md54

'Doing stuff your own way' can waste a lifetime. And often does. I'm not interested in 'Chat.' Or PC theories on creativity. Or mutual massaging of sore ego's. Or encouraging/excusing/applauding rubbish musicianship. This forum is not for me. Bye every one. Keep up the 'chatting.'

Relax. I won't be coming to your next gig.

There's a world of difference between a bedroom fretless YouTube virtuoso and a proper working musician. I don't kid myself. If you cant play the whole instrument in tune without your eyes glued to the fretboard.....you're not a fretless bass player. Funny how many people misread stuff. Obviously players GLANCE at their hand when necessary. But that's all you can do for very short moments if your reading moderately difficult chords or dots. That's what proper musicians have to do in real life folks. You cant read a chart whilst looking at your hands guys. If you are purely an ear player and never read paper you have to be able to take your eyes off the neck and play in tune. Any plonker can call themselves 'a fretless bass player' so if that's what you want to call your self then it's not illegal (perhaps it should be?). So I was technically wrong on that front. Any one who actually shares a house with a fretless bass can describe themselves as 'a fretless bass player'..... if they have picked it up at least once! Fretless bass BEGINNER or DUFFER would be more honest though. Intonation on a fretless EB is actually far harder than a cello/violin or DB because of the lack of reference points with the body of the instrument. However, a small number of people get it right. Most don't (me included). Whatever. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether you're a fretless bass player....... or a fretless bass poser.

There's a world of difference between a bedroom fretless YouTube virtuoso and a proper working musician. I don't kid myself. If you cant play the whole instrument in tune without your eyes glued to the fretboard.....you're not a fretless bass player.

Thanks. I'll stick to my fretted. I'm not a big fretless fan anyway.

The problem with fretless is not looking at your hands. Any one can play it when checking your fingers visually all the time as nearly everyone does. I'ts a bloody nightmare playing in the high registers and not looking. If you're playing a reading gig even if it's just chord charts it's VERY DIFFICULT. Even Jaco P. had a fretted bass for those situations. I notice that Jeff Berlin now plays fretted all the time. NOTHING sounds worse than a bass player a little out of tune on a gig and it is so very easily done. As for the tone and freedom etc.. I'ts a matter of taste but I hear a lot of guys on fretless who sound thin and average. However Jeff Berlin sounds beautiful on his fretted in my opinion. I feel liberated when I play my fretted. No fear of being out of tune so I can focus totally on note choice and go for some complex fingerings/stretches without restriction. Frets are absolutely liberating as far I am concerned. I do a lot of reading for fun and half of the stuff I read would be a lifetimes work to get accurate intonation for little or no benefit. Double bass intonation is hard enough but it's even harder on fretless EB because of the way we play horizontally and with the bass moving around on a strap. Bass players have a snob thing going on about fretted/fretless/line markers etc. Playing an unlined fretless means your top dog even if you're shite and have to look at your hands all the time. Lined fretless comes second because it doesn't look cool and you don't know where to put your fingers. Fretted, third because you are obviously incapable of playing a fretless and clearly a beginner who can't do over the top vibratos and silly old hat sliding harmonic party tricks. There! Got that off my chest! (PS I played fretless and EUB for many years but genuinely found it limiting).

Are there any players out there who can actually read high register stuff on fretless or EUB? That is without looking at fingers and fret board. I've given up and just use a fretted bass now. I just wondered if anyone has mastered this and how they managed it. Thanks

Sorry guys I forgot that I posted this original question! Yes I know that you can just play the chord changes......obviously. However I think it would be cool to be able to play the tune as well if I wanted to. So I have been practicing the following and I think I've cracked it. The main problem is that if you play the treble notes at the top of the fret board you cant play the higher notes of the tunes on a standard 4 string fender. So I transpose an octave down. I think of the bass strings as the 4 bottom strings of a guitar and the low E corresponds to the E below the 3 rd ledger below the treble clef. So it is actually sounding 3 octaves below the note as written I believe. This makes most of the treble clef stave fall into the middle of the bass. I have been switching sight reading bass and treble clef in practice and it's starting to make sense although I have to keep reminding myself which clef I am in. A lapse of concentration and you suddenly jump into the wrong clef! My objective is to be able to jump from bass or treble at will and read what ever comes my way. I'm actually enjoying the challenge. I played the tune of Stella by Starlight the other day and the guys in the band loved it. On lead sheets the tune is nearly always in treble.

Playing in a small jazz quintet it’s normal to hand the bass player a tune in treble clef and just be expected to play the changes written underneath. This is really irritating but par for the course unfortunately. I can read treble clef but It does my head in if I’m holding my bass and not a guitar! Very weird if you think about it. Does anyone else out there have to deal with this? If so any tips? Note I play a 4 string fender. Thanks

A large bottle of Surgical spirit (don't drink it) will be essential for the fingers especially the side of your right index finger. That finger should point to the floor when plucking to get a good jazz sound. It gets a hell of a thrashing. Definitely not like an EB movement at all.

Oh wow! Thanks for all of this. Funny thing is I have an ABY pedal that I had completely forgotten about! Its a Big Shot true bypass (just found it). So that is definitely problem solved. My one (and now) only bass is a 1980's Japanese Noel Redding Fender Jazz. (Flat wounds of course). It's not worth a lot but I love it. Some prat will probably show up and want to play a crap blues rock thing but that's usually a guitar player! Haha. Jazz people tend to be pretty sensible and averse to high volume ( old) so It's not an issue. Thanks Folks.

You are in for a very big shock! It's a hell of a lot harder than EB on several levels. Good luck!

I have recently bought a second hand Fender Rumble 100V3.(which I really like) and I have an older Fender Rumble 25. The situation is that at the venue the drummer wants the bass amp close by and turned towards him! I thought I could use the 25w as a sort of monitor for him and keep the 100w in a sensible position. It's only a jazz gig, 25 watts extra would be significant. I'm worried about earth loops or whatever you call it. I remember from the bad old days that could be an issue. What do you think? Many thanks for your help.

Hi My first post! I've recently come back to bass playing after a long lay off. I've been asked to play at a local jazz jam as the house bass. My question is can I link my 100 watt combo to a 25watt combo via the line out? Is it safe? Will it Buzz? Is it a good way of getting a bigger sound spread. I know a 500 watt stadium rig is best but that ain't gonna happen! I just want to use my two small amps. Thanks Max