Baloney Balderdash

40 minutes ago, tomaoz said:

Hey everyone, thanks so much for the speedy replies, some really useful food for thought there.

I've had a little experience tuning my bass in fifths many years ago. (I was once asked to stand in at very short notice for an AWOL bassist and found tuning it this way let me sight read straight off the bat! But I almost warped the neck in the process I think as I didn't have the correct string gauges on 😬)

I did toy with getting a mandocello some years ago but couldn't find one to try. But I do have a tenor mandolin (and my cello) so I play in fifths a good bit already - and I'm really enjoying playing in standard bass tuning at the moment. But maybe it's something I'll revisit.

And excuse my ignorance, but the mention of E-C tuning - that's just standard bass tuning with a C string above the top G? If so, that sounds ideal. (I was getting a bit confused as cello tuning (bottom up) is C-G-D-A - the same as this but upside down, minus the E string).

Can pretty much any 5 string bass be tuned this E-C, if the correct gauge strings are used? Or are some models specifically designed to accommodate a top C rather than a bottom B?

Thanks!

 

Yes, the C is a 4th above the G (and G a 5th above the octave lower C for cello tuning), just like the rest of the strings in standard tuning.

And yes, any 5 string bass can be tuned E to C providing you use the correct string gauges, which the link I posted will help you chose (just plot in whichever gauges you use normally use for regular tuning and then whichever tuning you like, and try out plotting in different gauges till they approximately match the tension of those in the new tuning).

But usually a gauge .030 or .032 string will work well for the high C. 

I mean there are limitation to what tunings that will work, in terms of the appropriate gauge of strings in said tuning fitting the nut slots of the bass, if not a new nut would have to be cut and installed, but a regular nut on a regular 5 string bass, cut for strings suited a regular B to G tuning, will accommodate the slightly thinner gauge strings suited for an E to C tuning perfectly fine without any issues whatsoever with how nut slots are supposed to be cut.

Also, although I guess that would be a matter of personal taste, the high C might actually sound better on a short scale bass.

If you prefer playing short scale basses you should also know that there is nothing inherently inferior about them, as I sense from the OP that you might have had gotten the impression of, or that they are only for short people with small hands for that matter, if that had been true an absolute legend and master bass player, and might I add very tall man with huge hands, like Stanley Clarke (who by the way also is an extremely accomplished double bass player) wouldn't have chosen short scale electric basses as his main instrument of choice.

On 15/03/2017 at 20:55, ratman said:

I'm hankering for a go on a Sub n Up. Has anyone got some experience with one they'd like to share?

Rather late to answer this one, but might be of some help for future viewers of this thread.

I got a Sub'N'Up Mini on my current main board, which is using the exact same octave engine as the regular big version, but I use it for the 1 octave up effect, which tracks as good as flawlessly and with basically unnotable latency, and which with the default polyphonic Toneprint Template chosen and some dialing in the Toneprint editor can be made to sound very close to an authentic/realistic octave up, or at least as close as any basic octave up effect can be with no additional processing other than EQ can get (which will be pretty far from perfect, but as said basically as close as it gets with any existing pedals on the market, until EHX decides to make a guitar version of their Bass9 pedal for use with bass).        

It is also capable of a wide range of special effects using the Toneprint with it's build in modulation or loading the right custom Toneprint.

However the polyphonic 1 octave down effect on it frankly sucks as a standalone effect, it sounds floppy and muddy and unlike that octave up effect it got a painfully notable latency to it.

So while I would not hesitate to warmly recommend it if an as close as it gets authentic/realistic 1 octave up effect (for a faux guitar/8 string bass kind of thing), if what you need is a 1 octave down effect I would strongly advice against getting this pedal.

And if what you want is that classic analog monophonic 1 octave down effect nothing really beats the real thing.  

2 hours ago, Beedster said:

You could tune your bass in 4ths like a 'cello?, there's a few string tension guides online that would help you get it right, although I'm not sure whether it's going to be as easy with a SS as it would with a 34"

You mean 5th tuning, standard tuning is in 4th.

And it would definitely be easier to manage the extended reach this tuning would result in on a short scale bass.

Edit!!!:

Also regarding the need to buy single individual strings for this, which often only comes in regular long scale versions, as long as we are talking roundwound strings with a hex core, like for instance regular D'Addario XL strings, as long as you before cutting make an abrupt 90 degree bend on the string bellow the cutting point, I have never had any issues whatsoever, neither unwounnding, intonation, or otherwise, with cutting regular long scale strings to size to fit a short scale bass, and I've done this a lot, if you are really anxious eventual you could dip the bend end in a thin layer of super glue as well, just to be absolutely 100% sure, and let it cure for 24 hours (yes, most super glue will cure in a matter of seconds, but actually to bond fully and reach optimal binding strength most super glue needs a curing time of 24 hours).

Don't do this with any other string types though, especially not flats, as you otherwise are most likely to end up ruining the strings.

A 5 string short scale tuned E to C sounds like a great idea for your use.

It is not common to tune this way, usually it would be low B to high G, but a few professional bass players do actually do this.

Usually referred to as tenor bass tuning, 4 string tenor bass tuning would be A to C, which of course is also an option if you don't need the low E (Stanley Clarke utilized this a lot, and Victor Wooten use it sometimes too, both having a dedicated bass tuned this way that they bring to all their live show, but also use on recordings).

My main 4 string is tuned G to A#, 3 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, or you could tune F# to A, as in 2 half steps above regular 4 string bass E standard tuning, the latter actually being a traditional tuning often used for upright bass solo pieces in classical music.

Another option is getting a 4 string short scale bass with better upper fret access, maybe even one with 24 frets, yes, the Fender Mustang is really bad in this regard, and the reason why I will never get one, and eventual tune it in 5th like a cello, again a few professional bass players do actually do this, to get more range out of it.

Just be sure to string it accordingly, with string gauges fitting the tuning for proper tension, this might help with that: 

https://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_guitar_tension_from_size.htm

Anyone knows how close the new Trace Elliot Transit B preamp that is supposed to recreate the original classic Trace tone actually gets to the real thing?

I should maybe add that while I am a big fan of the classic Trace Elliot tone/sound, I've never been a fan of the Pre Shape, or should I say mid suck, button.

Anyone knows how close the new Trace Elliot Transit B preamp that is supposed to recreate the original classic Trace tone actually gets to the real thing?

Congratulations. 

I miss my 1x 15" Trace Elliot GP7SM 130 W combo, that easily could compete with a loud rock band I played in at the time.

Best I've ever sounded (I liked it back when I played though the Ampeg B-15S that I was stupid enough to sell at some point as well, much to my later regret, but a quite different beast, and honestly I personally still prefer the Trace tone).

I think I might need to pick up a used Trace Elliot head soon.

Crazy - Gnarls Barkley

Broken - Sentridoh/Lou Barlow

42 minutes ago, Adey said:

It seems that the secret about how good the Westbury guitar range was has got out now and prices are going north quite quickly it seems.

 

A nice Custom went for close to £1000 recently, and the Standards are also fetching good money.

 

I've got a battered Custom, a slightly road worn DELUXE, a Track 2 and this Track 4 (OK, it's a Track 3.5 at the moment...).

 

Find yourself another one yourself and have a blast! You won't regret it.

Well, this was Westbury Standard guitar, but same basic body and headtsock shape as the bass in the OP.

Fairly rare to find on sale though.

In chronological order, every bass I have ever owned:

Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic (still own and love it)

Rickenbacker 4001 (vintage 70's, that I quickly came to absolutely hate, went under the couch at the band rehearsal space to stay there, until it eventually it got stolen, don't miss it one bit, but do regret missing out on the resale money, most expensive piece of crap I ever bought)

Jerry Jones Neptune Longhorn Bass (loved it, but was suppid enough to sell, still regret)

Westone Violin/Beatles Bass (great for what it was, but just wasn't for me, short acquaintance before selling again)

Dan Armstrong Plexi Bass (didn't care for it, neither the sound of any of the two swapable pickups it came with or the feel, sold it fairly quickly, kind of regret though)

Warmoth 28 5/8" scale 4 string bass, made out of Warmoth baritone parts (loved it, but was stupid enough to sell, and for pretty much peanuts compared to what it costed me to have build, still regret)

Ibanez GSRM20 and GSRM25 Mikro Basses (still own, and absolutely love the 4 string)

Egmond vintage late 60's short scale bass (worst piece of crap that I should never have bought, pretty much completely unplayable, that I am now stuck with)

Harley Benton GuitarBass (great take on the Fender Bass VI concept, still own with no plans to ever sell)

I used to own the guitar equivalent, with a DiMarzio Super Distortion bridge pickup and a DiMarzio PAF neck pickup from stock.

Greatest guitar I have ever played, and was my main for many years.

Felt no less than amazing in my hands, just absolutely perfect, and sounded astonishing too.

Unfortunately at some point I was stupid enough to sell it.

One of the greatest seller remorse experiences I've ever had (up there together with the Jerry Jones Neptune Longhorn Bass and Ampeg B-15S all tube 60W bass amp).

Still regret it to this day. 

Me in the music school band I was playing guitar in when I first started to learn how to play guitar.

Though that was more a case of them having to suffer my playing. 

Did however also force me to play quite a few tracks I would otherwise never have dreamed of suffering to listen to voluntarily, let alone do covers of, so suppose to some extend it was a mutual painful experience.

29 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

This is one of the things that puts me off with software: It was only after I bought EZDrummer 2 that I realised it doesn't have a grid editor ('superior drummer' needed for that), clearly they thought it was lacking as they have released EZ Drummer 3 which includes grid editor, but it'll cost €99 to upgrade. I suppose that's fair enough, but it just feels like buying software/updates etc never ends, everything sort of follows a paid update/subscription model.

 

On a related note, the new subscrition model of 'Waves' plugins looks like it's really P!$$ed off its existing customers:  

 

Very unlike  Reaper, where the creator, bar a slight 5 seconds to get access annoyance (no commercials in that time span though) after the initial trial period, offers a fully functioning, full featured, amazing music creating tool and DAW completely for free, including full free access to all updates, and being exactly just as great as any of the commercial offerings on the market if you ask me.

Unfortunately however, to my knowledge, there are really no such alternative when it comes to great drum VST's.

That said I don't miss an EZDrummer grid editor.

Reaper/Midi and EZDrummer 2.

For electronic music, if I want a more electronic/less realistic/authentic drum sound, I often also use Reason 5, though including some external 3rd party drum samples.

Hardware for playing/recording the drums, in those cases where I'd rather do that than program them: a M-Audio Oxygen Pro 49 Midi keyboard that features weighted keys as well as drum pads.

Don't have any suggestion regarding inexpensive drums, I'd warmly recommend EZDrummer, but that's not exactly cheap, for programming midi though I can't recommend the free DAW Reaper enough (do have the decency to pay the maker the small amount of money (compared to commercial solutions that isn't one bit better) he optionally asks for though, for making such a great music creation tool available for free), in my experience as great as any commercial DAW (it's my preferred one). 

Another thing you should be aware of technique wise, other than what BassAdder60 mentions, and the part about gripping the pick close the tip for better control that I mentioned, is to not use your arm to strum the pick, by far the majority of the movement is supposed to be in your wrist, not your elbow. 

Maybe try different picks (a lot of brands offer variety packs).

The actual pick, thickness, material and flexibility has a larger say in not only tone but also feel than most people realizes.

You might find that simply finding the right pick for you will make picking a lot easier for you.

Most bass players prefer relatively thick picks, but there are no rules, or such a thing as the ultimate one best pick for everyone, and I for instance really prefer the Dunlop USA Nylon .73mm, which is relatively flexible.

Also to add what other people have already suggested, grip the pick close to the tip for improved control.

On 19/03/2022 at 13:07, Grassie said:

Afternoon all,

 

Some of you may well remember my post from 2018 (I can't believe it's four years ago...) found here:

Well, I finally created a follow-up and I'm rather pleased with it. If you're a precision bass type of guy (or girl) then this should be right up your rue.

Let me know what you all think - constructive criticism welcomed of course....

This will probably end up as a run of prints as before, if there's enough interest that is.

Cheers! 

Is this a "find the two basses that got the P pickup oriented the proper way" kind of puzzle? 

8 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Open back is only risky for bass use if you want lots of bass and/or lots of volume.

 

For the first two years of playing bass I used my Carlsbro Wasp 10W guitar amp which had a 10" speaker and an open back design. My band was mostly a recording project so we didn't need to play very loud (and most of the time I was channeling my inner Peter Hook), and if we did need to use it live, it was mic'd up through the PA.

 

In the days when I ran a bi-amped rig the top end was supplied by a 2x8" cab which I had made myself based on the dimensions a guitar combo I used to own.

 

And if it's not real, open back can sound great with bass guitar. At the moment my favourite amp/cab combination on the Helix is their emulation of the Roland Jazz Chorus Combo, something that you would never use for bass in real life, but which sounds surprisingly good for the type of music I play.

It might work on a modeler.

Since a modeler will only replicate the EQ of the speakers not the actual excursion of them.

And your small 10W combo amp might had been different too.

But as someone who actually tried to play bass, and not very loud even, and not even a very bassy bass, for a recoding, through the Roland JC120 Jazz Chorus amp I once owned, I wouldn't recommend it.

The speakers didn't like it that's for sure the way they behaved and violently moved about, and sounded pretty donkey too.

To OP:

As someone else has already pointed out I would hook up the actual amp part of your combo to an external cab made with bass being played through it in mind instead, that is unless you want to build the amp into a completely new combo cabinet with a design and dimensions fitting an actual bass speaker.

Guitar amps can make great bass amps, guitar cabs and guitar speakers not so much.

7 minutes ago, Jakester said:

 

Or, evidently, both?

No!

Never!

I am always right, even when proven wrong!

And I have never unintentionally made myself look like a jerk!

Never!

Just ask your mom.

18 minutes ago, ped said:

About ten edits later and that’s what you’re happy with? 🤦🏻‍♂️ 

Happy as can be! 

Let's see how far off topic we can derail this, right? 🙋‍♂️👨‍🔧🦹‍♀️👩‍🎓🥷👩‍🚀🧛‍♂️🧙‍♂️👮‍♀️

1 hour ago, Jakester said:

 

 

Maybe do a bit of neck winding in?

Context, context really is everything:

So does guessing right when judging people make it right to base your judgement on pure guesswork?

In my book the decent thing to do is giving people the benefit of a doubt until proven otherwise.

And I by far prefer to be proven wrong over being a jerk.

1 hour ago, Old Ozzie Guy said:

U probably right, just the studio side of me keeps ruling my thought process.. it's not for tone really, it's to get rid of woolie bottom from  hofner being O/driven,

And to get max vol out of Ampeg Micro VR with 1x12..

Ah, well, in that case I would say that the people here pointing out it not really being the right approach would actually be right.

Get a more efficient active HPF to place in the effect loop, an extra one, or set the frequency of your current one to cut at a higher frequency.