dlloyd

Some instruments (like the bass) are transposing to keep them on the staff, but that's not true of most. Some of it is to do with the history of the instruments and the standardisation of keys, but a lot of it is to do with simplicity of moving between instruments of the same family.

I started on woodwind instruments and, to a lesser extent, brass. I played clarinet in orchestras and had to carry two different instruments with me. One in Bb, which was my main instrument and one in A. Both were notated as per the fingering rather than the actual pitch. Those are really the main standard keys for the instrument that most people think of when you say clarinet, the soprano clarinet, but also the bass clarinet. You also get orchestral instruments in Eb (relatively common) (eg. sopranino clarinet and the alto clarinet) and D (same types but rare), Ab (piccolo clarinet), and G and F (basset horns).

There is also a C clarinet which is obsolete in orchestral music but you see in some Eastern European folk music. It sounds like crap.

The basic series of notes involving placing fingers over the holes (or on the main buttons on some) on a woodwind instrument is always referred to as being in the key of C. The tone of a clarinet and its ease of playing is optimised to the open key. As you move through the cycle of fifths, it gets progressively more difficult and the tone becomes more of a compromise. That's why we have Bb and A clarinets:

If you imagine it's easiest to play in C on a clarinet, with G, D and A being quite good for the sharp keys and F, Bb and Eb being quite good for the flat keys, this translates to a key range of G to Db for Bb clarinet (1# to 5b) and F# to C on A clarinet (6# to no # or b )... the two clarinets cover all bases really.

In theory, an accomplished clarinettist can move between all members of the clarinet family where needed and play equally well on each without having to relearn how to read for each new instrument.

My friend owns an antiques business... people phone him up to get valuations on stuff and he goes round to their houses and buys things, mostly militaria.

One time he was appraising some old stuff somewhere and noticed some gold records on the wall... turns out he was in the house of the mother of the bassist from EMF...

I know what you're thinking... that's unbelievable...

Except it's true.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1503873921' post='3361309']
"[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif]Mildred Lewis Rutherford (1852-1928) was for many years the historian for the United Daughters Of The Confederacy (UDC). In her book Truths Of History she stated that there were more slaveholders in the Union Army (315,000) than the Confederate Army (200,000). Statistics and estimates also show that about 300,000 blacks supported the Confederacy versus about 200,000 for the Union. Clearly the war would have been fought along different lines if it had been fought over slavery. " was all I quoted. [/font]
[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif]I had never heard of her before seeing that article. [/font]
[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif]In that, she is reported as saying the slaves were better fed and better cared for than the factory workers in the North. I doubt if either group were exactly happy about their lot in life, but then life in general was a deal harsher in the 1800s than nowadays. [/font]
[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif]Read up on some of the stuff that was gong down among the under-privileged (including slaves) in Britain at the time.[/font]
[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif]And now I really AM baling out.[/font]
[/quote]

I have heard of her.

Read this article... (ignore the title if you can.)

[url="http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/the_south_still_lies_about_the_civil_war/"]http://www.salon.com..._the_civil_war/[/url]

How about this...
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpJ0cyXbMbI[/media]

I honestly don't think it's changed that much... Anyone remember the fun we had here:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/50373-bnp-party-election-broadcastanyone-else-think-nick-griffin-seems-reallly-scary/page__hl__am1%20election

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503812504' post='3360962']
Thanks for the sentiment. I stand by my words though. You have reinforced my opinion.
[/quote]

I absolutely reject the notion that "intelligence" is an issue here. I, like millions of other people, could read music before I was ten... not because I'm clever, but because I went to music lessons. It's not difficult... it all comes down to wanting to do it and being willing to put in the practice.

If it's not relevant to you, then fine. But I would suggest to kids who have a dream of making a living as a professional musician that learning to read might be a good idea... it opens some doors in terms of paid gigs.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1503821928' post='3361002']
Aw... you had to go and spoil it!


I'm bowing out of this one - getting bit too serious for me. Sorry if I offended anyone's sensibilities.


SO sorry, but ya cant fight coincidence. A old friend of mine from Tennessee posted this on her facebook timeline today. Presumably because of all the fuss over civil war statuary etc.

[url="http://theferalirishman.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/just-so-we-are-clear.html?spref=fb&m=1"]http://theferalirish...ml?spref=fb&m=1[/url]
[/quote]

That's quite chilling to read. Using Mildred Lewis Rutherford as a credible source? This is a person who stated that African Americans were far happier under slavery than free. That That the Ku Klux Klan were the "very flower of Southern manhood"

[quote name='SpondonBassed' timestamp='1503741118' post='3360630']It always makes me wonder how intelligent people forget that they are intelligent and that not everyone can or indeed wants to reach the heights of intellectual achievement that they have. For clever folk it is an especially small minded way of looking at life. Don't you think?
[/quote]

I really have to address this. It's bullshit IMO.

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1503768101' post='3360823']
I fear I need to explain further for fear of accusation of elitism .
[/quote]

No, seriously... thanks. I'm reading up on him right now.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1503678199' post='3360286']
All around the world..?
[/quote]

In modern scores that you would see as a jazz/theatre/cruise, etc player, absolutely*. Italian tends to be just for classical music, but even then... Allegro, Andante,... it's not that difficult.

*(English speaking countries obviously... In France they would probably be annotated in French.)

[quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1503668858' post='3360178']
Yes it was high C. Alembic did the first low B for Jimmy Johnson in 1981 I think.
[/quote]

Are we talking about the first bass with a low B? Anthony Jackson had one built by Carl Thompson in 1975 apparently...

http://www.melvinleedavis.com/images/Contrabass%20Conception.pdf

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1503667509' post='3360162']
[url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Italian_musical_terms_used_in_English"]Wikipedia: List of Italian musical terms used in English ...[/url]

Not Latin, indeed, but it might as well be for lots of folks.
[/quote]

These are commonly replaced with English in modern scores.

Presumably unconsciously trying to avoid the A string?

You'll just have to practice moving in and out of that position until your brain gets it...

I reckon a lot of people use too much left hand tension.... the amount of pressure you should be putting on the back of the neck should be minimal, like not enough to make an impression if the back of the neck was made out of playdoh.

One thing I did to get rid of tension in the hands (my hands would cramp in the palm at the base of the thumb after a while of playing) was to practice for periods without touching the back of the neck... i.e. with my thumb "hovering" a few inches behind the neck, so I'm only touching the strings with my left hand... needs a little bit of bracing with the right forearm.

About ten years ago a very drunk me was invited by a very drunk Sonny T. (the bass player in this photo) for a jam in his hotel room in Rome. Both of us were too drunk to play.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1503566598' post='3359164']Officially it might have been all about slavery, but then you have to dig a little deeper into the history books to get a clearer picture of what was going on back then. Prior to the war there were many indications of the attempts by the North to take over control of Southern prime assets to help keep costs down to the Northern industrial machine.[/quote]

The "Lost Cause of the Confederacy". There have been a lot of revisionist attempts to deny that slavery was the root cause of the Civil War... it relies entirely on avoiding the actual speeches given by Confederate leaders and professional historians utterly reject it.

[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The winners write the history books. [/quote][/font][/color]

That notion, however often repeated, is false. [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Historians write the history books. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Edit: Here's a nice little blog article about this concept in relation to the Civil War... [/font][/color]https://pastexplore.wordpress.com/2016/02/15/bad-historical-thinking-history-is-written-by-the-victors/

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1503566181' post='3359158']
Depends where you come from North or South, but I take your point.
Never thought to ask while I lived in Tennessee, but I wonder if you can hang the Confederate States flag the wrong way up, like the Union Jack?
[/quote]

The stars would be upside down, so yes... doubt there would be any symbolism to doing that.

Edit: (talking about the battle flag, as discussed in this thread... the national flags have other cues that would make hanging them upside down unlikely)

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1503532957' post='3359026']
The Confederate Flag or Old Glory is more a symbol of "hold onto your Confederate money, boys, the South's gon' rise agin!" than much to do with white supremacists. I understand they are more into the classic Nazi swastika flags. [/quote]

The KKK use the confederate flag.

[quote]But as with most thing American it gets distorted via the UK and European media in general. For instance, it is pretty obvious from earlier comments here that just about everyone outside the States (and an awful lot of Northerners) think the Civil War was entirely about slavery.
[/quote]

It [i]was [/i]entirely about slavery. Anyone who thinks otherwise should read the Cornerstone Speech of Alexander Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy. In it he talks briefly about economic differences, tariffs, etc., but on the direct cause of secession and formation of the Confederacy, he is crystal clear:

"[i]The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. [/i]"

"[i]Our new government is founded [...] upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.[/i]"

"[i]With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system.[/i]"

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1503472377' post='3358431']
Any detroit era Motown.
[/quote]

I missed the 5 albums bit, so to expand:

1 - The Four Tops: Reach Out
2 - Marvin Gaye: What's Going On
3 - The Supremes: Supremes a Go Go
4 - Martha and the Vandellas: Dance Party
5 - Stevie Wonder: I Was Made to Love Her

Any detroit era Motown.

The 1-Uppers cover of the Smiths "How Soon Is Now" just makes me smile...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkPFWcyTylw[/media]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1503405898' post='3357942']
Sounds like the flag issue is a done deal already, and I don't know enough about the American civil war to comment anyway, although it has interested me for a long time. Perhaps this is time to read up a little more.
[/quote]

If you have Netflix the Ken Burns' Civil War multi-part documentary is on there. I can't recommend it enough.

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1503399783' post='3357854']
That's a bit rough. I like the Beatles. I suppose you had to be there at the time.
[/quote]

lol...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503394644' post='3357798']
Yes. Removing I don't have an issue with. Proudly displaying? I'm not sure. Destroying, I don't agree with. They're historical monuments regardless of any feeling.
[/quote]

There's some parallel with the situation in Ukraine where they have just removed 1,320 statues of Lenin.

The intent is not to wipe out history but to remove public symbols of occupation during the Soviet era. I imagine most of them are going to be destroyed.

Should all 1,320 statues be preserved? Does anyone need that many statues of Lenin? Maybe keep a few significant examples for museums?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503390620' post='3357736']
I know art is subjective but that's just gruesome and should never have been erected in the first place irrespective of the good or bad deeds he did.
[/quote]

To be fair, I think that's an artistic impression... that one was never erected.

This one was... used to overlook a children's swimming pool in Glasgow...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1503389702' post='3357713']
Regarding the statue of General Lee, I'm against destroying historical monuments what ever they are.
[/quote]