I may have missed one or some important example (would be glad to learn about them) but to me this suggests that an electric bass could maybe do a good imitation but cannot beat an upright at its own game.

To my ears best examples of jazz with electric bass come from player that do embrace the difference of the electric sound and find a context where it fits in (eg Mark Egan with Joe Beck and Steve Swallow with Scofield)

I think it is very good. I personally have come to suspect that fretted basses may work better for an upright sound (with some tweaks such as a mute) as it is very difficult to avoid the mwah on the G string on a fretless. Still, you do lose some "upright elements" for the fact that they are fretted so I guess one has to chose the best of two evils

1 hour ago, Rosie C said:

 

 

 

Sometimes hanging around here I wonder if I'm not a proper bass player!  

I once saw an interview with Marcus Miller, I believe with SBL. If I understood correctly, he pretty much said he had only one bass as he came up as a musician. He said that was normal for NY session men as they would move around with public transport. Also, he basically implicitly admits he was not super learned on eq. When Sadowsky installed his bass/treble boost-only preamp in his bass, he did not fully realised that scooping the mids was making it more difficult to come out in the mix. Instead of putting his head around it, he just instinctively started playing differently, using slap everywhere.

I guess he would not be a big gun on Basschat, but his tickets at Ronnie Scott's go for £100-£160.

For me, neither of those. In an ideal world, I would go for say three-four basses in the £350-£700 range, maybe with some modifications in some cases.

My modest opinion is that for a P or a J spending amything more than £400-£500 is not useful for practical purposes. But spending the extra-money compared to a HB gives access to more reasonable (or low) weigh, great tuners and better choice of pickups.

As for other, less common types of basses, there are less options so maybe it gets a bit more pricy. For semihollows a la Starfire, the next notch up after the Harley Benton HB60 cost £600+

I never liked much the sound of the (cheap) Ibanez Soundgears I have had, but I assume that in the £600+ range there would be better options available.

Still, I doubt I would feel the need to go for the top of the range. There's always the option to swap pickups/preamp...

I have a GB54 with J-M pickup. The J neck pickup in mine is brilliant. The preamp (which admittedly may be different in your bass) does a lot to the sound. Makes it neater, punchier in a way, but less growl. Do you have a push-pull knob to switch to passive? If so, maybe you could try and see if passive it sounds closer to a traditional J.

The problem, if you wanted that passive sound, is that - at last in my bass - there was no passive tone control.

I think that generation of Corts sounded good and is not in production anymore. If it does not work for you maybe the best thing would be to sell to somebody who is interested and buy something more "traditional" (say a Squier CV J)

To be honest, I am quite late for the New Bass Day. It's not new. I bought it weeks ago. But I did not know what to think until last week. Unlike many here, I am not necessarily a fan of Harley Benton. The ones I had, I sold, as their quirks (eg ridiculous weigh) more than offset the positives. And looking at comments on other basses, I am uninterested in most of their offering.

But when this semihollow short scale came for sale here on Basschat, I could not resist the temptation to give it a go.

At first, I thought it was another quirky bass, good "for the money" but not to be used in practice. The strings do not align with the pole pieces, and the output from the E was weak.

In desperation, after trying three different sets of strings, I tried to align the E exactly with the pole piece, even though this leaves the G quite far away from it.

Oddly this solved the problem completely. The E is nice and clear. And the G... is also nice and clear for some reason! I am confused, but happy.

I am left with a bass that sounds good, has a good neck, good fretwork, and oddly stays in tune more than most cheap basses I have had. I was quite worried because the floating bridge but it is nothing to worry about. Losen the strings, move it, tune. Done. All doable, if my tuner is to be trusted.

Despite the problem with the E,  I have mostly been playing this bass since I bough it. I have discovered the magic of a semihollow. Getting enough volume to play over tracks even when I cannot be bothered to plug in to the amp. The strong initial attack and limited sustain. The short-scale string tension and thumpy sound, but in a long-scale body that does not make me feel cramped. The low weigh. And there is something to be said for a neck pickup in that position, though I am not sure it beats the P/Mustang position

Just great!

I bought this short-scale bass here a few months ago. It is, in my opinion, is the best sounding bass I have. Imagine a good P bass but fatter due to the short scale, but still plenty of clarity. (Or for simplicity imagine a good Mustang). It also has a supercomfortable neck. And it is extremely good looking.

But as it turns out, I cannot play short scale basses (unless of the longer semihollow variety), I feel cramped and my back hurts. So this is getting little use and it is now up for sale.

It is in good condition. Some small scratches which I have tried to capture in pictures. Some clearer/darker bits in the neck - I had the exact same issue in a Jazz VM I bought a while ago. But does not look at all dodgy to me, I would assume it has to do with light  The finish is there, the neck is stable.

Tuning stability is helped by the hipshot licensed ultralight I have installed. I put them there as, like most jaguars, especially lightweight ones such as this, it was a massive neck diver.

The tuners have helped a lot. As you can see in the video I have uploaded, it mostly stays in place with a good strap. It is still neck heavy, would slowly slide down if you move around for a while. This was bothering me as I play with floating thumb and I am obsessed with perfect balance but I must say this bass is no more neck heavy than any lightweight P bass with normal tuners. 

I bought it for 220 pounds posted. The small price increase reflects the Hipshot tuners. Note that I have left the original screws in, up to you if you want to remove them and maybe fill. I like it as it is.

Strings are Newtone Diamond nickels with round core, 45-105. Not fresh anymore but they sound great and they are superflexible.

Pick up from Bromley, or I can meet in central London but I am not there very often.

8 hours ago, Daveee said:

I'm definitely going to concentrate on my technique rather than just buy a different bass but I must admit I'm curious about the Ibanez mezzo which is a medium scale at 32".  Anyone tried one? 

 

I like the idea of short scales and from what I've heard the sound would appeal to me but I can deny they look like toys.  Maybe a medium scale would be a decent compromise?

I have a mezzo. Incredibly comfortable but IMO has nothing of the sound of the short scale - which should be fatter/more boomy than a long scale in theory.

I play it with treble at minimum, 45-105 gauge, but it still sounds thinner than my P bass with tonerider pickup and 45-100 strings.

To be honest, I now mostly play a short scale semihollow, but my instinct would not be to learn from scratch on a short scale unless there are specific reasons to do it. I would learn on the most commonly used type of bass and then change once you know with a bit more certainty what do you want from a bass

27 minutes ago, thegummy said:

 

 

It's really because I want to do a bit of comparison between flats and rounds using a P. I find that I can only get a true feel of comparing 2 instruments by going between them over a decent amount of time; always given me more realistic comparisons than comparing recordings or just comparing in a shop and if I just switch strings on the same bass I need to do a setup which takes a bit of time, especially since my P has the old school truss rod adjustment at the bottom of the neck.

 

 

Well, as others have said, the neck pickup on a J is not in the same place as in a P. This would have a big impact on the sound and therefore, unfortunately, would not give you a helpful tool to compare flats and rounds

14 hours ago, Daveee said:

 

Just out of interest are there any basses (apart from the hofner) which stay slim all the way up. 

 

The Harley Benton HB60 (which I have) and, reportedly, the Guild Starfire remain narrow. I am not 100% sure they remain as narrow as the nut, but they remain fairly narrow. As others have mentioned, the neck expands to accommodate the "usual" 19mm string spacing at the bridge. So any bass with tighter string spacing would expand less, and you normally can check a bass' string spacing online.

As for the HB60 and the Guild, they are short-scale basses with a long-scale body. This means the 12th fret is closer to the nut than in a long-scale bass, which makes it even easier to reach there. On the other hand, these are definitely not the sort of bass that people who play with their pinky on the E after the 12th fret want to buy.

Ah! I learnt recently that Duke Ellington recorded a long suite exclusively for Queen Elizabeth. It was never released during his lifetime. It is not known if the Queen also held "listening parties".

8 hours ago, Daveee said:

I have to pretty much take it off the neck and bend my wrist more than is healthy/comfortable in order to get my little finger on the E string. I appreciate it's hard to visualise.  As I said, I'm seeing a teacher soon so will hopefully sort it out then. 

...let me add that in my opinion there is nothing wrong with taking the thumb off the neck for a quick passage if you really have to reach that high G on the E string. Assuming you end up having to play something that requires you to use the pinky there and cannot be played on the A string, I imagine it would be just one fast phrase every now and then, not a repeated groove, so low risk of repetitive strain injury

7 hours ago, Acebassmusic said:

 

 if I have to attain notes above the 12th fret on the E I usually move positions to lower down the neck on the A string as it's more comfortable to reach.

This. I have never encountered a song in which it was actually necessary to play above the 12th fret with my pinky. Granted, I am not a consumed professional, but I bet you can play the entire discography of most bands without having to do that. I imagine it may be a thing with some fusion shredders playing solos. But that's not necessarily a beginner's concern. Still, good to take this as an opportunity to look at technique and as an excuse to buy another bass!

6 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

One thing AI can do is write music that humans can't play. This certainly already applies to sequencers DAWS already, but is AI more likely to come up with, say, shred guitar solos that are physically impossible even with an 8 or 10-string guitar.

 

Scarier still, is AI going to be able to come up with melodically satisfying shred guitar solos that are actually listenable?

Many years ago I was reading a book by some economists on AI ("prediction machines", Agrwal, Gans, Goldfarb).

The context and applications they were discussing were completely different, but the argument they were making I believe may apply to music.

Their idea was that AI should not be seen as something that does something on its own, but something that is managed by a human, which will then make the fundamental act of deciding whether the outcome of AI is satisfying, and to what extent.

I think it is obvious that AI will in certain circumstances generate good solos. The opposite would be almost impossible for the law of big numbers and as allegedly millions of monkeys typing on laptops for years would eventually write a Shakespeare play - or whatever.

But then there needs to be a human that hears the AI solo and go "yes, this is really something that should be packaged and communicated to others". This human can be an artist, or somebody that makes music for more pedestrian uses such as jingles or Taylor Swift albums, and the choices/outcomes would be different.

In that sense, I am skeptical about songs entirely made by AI in one go having legs. I see more possibilities for songs that combine different parts made by AI - or maybe AI tools that make edits easy.

But then, when we get to the point of replacing musicians (as in people who play an instrument), it is more complex. For some purposes this will happen. But Adam Neely in his video made a very strong argument: would you watch a football match played by AI?

Would you go to an AI concert? If you go to a concert, are you there to hear sounds (music, which AI may be able to do) or to watch fellow humans as they generate the sounds?

Never tried a Bronco. Somebody in the forum was saying good things about the Harley Benton PB-shorty, a short scale precision that costs 85 pounds+postage at Thomann

On 04/05/2024 at 10:08, Hellzero said:

He has released 4 albums and, strangely, as amazing and musical he is in his videos, these are a real pain in the derrière to listen to, just simply boring.

 

To be fair, he released three of those albums in three years in 2015-18, he would have been in his twenties and straight after Berklee (one BTW was meant to be an instructional product). Then he did youtube full time and subsequent releases are just a collage of what he recorder for youtube videos. It seems he is right now planning to relax on his youtube work and do something different. So hopefully in the coming years we'll see what he can do as a mature musician. He is working with metal guitarist Bernth and has announced a tour. He has recorded two songs with Bernth already (gathered together as a release named Delusional on youtube) so chances are the first thing we'll hear from him will be a metal album. I think Bloodstream is very good and the instrumental version of Delusional is alright. I imagine and hope a full (and mostly instrumental) album may come out of it. I also hope he'll move back to more jazzy stuff soon

When I listen to (good) examples of AI tracks I think "wow, sounds almost human, but not actually good and not worth my time". But then I think the same thing when I hear Oasis or Taylor Swift, so it's difficult for me to form an opinion

33 minutes ago, DocTrucker said:

 

I've got two 4 string basses; a Squire Jazz Vintage modified, and a project pbass made from a short scale Harley Benton that's now sporting the neck from a bronze series BC Rich Warlock, which I never got along with the body.

 

I really like both, but for some reason tunes seem easier to play on the PBass. Is it common to find a specific neck shape makes playing easier or is it more likely that I need to take a closer look at action etc?

So, is the P bass a short scale? That would make it easier to play for most people.

Else, the answer could be both. Some people work better with neck of a certain shape. But unless the two basses have similar action, nut cut at a similar height (very important), and strings with similar tension, you'll never know for sure it's the neck shape that makes the playing easier.

Also, the difference between P and J is roughly 4mm in terms of nut width. But there are other elements such as the type of frets, thickness back to front, or the type of finish that you may find more or less comfortable, and not all Ps and Js are the same in that respect.

Back to the OP's question, I found myself in a similar situation lately with backache issues, on days when I was practicing hard in view of starting to play with other people.

Much like the OP, I have realised that "normal" short scale basses do not work for me.

But I have found, at good prices here on the classifieds, two alternatives that do work

-Ibanez mezzo 32 scale. It is just a good compromise. Plus, like most soundgears, it has an extremely comfortable shape, it is very light, and has a great balance

-Harley Benton HB60.. and I imagine other short-scale semihollow could be even better. Unlike normal short scale basses, these are not small. They are as long as a P bass, because the body extends way after the bridge. So you get the short-scale comfort for the fretting hand, but the bass is positioned somewhat similarly to a P in terms of where the hands fall.

The bass is light, but it is a neck diver. However, because of the very wide body, the plucking hand's forearm can rest on the body when the bass is on the strap, without resulting in a funny angle for the wrist. This keeps the bass in position. To be honest, I still think the HB does not feel amazing. I use a dual strap to make it work smoothly. But I tried an Aria semihollow in a shop last weekend, and the neck was so light that holding the body as described was a breeze. So I guess there are certainly options available (I imagine for example a guild starfire, which has a smaller nut width, and tuners, while big, could be replaced with hipshot licensed ultralight. But that's just a guess)

Hope this helps

I had one, I thought good but stupidly heavy. If I was to go for a 5-string again I'd probably try a HB B550 or something Ibanez

Lord, forgive them; they don't know what they're doing.