SumOne

I think the Japanese concept of 'Kodawari: The relentless pursuit of a perfectng a craft' right down to very small details, kind of fits doing piano grades...or certainly more so than my somewhat punk attitude to playing Bass!

My lessons mostly consist of the teacher telling me to slow down, focus on one small section, perfect the details, repeat, and repeat again!

He has suggested I could possibly pass Grade 3 in June, or at a bit less of a rush to do it in November, so that keeps me on track of my longish term aim is to pass grade 5 before I turn 50 in summer 2029. So I'd better embrace the process for a lot of hours yet and get all 'Kodawari' on it! 

£339 at Gear4music, available in April.

Edit- just realised this is old news, posted a few posts ago.

I got a Roland SP-404 MK2.

It's a great bit of kit, you really get a lot more for your money with these things that sell to a wider audience than Guitar/Bass players. Economies of scale I guess.

For live multi-fx type stuff it has instrument level input, and 'input fx' setting that includes guitar amp Sims (unfortunately no Bass specific amps) and stuff like the 'warm saturator' that I like for a bit of drive and EQ (even though the name 'warm saturator' seems to imply wetting yourself.... perhaps that says more about me though!), you then have the buttons by the screen for a single fx on/off 'filter and drive' etc (the effects can be re-assigned), and then 3x additional fx that can be put in series or parallel but are trickier to access so are good for always on stuff like compressor. It also has some interesting fx you don't usually find on multi fx, e.g. Vinyl and Cassette sim.

It is not ideal as a traditional multi fx replacement (not stompable, no tuner/mute, input fx settings aren't changed via patch changes), but it could make do - especially for 'always on' type things or for home use. What it wins on are some of the quite unique fx and stuff I haven't got into yet like quickly looping stuff you've just played and re-sampling with new fx.

.....but of course live multi fx isn't its main use. Mostly it is a decent portable sampler/trigger, sequencer/production tool, stereo interface (instrument/mic in and stereo line in/out and usb, midi in/out) and can even be used as a DJ controller. Battery powered too - it should keep me entertained on my train commute.

I could see myself using this placed up by my amp to have on for 'always on' bass fx and occasional fx on/off via the buttons, but that's only probably worthwhile if I also use it to trigger samples and loops - otherwise a cheap stompable multi fx would be more appropriate. I'll also be using it for samples/loops and adding live fx for when I play keyboard (and can potentially play samples chromatically via midi keyboard but I'm yet to do that), and as an interface for home recording (a very useful 40 second memory is always on - so you noodle something you like you can go back to it and sample/save it), so for me I think it is well worth having.

9 hours ago, Aidan63 said:

I'll leave this here

 

Suno, AI Music, and the Bad Future

 

sorry I don't seem to be able to embed YT from Edge browser, but I am not IT literate - so much stuff now seems to be dependent on doing stuff on the phone, which I don't do

I'm sure as we are all analogue playing musicians on this forum that most people will see that Suno CEO as the enemy.

But I think he might have a point on one thing: Technology will be able to really 'gamify' music and open up brand new stuff - e.g. you're at a birthday party and all say a few prompts 'make a rock version of Happy Birthday for John, make fun of his hair, add a Kazoo solo' and a visual app to  'suggest dance moves'  then 'record us performing this song/dance in the style of a 80s hair-metal stadium performance', upload and share with 'John's birthday party TikTok group' etc etc. The end product will be throwaway and pretty much worthless to the rest of the world (there are already 100k songs uploaded to Spotify daily, so we're nearly there already), the value is in the experience of those that 'created' it.

But even that scenario is a bit depressing, a party could alternatively just sing a song, do a kazoo solo, dress up and do a dance all without any use of technology....but I guess times are a-changing and people like using technology for this sort of stuff. I suppose it could make your party more global and not face to face, which again I'd see as a bit of a shame in many ways.

Perhaps there's room for that, and still room for semi-retired blokes playing a P Bass in the pub to do their cover of Mustang Sally for the 100th time to an indifferent audience and feel accomplishment/joy in the experience of performing and artistic expression? Either way, they don't necessarily need to have much artistic merit for people to have fun with it.

3 hours ago, Kev said:

 

Oh absolutely.  Most stores tend to protect themselves by not covering return postage or not refunding postage paid, which is fairly standard unless its faulty goods, but its interesting the likes of Bax (I think?) make a big deal of offering a free "trial" period and cover all postage costs.  I feel there must be a hidden fair usage policy, as otherwise people could run riot with it. 

In a way, I'm all for people running riot with it (not that I think Al is).

These online only stores have put traditional stores out of business, accepting returns is part of their cost of doing business. 

I went to the Roland (Boss) store at Denmark Street and they would not price match their online Roland store Amazon price. I was there in the shop ready to buy but it saved me £15 to get it via Roland on Amazon - next day delivery and 30 days free returns that the shop doesn't offer. It made no sense to not buy it from Amazon (unless I really needed it there and then instead of next day).

I feel of the government doesn't act then all sorts of shops will close. One partial way of balancing things is to not feel guilty about using your legal right for online purchase returns.

(I think the business model of that Roland store is to be a big Roland advert though, not necessarily to be profitable as a stand-alone shop)

On 30/01/2026 at 15:34, DF Shortscale said:

 

 

Ok, show me some examples of current young practitioners whose business model is to post on online platforms either within music or art, who are genuinely innovating and pushing boundaries (not just pandering to algorithms), and are generating enough of an income from that to buy homes and feed families. Not people with side jobs, not people who are surviving off pre-social media fame and success - genuine newcomers who are making work with creative integrity.

 

Reaching an audience is not the same as getting paid. If you're on TikTok, you can have an audience of 400K if you fart into a phone. Engagement and success are not the same thing, and engagement without the support that comes with it is just attention without value. I don't know of many young people in the Gen Z range genuinely innovating and making art making an actual living purely from posting stuff online right now, and that's when we're still in the early days of AI. The current functional model is either to post clickbait, or to have a day job and do creative work on the side for pocket money. But feel free to show examples of current creative young innovators who are really pushing boundaries and paying off mortgages and feeding families from the online distribution model of their own creative output. To me it seems like wishful thinking, and it's only going to get worse as AI content grows, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I see lots of talent and artistic vision out there, but I don't see any of those people surviving without jumping through hoops right now, let alone when AI content corrupts things even further. And those are the people who would need to be investing in products by NI to keep the company going. Ageing boomers nearing the end of their creative careers - and even Gen X artists - are not going to sustain these software companies for much longer.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps a bit different from what you're saying, but two of the eight Grammy nominees for 'best new artist' first got fame via TikTok  (Addison Raye, Alex Warren). And the winner of best music video was Deochii (who got fame as a Youtuber vlogger). So I suppose at least for them social media got them audience and then they monetise it by becoming musicians and selling gig tickets and merchandise and endorsements etc.

5 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Hmm.. not sure of the relevance as punk didn't try to do what the conservatories were doing, but cheaper, it produced a new form of music. whereas the AI thing is to produce the music without needing the people of the punk and the conservatories at least on recorded materials. 

 

I think it's just a different flavour of that, or it can be.

People said similar with sampling, synths (memories of my Dad's distain at 80's '1 finger keyboard players'), drum machines, DJs, Laptop music etc. 

Granted, they did all need people to a certain extent (but lazy people could just use drum machine presets and a synth arp preset), but it depends how people use AI to how much input they have - could be anything from just mastering a track all the way up to making it all via a prompt (and isn't that a bit like the non-musician producers that just tell musicians how to play?).

I assume some of the backlash against Punk was similar. And probably Rock n Roll before that, and Blues before that. Music isn't all about technical skills, it's about expression - if AI can help people express themselves then is it always a bad thing? I suppose there is a spectrum regarding artistic input.

People that studied music for years and struggled to make a living in an orchestra probably looked at punk musicians with the sort of distain people look at people using AI for helping write music now. I suppose a key thing with Punk was the democratisation of expressing yourself through music - whether or not you were lucky enough to have been able to go to a music conservatory or have the time and money to practice. AI supporting artists possibly does similar.

Nearly 50 years after punk and we still have music conservatories and orchestras of highly trained musicians and people that appreciate hearing that, and a lot of musicians (e.g. rappers, DJs, pop singers)  that could barely tell you the difference between a major and minor chord. There is room for both.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Gazz wasn't a real person, just an AI bot prodding about to see what word combinations get interaction.....or perhaps is a real person doing similar.

On 31/01/2026 at 10:09, AndyTheBassBison said:

The honeymoon period is over and I’m still loving this pedal although it isn’t perfect. Tracking isn’t quite good enough to do ‘ain’t nobody’ live so I’ve gone back to using my oc5 in modern/poly mode for that song. I find the octaver setting on the mxr is good but isn’t a replacement for the OC5.

That's interesting as my synth bass pedal conclusion usually is:

Honeymoon period = 'most fun effect pedal ever, hours of tweaking, this'll sound amazing live'.

Then after a few weeks 'the sounds are actually a bit cheesy, I spend too long tweaking it instead of playing, not sure I can trust it live and it feels a bit disconnected/tracking can be an issue'

After a couple of months 'Sell it as I'm better off with envelope filters, octavers, overdrive, modulation etc. that feel immediate and reliable and like Bass guitar effects instead of a cheesy outdated synth'.

I think this MXR and the latest Future Impact version might change my thinking though.

21 minutes ago, xgsjx said:

I used to DJ quite a bit back in the 80s & 90s.  The majority of the time was on 1200/1210 decks.
I know that they're associated strongly with DJing rather than home HiFi, but from the research that I've done on the Mk7 decks, the GR2 and the G are more aimed at the HiFi market (they do a standard version for about £800, which is more aimed at the DJ market).  HiFi shops sell the GR & G, but rarely the standard & DJ shops rarely offer the GR or G (some do, but not many).
 

Ah right, I stand corrected. I thought that Direct Drive wasn't ideal for hi-fi and the 1200 types were all DJ focussed.

Either way, years of DJing and playing in bands means my hearing wouldn't tell any difference between hi-fi and fisher price!

11 hours ago, xgsjx said:

A wee twist in the turntable hunt…

 

Mrs saw the Technics SL 1200GR2 today & loves it. So that may be sitting in my living room in the not too distant. 😎

I'm a big fan of Technics. Have had 1210's for 30 years with only small bits of DIY maintenance needed. So getting the 1200GR2 I'm sure would be the last deck you'd ever need to buy.

.....however, I'm not certain the 1200GR2 (or older versions like 1200 and 1210's) are ideal for home listening. Isn't their main design for them to be built like reliable tanks to withstand DJs doing stuff like this: 

It's like getting a tank to do the school run. A lot of unnecessary cost, bulk and toughness, while missing some features that would be nice to have.

I think in terms of processing power, build quality, sounds, and price it's still very competitive. 

I'm not sure anyone really needs more than 3x parallel paths and 24 simultaneous effect blocks. And the sounds all seem good to me.

What would be interesting (but not essential) are some more innovative sounds: Synth, Arpeggiator, sample triggering, tone capture, glitchy stuff etc.

And I think all multi fx need to put more effort into the user interface, it's the main reason so many people still use individual effects pedals. e.g. if a live situation I'm using a multi fx for Compressor, Amp sim, Drive, and just one part of a song I suddenly feel (with no preset pre planning) a phaser would be good - how realistic is it to be able to do Vs individual pedals where it's just 'stomp on the phase 90'.

3 hours ago, Kiwi said:

Do you think he gets out of bed in the mornings looking like that?  Asking for a friend.

2 hours ago, Buddster said:

In my mind, Mr Collins lives his days fully lost in funkadelia at Mothership Mews, Rubberband Land, and his whole house is decorated like it! 💫

Yeah, I don't think Bootsy does anything as mundane as getting out of bed and getting dressed in the mornings.

35 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

There's also a used GT1000 Core with your name on it (kinda literally, if you registered it 😅) to consider? 😊

The Core would be the more sensible option, not leasst as I'm always considering how useful pedals can also be with my keyboard (Core for stereo effects etc will be useful for both Keys and Bass). ...but I'm not a particularly sensible person!

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I bought my first Panda FI Mk1 off a fellow BC'er back in 2018 - he and I have stayed mates ever since meeting up at a service station in time honoured fashion to buy/sell the goods! 

 

But I never quite gelled with that or the subsequent several I bought and gave up on! 

 

I always thought that this could be a great product (and fed my thoughts back to Peter) as and when:

- they improved the tracking (done - v4)

- came out with a more compact pedalboard friendly model (done - v4 VIP)

- made this user friendly for bassists who wanted some great usable sounds out of the box and allowed for better on-board editing - looks they've cracked that with v4.5

 

The MXR Synth provides all that too and has demonstrated the level of demand for the above.

 

But for an extra £20 the FIv4 provides a more capable synth engine (including FM synthesis), a better display, many more presets, and the ability to deep dive with a bespoke computer editor for those who would like to have that option. Feels like a no-brainer to me, and it's great to be able to support a home-grown product championed by one of our own.

 

VIP just ordered 😊

 

I've been eyeing it up too (helps that it has just been payday!). Did you order it from Music Store or direct? 

I basically have no pedalboard at them moment (well, just a tuner), so if wearing my sensible hat I should probably get a couple of things like compressor and overdrive before the next gig....my amp can do each of those things and it can't make FI type noises (unless something is giong quite wrong!) so I think I might take off my sensible hat and put on this one to get a FI v4

12 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

 

There's plenty of aphorisms about this but I quite like: "Those who are carried to a goal should not think they have reached it" regarding AI - it's one I use with my students and coursework!

 

 

 

 

That's very true for those that want to have pride in their artistic efforts. Unfortunately though, the goal for many isn't artistic integrity and having pride in what they've created - it's reaching the goal of making £ and presumably getting AI to fully compose music might be a way of achieving that. 

Perhaps this isn't true, but people are suggesting that companies like Spotify and Amazon music are using AI to create music and are promoting it on their playlists as they then don't need to pay royalties. e.g. Ask Alexa to 'play relaxing background music' and it is in their interest to play bland innofensive AI generated stuff they don't need to pay for.

Sounds like a good update, I might give a v4 another go.

I had a v3 and liked it, but didn't like the octave tracking jump thing (I play a lot of octaves with synth bass), so I sold it to get a C4. A few years later I got a FI V4 but had hours of hassles trying to get it to connect to my Laptop but no luck, could've been my Laptop and the many competing drivers and midi things on it, the midi connector, or the FI, not sure - but my patience wore out so I gave up in the end and sold it (I do think this is a bit of an overlooked thing and hence a lot of the popularity of the MXR, people just want something that works easily, no faff). However, if I can do program order editing and a decent level of parameter editing directly on the pedal then I'm not too fussed about Laptop connection (just as long as I can also switch the slow/fast tracking via the pedal).

Bonus for me is my Keyboard doesn't have a proper synth (just samples) so I'm keen on getting a small midi triggered synth unit (had been looking at things like the Behringer JT Mini).  Is the FI v4 always monophonic - or can it do polyphonic when controlled via midi?

7 hours ago, Uncle Rodney said:

 

 

What makes humans human is, the ability to ask.

Fun fact:

The Royal Society* motto since 1662 has been 'Nullius in verba'....meaning 'take nobody's word for it'.

So I suppose not much really changes.

 *the world's oldest national scientific academy.

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

 all it is doing is regurgitating in a slightly different way what has already been done.

 

 

A good description of my band!

8 hours ago, DF Shortscale said:

 

 

I have a feeling that this will keep happening to similar companies and we are seeing the early stages of the death of electronic music, or at least software based electronic music. As AI eats everything digital, people are slowly losing interest in this stuff and values are beginning to shift. If AI can crap out a generic house tune which is indistinguishable from a human-made one, it’s game over. When people can’t tell the difference between digital and AI, they will just lose faith in the whole thing and move on. Same thing is beginning to happen to digital art too. Interesting times.

Unfortunately, I think you might be right. At least that's what it feels like to me as someone who has spent 30 years making electronic music.

There is software that suggests chords progressions, song structure and drum patterns, Reason has just been bought by an AI company. Or can fully go with something like Suno. 

On quitting digital music, Daft Punk said 'the last thing they'd want to be now (with AI music) is Robots'. One of them went on to hand write an orchestra score for a ballet. A bit like being a digital visual artist but now AI can do it it'll kills off the need for humans doing that stuff and the market/rarity/value of digital art decreases, but AI won't replace hand painted oil portraits.

Along with Daft Punk, one of my favourite electronic producers is Jamie xx, I think he does innovative stuff that's still accessible and more than most he has a signature sound, but a comment on one of his latest releases was 'sounds like AI'. If people think his stuff sounds like AI there's no hope for someone like me to not!

I'm thinking there will be push-back in listening trends, AI will be great at personalising music (e.g. linked to mood/time of day, where you are in a marathon and heartbeat etc) but people will want to see real people perform live music with instruments. 

 I'm loving this: 

"Every Saint's a sinner, we all have our past.

Forever is a fiction, nothing lasts." 

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Scarily easy as I've just figured out! 

 

 

Another nail in the coffin for aspiring originals artists hoping to "make it", just as streaming has already proved to be?

 

I suspect that where the industry is heading could well be similar to where classical music has ended up with performers, in our case covers and tribute bands, being custodians of a vast library of music that is already much loved; with occasional new material to sit alongside the great songwriters and composers of the past: read ABBA to Zeppelin for Bach to Stravinsky.

 

The Times They Are A-Changin'...

Yeah, I figure playing an instrument live is somewhat future-proofed. People have been able to listen to recorded music for over 100 years but still want to go out and hear people perform it. 

Making new music, I dunno - AI will get very good at it. There will probably be a lot of hybrid stuff where music is made more cheaply/easily with AI but there is still a real 'face' to the music e.g. ask AI to make a backing track after having been given prompts about the style etc. but then a real person sings over it.

In the cold light of day now my initial hype has worn off I think for adding a small synth unit to be controlled by my keyboard I'll be better off using iPad or Laptop soft-synths at home and perhaps something like the Behringer mini and micro series if I want hardware (especially financially, as they are £40 - £80), or something like the Roland P-6 if I want sample playback via midi keyboard. And then for Bass guitar synth, I think I prefer the feel and interaction of combining individual effects (envelope filter, octaver, distortion - right up to gated fuzz, modulation, delays etc), it tends to avoid the slightly detached feel I usually get when using synth pedals with Bass.

Still though, this does look good - playing samples back via Bass guitar has all sorts of potential if it tracks well etc. If the price is right I might get it.

On 25/01/2026 at 12:58, bass_dinger said:

That's what did it for me: the endless repetition of a single piece to get it just so, and the aiming for one single perfect performance. 

 

I am guessing that if  @SumOne has played something 100 times on the bass guitar, it is because it has been gigged it 95 times.  However, piano is frustratingly different, and difficult. 

 

 

 

 

 

That is very true, I suppose I did put in about 4 years of Bass practise before ever playing with a band though.

But yeah - nowadays most of my Bass practice is playing with a band. It's partly that thing of it being a 'sociable' sort of instrument that works best played with others I like about bass. And I partly like Piano for the opposite reason - it can work well as a solo instrument to play alone at home.

Piano seems to require a different sort of repetitive practise with formally learned technical skills being more important (like I'd mentioned earlier in the thread: the amount of gigging Bass players that did formal lessons/grades vs Piano players I expect would be markedly different). Playing one song so many times to perfect it to pass the grades and then move on is a bit tedious, but I guess it shows the challenge is at about the right level if it is difficult but achievable.