thodrik

[quote name='bubinga5' post='980079' date='Oct 7 2010, 12:01 AM']Thodrik, do you prefer the P bass to the higher priced basses you own...im always fascinated to hear..

got any pics of the Valenti Luke?[/quote]

Well, in a way, yes. Its more of a sentimental attachment though, since I've had the Fender for ten years and it was my first 'real' bass when I was 14. Its a 1978 model, and I picked it up for £380 quid (how times change!). To be honest, it plays as well as any bass I've played in terms of the neck and action, including my other basses. It has issues, like the finish on the neck is starting to wear, somebody cut the scratch plate in half in order to make it easier to fix electronics problems (it needed some serious soldering when I got it) the pickups are pretty low in output and the tone pot crackles. Its pretty much immaculate otherwise...

I do every gig I have with the Sadowsky, sometimes the Vigier, because of the superior build quality, better pickups and increased tonal variety on the bass and ease of getting a nice sound with too much fiddling with eq, pedals, that I generally had with the Precision. The Fender is also heavy as hell, and I didn't feel comfortable taking it on the road/to gigs with me in case something happened to it.

I could (but obviously don't want to) sell the Vigier or the Sadowsky Metro, because I'm confident that their quality is of a standard that most Vigiers and Sadowskys are really good, so I wouldn't have to look far to find another 'good one'.I don't think I could sell the Fender though, as I don't think I would find another like it. I think if you happen to get a 'good' Fender, especially an older one, its well worth keeping.

I would probably take a Sadowsky, Vigier or a Valenti over a new Fender Precision every time, but not over 'my' Fender.

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='980044' date='Oct 6 2010, 11:24 PM']The difference is, even though i've a feeling the valenti is the better bass, the fender jazz feels like 'my bass' also the 70's pickup spacing means it compliments the 50's style p bass well once ive sold the valenti and warwick and only have the two[/quote]

I know that feeling. I know that my Vigier and my Sadowsky are much 'better' basses than my Precision, the Precision will always be 'my' bass, whereas the other ones are really nice basses that I just happen to own.

Fender or the Valenti for me. Fender seemed to have a bit more bite, but the Valenti seemed to have a smoother clean. At least to me on one listen.

To be honest, I'm surprised that they have not produced a really lightweight head to accompany the single 10 and 12 inch cabs they do. That said in terms of price, the amp heads and cabs they do make seem to be in the same price bracket as much of the Aguilar, Ampeg, Trace Elliot and Eden stuff, and much less than Mesa Boogie, which to me are more realistically their competitors in the 'non-lightweight, professional quality' amp category than the ultra high-tech, lightweight amps.

The Proline cabs are really heavy, but really well built. Probably not the best of things to though unless you are gigging a lot and have the necessary transport, and/or help to lift them, which is probably why you only tend to see them on big stages, if you see them at all in the UK. The Neoline stuff is lighter but more expensive, but no more expensive than other quality cabinets. I wish they cheaper but alas no!

Anyways, I think EBS is always going to be more a niche product that some people like and others don't. It seems to associated in the UK with metal, jazz or funk, and I'm not sure that increased visibility in stores across the UK will change that perception. It would also be potentially unwise if EBS tried to essentially copy the business design of Markbass and other lightweight heads just to try and break the UK market, since their current stuff is doing well in Europe, and well even if they did try it, there is a chance that Markbass and the like would be doing it better anyway. They generally seem to be going in a different direction, the Fafner II is probably indicative of this.

I'm guessing that its a very good thing. Nothing against GB basses (they look great), but I found their customer service in terms of trying to order a rack unit to be pretty poor when I tried to order a rack case. Two emails unanswered. Two phone calls unanswered. When they did answer, I twice attempted to place an order, both times they took my details and said they would get back to me when they had what I wanted in stock, which they never did (Over a period of six months). Finally they did deliver when I called again, even though they still didn't have what I wanted, meaning they had either made no attempt at getting it for me or had lost my details (twice).

I don't mind a 'personal approach', so long as it works! I might be in the minority in terms of customer service experirence with GB, but personally I think the move will probably be for the best and allow them to just concentrate on their own products.

When doing covers, it was always You shook me all night long by AC/DC.

MV4 Metro 59 burst.

Until I actually get a camera I have to rely on others to photos of my basses. I managed to crop out my head on one of them to save you from differing levels of beard. Proper photos should be up at some point...eventually.

'Do you listen to Neekleback?'

Thats a really good one. Well done to whoever did that.

If the band is someone else's baby, then attempting to completely change basslines is a bit of a risk. Some bands have a guy that writes all the songs and want their songs to be played exactly as they imagine them in their head. Others seem to have a general idea of where they want the songs to go and are prepared to change and adapt to the ideas of others.

I think I have my basic audition 'routine' regardless of style

1. Bring my Precision, it fits every style and does not really immediately categorise me as a rock/blues/metal/folk bassist. Lets face it, there are non-bassists that distrust any bassists that do not play a Fender.
2. Run through the songs as they are on any recording, or if there isn't a pre-written bassline, just play what you think the song needs
3. If everybody is happy, gently ask if you can change a few parts of the bassline, usually it isn't a problem if you have just done No. 2.
4. If they insist on me playing it a certain way, I will for the remainder of the rehearsal, but at the end will probably say that the project is not quite what I'm looking for unless its a) its a paid gig b ) the band is really good even with really simple basslines, maybe when they write their next batch of songs they will make more use of the bass and let me write the basslines?

It sounds like the original poster didn't get on musically with the folk. Its not really a big thing, finding the right band and/or good musicians isn't always easy. Just keep looking.

Great looking bass, but almost too 'coffee table' looking for my own personal tastes.

A good cheap 4x10 cab that would do a good job would be the Peavey TVX series. Second hand would probably be the best option. Hartke is really good value for money too for amp and cabs (I don't really like the aluminium drivers myself but that is besides the point). Also there are loads of Trace Elliot amps and cabs around for little money second hand. If you can get on with the Trace Elliot sound its pretty good stuff for the most part. You could also maybe get hold of a second hand Ashdown ABM head. I quite like them (not as much as the Trace Elliot stuff), but some other just don't like them at all.

You have to remember about transport too, which if you don't have, makes getting a 4x10 and a head to gigs a bit of a pain! If transport is an issue I'd maybe suggest getting a 2x10 or 1x15 combo that has a good bit of power. So long as it has a DI and you can hear yourself onstage thats all you really need, as most venues have decent pa suppport and/or soundmen usually want to keep stage volume down to levels they are comfortable with.

If you have a car or something though I'd go with what the others have said and get a half decent 4x10 and a good amp that sends a good signal to the desk.

Good luck!

Its always the one I don't have. At the moment Jazz/Musicman or P/MM configuration. Or MM/MM!

Phew, thats a relief. After reading the title of this thread I was afraid that someone had just seen me play a gig.

I think that it has all been said, but change the strings for some brighter roundwounds and take the foam out. Maybe take a bit of time out with your amp and work out how to dial in a tone you like. It takes longer for to dial in 'my sound' on a passive than an active. If that doesn't work maybe try a preamp, like the VT bass, or the Aguilar Tone Hammer. If you still don't like the tone then you can pretty much say that you don't like Fender Precisions. Nothing wrong with that though, just keep looking for a bass that excites you.

I hope this doesn't turn into a P-bass bashing thread, as I've already had Sadowskys of basses criticised in the thread below. All I need now is someone to start a 'Vigiers are overrated' thread and I will officially not own any good basses!

I do like those videos of incredibly complex live set ups. I saw the Justin Chancellor one, where the Wal bass sound is processed through lots of different processors, pre-amps effects and 'clean' and 'dirty' rigs. I admire the effort and both players have the money to try whatever set up they want, so more power to them. I prefer the Matt Pike one, its funnier and despite him being a guitarist, I at least have a vague idea of how the rig works! Not sure he was that sober when doing it though.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvuuhr4fcz0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvuuhr4fcz0[/url]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='965089' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:45 PM']Sei or Status?! It's Shuker basses! Get it right!!

And isn't Hartke with Barefaced flavour of the month?[/quote]

My bad, I've not been on much this summer!

[quote name='Toasted' post='965059' date='Sep 22 2010, 10:14 PM']This thread is hilarious. A bunch of people who don't own Sadowsky basses telling those who do and gig them regularly that they're poor sounding basses.

Basschat gold for all the wrong reasons.[/quote]

I thought this too. I had felt that there was a little bit of dislike of Sadowsky basses on this forum before, but it has really come out here. Its strange that no other expensive basses of a similar style (Mike Lull, Nordstrand, Alleva, Celinder) get slagged in the same way. Sometimes I get the impression here that if you don't play Sei or Status basses through a barefaced cab with a Markbass head you don't know anything. No offence intended to any of those makers here, I am sure they are all fantastic and the amount of people that recommend them here is impressive and speaks for the quality. I just think that you should be free to like other stuff without being talked down to.

Its good that not everybody likes Sadowskys though, otherwise demand for them would go up and so would the prices!

Must say at current price levels I would probably get a Sandberg over a Sadowsky if I just needed a nice gigging bass that sounded great.

When I was buying my last bass it was between a Sandberg JM4 and Sadowsky Metro MV4 and the price difference was about £200-300 between the models, wheras now its about £800. The Sadowsky just won out at the time because I thought ultra bright attack and snap on the Sadowsky just won out. The Maple on the Sadowsky necks seems to be really hard, which along with the pickups and preamps seems to give a pretty punchy sound. The Sandberg (think it was a JM4 though I have played others too that were similar) had a naturally sweeter tone, even when played acoustically, which although really really nice wasn't what I was looking for (lots of punch and snap). Horses for courses.

I don't regret buying the thing either as I had literally spent years looking for the right bass for me. I tried Wal, Rickenbackers, Overwater, Spector, Warwick, Musicman, Zon, Lakland, vintage 1960s and 1970 Fenders and countless others. At the end only the Sandberg and Sadowsky seemed to play and sound spectacular to my tastes, though that probably says a lot more about me than the quality or the basses I tried, apart from the £3500 Fender that played and sounded horrible and was in terrible condition!

Its been ages since I did all my theory exams and unless I start playing the double bass again it probably won't return!

To be honest in bands you are lucky if the guitarist knows to find an F#/Gb and the rest and have any knowledge of basic major and minor scales and playing with a certain key, let alone knowing when a sharp becomes a flat. Too many band practices I've had with potential bands have contained lots of fretboard watching or somebody saying 'play here...then here...then here!' before turning to the drummer and going ' Hey try "Dum cha cha Dum cha cha" then hit the big cymbal'!

Not knowing when an A# becomes a Bb isn't that important, unless you are actually using notation, I just want somebody that knows what they are doing generally.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='963714' date='Sep 21 2010, 08:03 PM']But if you look Bubinga, bassists and guitarists are ridiculously bad for being stuck in the past.

In the 80's, things looked set to take off. Graphite was new to the market and those who adopted it quickly became very proficient at crafting basses with it. Headless design took off, as did active electronics. Solid state amps came and moved the goal posts on heavy, flabby sounding valve amps etc etc.

Then things seemed to stop and largely went back in time in the 90's! Luthiers everywhere continued to improve on the foundations of Ken Smith, Fodera and Alembic etc etc but the frenzy of development seen in the 80's just seemed to tail off (as did musical creativity in general, sadly).

We've come leaps and bounds from the 80's in the past 20 years, but it's sad to think that those days of excellent development and creation are gone.

I guess synth players are the same. They've got incredible technology now but they all want to get their hands on 1980's kit too! [/quote]

Its not being stuck in the past, its being comfortable with a classic design that has endured, delivers no matter what the gig or the style of music and never looks out of place at gig regardless of it being a folk, punk, jazz or metal gig. More technology doesn't always make for 'better', it just makes it different. I don't know how a headless bass is that much of an improvement on the concept of the electric bass guitar, though I would be willing to hear it anyone that owns one.

Many of the top-Fender inspired builders have greatly developed the design of Fender inspired basses, with chambering of bodies, pre-amps, the use of CNC, 'plekking', which have all been done with the intent of improving the design and quality control and making better instruments with fewer 'duds' being released. What you are left is a bass that is good balance between old and new. Obviously this isn't for everybody as some don't see the point of changing the original design of Fenders, either because they thought that Fenders were fine as they were or were rubbish in the first place.

I'm not that backward, I do own a Vigier Excess which is full of features that would never have been included on an original Fender, (zero fret, the carbon neck system thing, powerful pre-amp etc), but that doesn't stop a passive Fender from being a classic design in its its simplicity, or Fender-inspired instruments from being equally as good (Sadowsky, Nordstrand, some of the Laklands). A good Fender is something special. I would sell the Vigier before my Precision without question (its easier to find a really good Vigier than a really good late 1970s Fender Precision)

I haved played Warwicks, Wals, Overwater, Spector, but in terms of playability or sound none of them did anything to convince me that I would be improving my sound by ditching a battered old Fender or my 'Fender-clone' Sadowsky.

I would probably say that a 'proper' Jazz bass is the Fender standard model, (for snob reasons I'll say the US model too) four strings and passive. All the rest I would really classify as J-basses, taking elements of the original Fender design and changing it in some way. Being honest I would classify them all as jazz basses really, as it just seems like an exercise in splitting hairs.

[quote name='Mark Latimour' post='963152' date='Sep 21 2010, 11:41 AM']Pricing wise that's about spot on what you would pay if you imported that bass yourself. IOW, if its what you want, you won't get it any cheaper direct from Sadowsky.

Current Retail on a base NYC Will Lee $3975
Add: Maple top (assuming its not "Master Grade"): $300
Add: Standard Sadowsky shipping charge to UK: $200

Total direct cost from Sadowsky: $4475

Current exchange rate (assuming you can get mid-market, you can't): 0.644

Cost in GBP: £2888

Add VAT and fees on import at 20%: £576

Total cost to your door in GBP: £3464

Basically, the additional cost of buying from that shop is about £35 and you get it shipped to you next day rather than having it sit through customs. Now, I can't comment on whether the price of Sadowskys is fair (but I own one), but that price in that shop is pretty darn good all things considered.[/quote]

Thats what I would have thought. Also I think that the fact that Sadowskys are more expensive than Musicmans is neither here nor there really, especially if you don't like Sadowskys in the first place. I don't like Warwick thumb basses or Musicmans, but I don't go around saying how grossly overpriced they are because another make of bass I personally prefer (Fender Precision) is cheaper. After a point, it becomes a matter of identifying what you want to get out of a bass and buying accordingly. For me the 'spend more = better bass' becomes a bit blurred after you decide that a US standard Fender isn't quite what you are looking for.

Must...find...money!

Congratulations on both counts. I would just give it a thorough playing over checking that there isn't any obvious dead spots, bad fretwork or construction issues, which should be pretty obvious. I doubt you will have any problems though, just have fun.

Yeah very expensive but the NYCs are the generally custom made for the person ordering them. Much like any high end stuff its only really worth getting one if you like the inherent tone and concept behind the basses. Not everyone likes the Sadowsky sound and just think of them as highly-priced Fenders with the character taken out. If you want a Fender you should get a Fender.

Must say though that I do really like the Metro I got, though given the recent upward surge in their prices I can't say I would buy one at the current prices (I got mine for £1500 which is pretty much the upward limit of what I could spend or would spend on the Metro line, considering the the amount of really good basses available for £1000-1500. If you just want a really good bass you can easily look elsewhere, but only a Sadowsky sounds like a Sadowsky in my opinion.

Of course once I actually bought the thing Fender launch the US deluxe series which seem to very similar in style to the Sadowskys (I know the Sad is essentially Fender shaped but the new Fender Deluxes are a lot more 'refined' looking than they used to be). However, I still think that the preamp and bite of the Sadowskys is something I really like.

If I was putting all that money into an NYC I would probably go direct to have the exact specs I want. I think that the Will Lee models are the most expensive anyway due to having a slightly different pre-amp, neck and body shape, so I'm guessing they would be more expensive than many other NYC models.