Horrorhiker

32 minutes ago, BassTractor said:

This may very well be a not-very-British thing to do (if the rumours about Britishness are true), but how about "mirroring" (see caveat)? With an open attitude and in a friendly voice, one speaks:

"When you <do this or that>, that comes across as <this or that>. Is that your intention?"

Then, when the seller is of good will, one will often see a dramatic change in attitude. In other cases, one could either speak to their boss or just leave.

 

To me personally, this is about accepting that people have off days, and about giving someone another chance. Some sellers will tackle the new situation whilst others will not.

Caveat: I learned about mirroring when working in child protection services - in part as a family therapist. It may well be looked down upon in other circles. I really wouldn't know.

I learned about mirroring too and it really opens your eyes to peoples intentions. My experience is that when you point this out to people in Britain though is they take it very defensively. 

Things in Britain you can talk about: Weather, football, immigration. 

Things in Britain you shouldn't talk about: Feelings, death, other peoples intentions. 

The rumours are true. 

I think Youtube among others has created a lot of insta-musicians. Impressing themselves in their bedrooms (oo-er) but quickly finding out that playing in an actual band involves a lot more than just hearing how to do it. This means there are a ton of poor quality bands around and either really good musicianship, or some great stage presence/gimmicks can get your head above the rest. 

I have mostly played original stuff for most of my playing life, and in that scenario you really need both to do anything other than what is essentially playing for friends imo (though its hard to believe, looking at a lot of up and coming 'professional' bands). 

On 3/12/2018 at 14:49, disgrace of bass said:

I’m not going to name and shame. I’ve sent my thoughts direct via email, but I had a perfectly awful experience at a specialist Bass dealer today. I don’t for one moment think this is necessarily representative, indeed I hope it isn’t! 

I was on business in the area, and as I am in the market for a new amp head, I thought ‘what better opportunity?’. I drove there, parked up and walked in.

Ignored. For quite a period. When a young fella came into the sales area he was - how shall I put it? - apathetic. In fairness he was never unpleasant or rude, just disinterested. I told him my interest, but getting info out of him was like pulling teeth. I asked about the relative merits of different products, but got non- commital replies.

Asked about used, told they had a head I was interested in, asked about its age and condition, just told ‘its in very good condition’. No effort made to bring it out or show it to me. At the price quoted if it really had been that good I’d have purchased then and there. 

No offer of demonstration. 

No feeling that my presence, let alone my business was valued.

No incentive for me to buy. 

I left with a wallet full of cash that they could have taken off me.

I have to say the whole experience was most disheartening. And someone else will get my business.

If the shop in question is the one I think it is, I was just going to add that I have been considering going for a bit and have decided against it due to several bad experience internet posts and anecdotes. They are dotted around the net on various different platforms, and although I wouldn't usually 'cut my nose off' as some have put it here, what worries me is that the reviews are all talking about the same specific issues, despite being in totally different places, from different times, and are fairly well spread out chronologically. This tells me that the problems are consistent, long standing and most importantly, not learned from after bad feedback. Interestingly, the pattern also includes a bit of smarm following each problem, with no changing of attitude, which is even worse.

I would say this is a good reason to raise grievances like this. Everyone has an off day, and maybe writing off a place due to one bad experience is rash, but a consistent lack of consideration for customers walking in the door is inviting people to go elsewhere, and how else will consistent bad practices be challenged? It won't happen by just individually moaning a bit AFTER handing over your money, (that's advocating bad practice), but shared experiences being exposed on forums like this. 

A lot of people here probably have a good idea of the shop that's being talked about..which kind of highlights how much of a problem there is. 

Good on you for bringing it up AND challenging it I say. 

5 hours ago, disgrace of bass said:

To those who feel I should have contacted the store in question...please re-read my original post! It was the first thing I did. Before starting this thread. It was meant as a general sound-off, not to demonise what I otherwise regard as a reputable business, which is why I took pains to keep the identity of the offender's totally anonymous. 

It may not be the way you would have done it, but hey, it's a free country for us all.

An update. I received this morning a very nice email from the store owner. Very professional, very apologetic, very positive. As in all these situations, there was more than met the eye. Suffice to say said employee feel below the standards expected of him by his employer, and it has been dealt with. 

I can't say fairer than that.

Selective reading. It's the old internet adage at work. Never let the facts get in the way of an internet 'like'. 

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

 

I had a Cort GB74. It had a slimmer neck than I like but it was a very well made bass. However the electronics were very disappointing, especially the preamp. Still... they're not that costly, and I got mine used for £150 (yup), a beautiful natural/maple one that weighed just over 7 lbs. 

The Sires... I have just tried a 5 string V7 (Jazz) and I thought it was incredible, especially considering the price, but even at a higher price. I have heard of them being heavy but this one was not overly heavy. Judging by the quality of that one, I'd definitely keep Sire in my radar. It was very very very nice.

The Sire P7 comes in some nice finishes... the least favourite of mine is the Tobacco sunburst... but it seems to have the J pickup farther from the bridge than the others, and that could be a very cool configuration.

Ah cheers. Food for thought there. 

On GAK at the moment, you can pre-oder a Yamaha BB734a for about £630.. 

That made me twitch a bit but I'm waiting for some overtime to come through at the end of the month so im holding my nerve, plus its ordering from GAK which can be...eventful. Its also very tempting to just order a Sire based on Feedback. I'd get the Natural Ash P7. 

150 for that Cort sounds like a bit of a steal. Im seduced by the wood grain and clear scratch plate, but again reviews are very good. 

I'm using one of the new Rockbasses at the moment. Im trying to force myself to love it but can't, but am making a little headway and am currently on 'quite like it' so its taking the heat off. Just have to avoid alcohol and arguments with the wife..the two things that make me click 'add to basket' quickest. 

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I sense that the Model T may be heading for the exit. But it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Right?

You ever been a fan of the Yammy BBs as another, but distinct and much loved, take on the P/J format?

Think we spoke about it in another thread but the BB734a has gone back to the top of my list now. Looks to be good bang for buck and a no brainer if you want a PJ. 

I'm tempted by a couple of cheaper basses, the Cort GB74 and the now obligatory Sires, but I think one of these will be a bit later on, and to supplement the BB as a practice/back up bass. I really want a keeper now after a lifetime of 'average' basses. That's the loose plan anyway. 

12 hours ago, mcnach said:

Well... I've got the bass.

Today I was home at 4pm from work (today it was a very early start but literally 4min away from home, so it was nice to be home before the traffic even really got seriously bad).

It was doubly nice as I had arranged online to have the bass stay at the depot and for me to collect it. I received a confirmation with a note stating that they were open until 8pm and that if not collected today it'd be sent back. Well, they attempted to deliver anyway, and ended up leaving it with a neighbout. UKMAIL... I can't tell you just how many times you've failed me like this in the past... at least this time they actually left it somewhere I could get to it quickly, so l was lucky, but I'd have been really annoyed to go to the depot (13 miles away) to find they again said one thing but did another... 

Anyway... I got it out. I haven't weighed it but it's not heavy, which is a good thing. It does look as nice as in the photographs... or better. Mine has a very nice grain and I love the tint in person, very nice and warm. 

It had a rather high action for my liking, so before I even plugged it in I changed that. I had to lower the saddles quite a bit and tweak the truss rod more than I expected... so I was worried the high action was hiding uneven fretwork... but nope, I got it really nice and low and it looks like the frets are all nice and even, the nut is well cut, and it's a very nice neck to play. Pretty shallow profile.

Then I plug it in, with the preamp (Bass/Treble) set at the centre detent which I assume is flat, and both pickups on (blend control set at the middle)

And it's ok. 

Not great, not bad. OK. I'm very underwhelmed here, especially after all the anticipation.

There's some funky harsh midrange going on that I am not loving, especially slapped. Bass end of the P pickup was a bit too overpowering, perhaps due to my lowering the strings? I bring that side down a bit and things get better... but it's not a lovely tone. 

The bridge pickup... reminded me of why I didn't like a 75RI Jazz bass I had, which was equipped with a set of EMG J. They really are not my thing, and boosting bass a bit doesn't really make it thick enough, it still sounds way too clean for my liking with a lot of top end and some added low end on top... 

The neck pickup... hmm. Ok, I actually like the neck pickup a bit more. It's aggressive, and it has that mid-growl that I love on Precisions... but it's still a little 'unrefined'... so I turn down the treble a bit. NOW we are starting to get somewhere.

This bass comes with Ernie Ball nickels 45-105. They are not high tension, but when I use these strings I prefer their 45-100 set and only really after I've played them a bit. I really dislike the brightness they have when new. I generally hate new strings. I don't want them dead, but I struggle when I change strings until they are tamed a bit. So here we have a bass with strings brighter than I like, and pickups that are probably brighter, or at least with an extended top end compared to what I prefer... so not the best combination to impress me on a "first date".

I played a little more, turning down treble almost to max, and it is nicer but I'm not fully feeling it. I miss having a semiparametric mids control... the treble frequency is quite well chosen so when I cut it works the way I want it although it doesn't cut quite enough. The bass... I don't really feel like adding or removing. I wish it had a passive pone control and a semiparametric mids control instead.

At this point I look at it, put it down, and go away to do something else. I'm thinking that I should be very careful with it, not mark it in any way, because there's a good chance this bass will be returned: it is a perfectly fine bass... but I'm not really loving it and I don't see myself using it that much after the "novelty" wears off.

...

I'm pretty much sure that I will return it. But I decide to give myself until Monday to make up my mind (it just leaves me tonight and Wednesday night, and Sunday night, as I'm busy the rest of the time).

...

Then I have another go, after I've eaten. This time, crucially, I'm using backing tracks (some random funk/rock/reggae ones I find on youtube, as well as stuff from my own band). And now things start sounding better. 

About an hour and a half later... I'm leaning towards keeping it, but I'm still 100% sure.

These are my thoughts at the moment:

The bass feels very nice, the neck is just my kind of neck (I could do wider, but it's wide enough and it's shallow so it doesn't feel chunky but it's got "meat"). Cosmetically and physically I have no issues here. It's not the lightest bass but it's not a heavy bass at all, probably a bit lighter than my Stingray.

The preamp... I'm not a big fan of. The stacked knobs don't feel that great, a bit 'gritty' even if the operation is noise-free. The treble is just right in terms of the frequency centre that I like to cut, especially with new strings. I wish it cut cut a bit more than it does. The bass... seems a bit lower than I'd like... but then that's usually how I feel with most preamps. I miss having control over the mids. I'm used to the John East mids module, or the 2-band Stingray preamp which after years of use I instinctively know how to set so that I get the sound I want. This preamp doesn't seem as interactive as the Stingray one, but there's still some degree if interaction and I'm not yet familiar with it. As it is, I still would like to have a bit more control on the mids... and if this bass was to stay, I can see replacing the preamp in the future for a John East mids module, and using a passive tone control. But not in a hurry. I'd imagine most people would be more than happy with the EMG preamp, I think it's just me being almost obsessed by the John East preamps, of which I have a few :D)

The pickups... 

I still don't love the Jazz bridge. It's too clean and thin and I can't thicken it the way I want by adding bass to it the way I can on a J-Retro preamp with any other standard Jazz pickups I've tried. However... with both pickups on, you get a nice sound, with a bit more midrange than usual for a P/J combo but still somewhat scooped... but here is where the blend knob comes handy: just turn it a bit towards the bridge... and you gain clarity very nicely, still sounding fat and punchy. For THAT reason alone, the EMG Jazz deserves to stay. I'd never use it on its own, but it allows me to control the midrange when using both pickups, and it's what makes me not too worried about keeping it stock. It's a sound that on its own wasn't that nice.... but when playing along to backing tracks it started to make me smile. It sits very well in the mix, but it still has a nice presence.

The EMG P pickup... now, this is a LOVELY sound. It's not a traditional vintage Precision type of sound at all... but it still sounds like a Precision, and it has that low midrange growl... hmmm... This is a very good sound! No more to add... it's just a really good Precision sound. Aggressive, but taming the top end just sounds incredible. In the mix it sounds really really good. Powerful, strong presence, but not overpowering. 

It's the EMG P that probably swayed me the most towards keeping it. I'd probably use this bass as a Precision most of the time, and sometimes with both pickups on. But it makes me wonder... what if I just put an EMG P into my cheap but lovely to play Squier Mike Dirnt Precision? I suspect I'd end up with something I really like, and save a bunch of money. 

So, is it really worth it? Should I keep the Model T? I'm not sure.

It will not replace my Classic 50s Fender Precision, because this one has THE classic Precision sound. 

It will not replace my passive Maruszczyk Jake P/JJ, because this one has righteous funk and reggae sounds and the JJ pickup at the bridge is a very useful sound by itself... although it doesn't do very well the classic Precision sound.

But the EMG P on the Model T is completely grin-inducing once I tamed the treble a bit. I think once I put a set of stainless steel DR Fat Beams, and let them get 'funky' for a couple of months, the Model T could sound pretty awesome. But... the tonal adjustments onboard are not my favourite options, and I'll never know 100% until I use my preferred strings for a bit... Some argue that if you say "this bass is great but... " and then start saying how you'd shape its sound with EQ etc, that it's probably not a 'keeper' bass. And in my experience, the basses that are surviving any culls are the ones that felt and sounded right from the start, regardless whether the strings were my favourite, new or old...

It just seems that £700+ may be a little too much for an instrument that doesn't completely floor me (as nice as it is) when I really do not have a need for a bass like that right now.

So... I'll retire and meditate for a bit, then play some more... and see how I fee in a couple of days.

Amazing lowdown, thanks very much for that. 

I think you've persuaded me to at least definitely try one out before ordering anyway..which is clearly a good thing. 

I think one of my concerns seems like it's founded. It's that in America, this bass is £100-150 cheaper and maybe that is where it should be here. I'm considering a Maruszczyk Jake or something like it and it sounds like it might be more sensible to put this money towards one of those. I don't have a 'main' bass as such, just a couple of middling ones and this doesn't sound like it would stand too far above the others. 

I know what you mean about new strings, I'm the same. I would say though that with this your starting point should be "This sounds great", and then gets even better the more the strings get their 'character'. 

It really sounds like the bass would be ideal for someone who wants the particular sound it gives, or is ok with a few compromises to 'look the part'. Good to hear it looks as good as you were expecting and you didn't find any wet paint on the 'fake inlays' ha ha.

Thanks very much for the write up again. I'm still keen on it, but maybe in an, admiring across the room, sort of way for now. My bank manager thanks you. 

I'll be interested to hear how this develops. 

8 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

There was a thread on here recently about the lengths that online 'tutors' etc go to get people to click on their videos. I sense another attempt.

 

"I get the MEANEST BASS TONE. You won't BELIEVE how I did it". 

4 hours ago, jimmy23cricket said:

I have one of these. Opted for one over a Sandberg and US Fender due to the fact it runs P/J EMG's (which work for me)

I can say that they are very good basses. Good size neck, lots of sound options and quite well put togeather with good components. Really dig the retro/modern take on it and gets lots of comments from folk.

It is quite heavy for a modern bass, but I kind of like that.

 

 

Ooh. There are a few of us with our eye on these. Can I ask, did you buy it blind or try it first? Also, can you get a good P bass type tone out of it? It sounds great for getting a bit of poke, but havent heard much purely from the neck pick up on videos etc as far as I can tell. 

I'm weighing up around about the same type of decision. Lakland/Sandberg/US Fender/YamahaBB....or this. As ive said a few times on this thread, this one looks the nicest to me. Just a bit of a gamble. 

4 hours ago, Most basic of bassists said:

Hello, I'm a 20 something year old bassist from Norwich, home of the hillbilly rednecks of the UK. I started learning bass not long ago after nine years of playing guitar as I was after a change and I quickly felt like my whole musical skill set improved quickly when I picked up the four string and I have fallen madly in love with it too. I have recently formed a band with a guitarist I met in a studio and we then invited a keyboard player to join us and he accepted. They both sing very well (I try to) but we still need a drummer! I like to play many styles of music such as rock, metal, blues, funk, world music, more laid back acoustic stuff etc. Some of my favourite bassists include Jack Cassady, Bruce Foxton, Peter Hook, Cliff Burton, Tina Weymouth, James Jamerson, Justin Chancellor, Horace Panter etc. I am currently sporting a wonderful Ibanez which I play through a Fender rumble. No pedals though, I like to keep my rig simple when playing bass and the rumble has a wide range of tones I can get from it. Hope to meet lots of cool low enders on this site!

Hello neighbour. I'm 'roight' near you in Suffolk (near Bury St Eds). I too have a ridiculous accent, so share in the pain a bit. Welcome, I'm quite new here myself and have quickly burnt my retinas by compulsively checking the classified ads and discussing what basses to get next, 24/7. It's a great community. 

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

Maruszczyk

And what's with the 'painted' fret markers comment... he says they even go over the side of the fingerboard...

They are ebony *blocks* and yes, they are inserted from the side so that they're visible. 

Some people...

I wonder if they did in fact get a fake somehow. You can't mistake blocks for paint can you? 

It looks better and better with each video. Really punchy sound. And we know it can handle mellow too, by that other guys vids. 

I use one almost exclusively due to the music my two bands play. I found eventually that less is more. I used to use the Little Big Muff Pi and actually found it easier to get a good tone than with the Bass Big Muff I have now. I keep thinking about going back, but the ability to blend with the clean signal on the bass muff stops me. That is a great feature. I also am considering the Deluxe Bass Muff. There's one on here for £65 at the mo which is great value, just wrong timing cash flow wise.  

Boosting the mids is essential (for me), and the loss of the lower frequencies don't bother me. I usually boost these back via the amp. It should be said that I go for the 'bass as rhythm guitar' approach in one of my bands, which isn't every bass players cup of tea and sounds better for that band with boosted mids and treble.

I would say that a Big Muff is far more versatile than people think. If you get the tone right, throaty, full and powerful,  it really can wow people. 

12 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

True.

But sometimes one just have to take a leap of faith and risk it. If I don't like it, back it'll go, I'll lose postage costs but that's the only way to try one around here it seems.

It's all because of this damn snow... it's given me far too much time to think about toys!

In fact, if it weren't for the snow... instead of clicking "buy now" I'd have been driving to a gig! But it has been cancelled due to the weather. I'll call the bass "Snow". I should receive it on Tuesday... but I would not be surprised if there are still some delays as there must be a huge backlog with just about every courier.

Oh so you've actually pulled the trigger? I shall be waiting with baited breath on this one. I predict greatness tbh. 

2 minutes ago, cattytown said:

I did wonder if he actually had been sold a fake.

That is a possibility. If you look at Schecter feedback, most people say that build and quality control are well above the price point, in fact they are famous for it. That review does go against the grain, though the other one is a bit lukewarm too. Puts the value much lower than it costs. Bearing in mind it's £100 more expensive still over here compared to the states does make me think that I'd be better off seeing one before buying blind. 

26 minutes ago, mcnach said:

 

One review.

Terrible review, but one review. He says he liked the sound and he could set it up nicely no problem... but complained about finish flaws and that the fret markers were painted. I'm happy to take my chances, I've read worse reviews about a Stingray

Yeah it's the first actual bad review I could find, and it reeks of sour grapes for some reason.

FYI an older, regular Model T has appeared on Ebay. Ash, maple neck..looks quite nice. It's in Birmingham which is too far for me but might be worth a look to get an idea of quality etc. I wouldn't have thought It'll go for too much. 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schecter-Model-T-Bass-Guitar/112846248469?hash=item1a46291a15

Quite a lot of love for the Model T session on a recent thread on here. 

This popped up today. Not the session, but an earlier, more basic model. Thought it might be a decent alternative for someone wanting to check out the Schecters. Bit far for me unfortunately, as is in Birmingham. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Schecter-Model-T-Bass-Guitar/112846248469?hash=item1a46291a15

12 minutes ago, Kevsy71 said:

Surely the best response would have been "Howdy, partner!" 

ha ha, I wish. Not out of the realms of possibility either. Quite a thriving country and western scene 'round these parts. 

Just to cool you guys down a bit, here's the bass equivalent of a cold shower courtesy of a couple of Amazon reviews. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schecter-2848-Model-T-Session-ANS/dp/B00SGSI1RC#customerReviews

48 minutes ago, Rich said:

Why do people do that? All she needed to say was "Sorry, my mistake. Anyway, as I said, it went well..." and just carry on as normal. It's the 21st century FGS, surely we should be well past the point where someone's sexuality is the cause for Lego-face or hole-digging?

I know. The guy said it happens all the time after the nurse went. He was having a laugh about it. 

Just now, Geek99 said:

even so, even a moments thought would have brought out "Can I help with anything" rather "its for your son, is it ?" money is money, whoever its being spent on. 

Reminds me of a thing that happened the other day. 

My Dad was in hospital and the guy next door got wheeled back from an operation where a man was waiting for him. Deadly quiet in the ward with several visitors sitting around.

The recovery nurse says to the guy "It went well..I take it you're Dad"

"No. I'm partner". 

Everyone in the ward made a face like they just stepped on Lego, and the nurse goes bright red and continued to dig a massive hole for herself for ages. 

As you say, a moments thought would have gone a long way here. 

1 minute ago, mcnach said:

 

I had a well-off girlfriend a while ago... I went with her to try some Alfa Romeo car at the local Alfa dealer. Neither of us looked like we had any money, because that's just how we dress... There were a few slightly condescending remarks from the sales guy, until she said "nah, I'd just do a bank transfer for the full amount, no need for finance"... I wish they were a bit more professional. You can't really judge by appearances. That guy that shows up with a big Rolex and impeccably dressed may just be maxing up his credit cards...

Back in Spain with another girlfriend, we went to a restaurant that I knew to be very good especially for steaks. Waiters dressed like ship captains etc put me off a little, but the place was very good... so I put up with it. Again, condescending attitude... until I order wine and I go for what I knew to be a nice bottle of wine (my father loves his wines so I have tried a wide range and know a little about what I like), and then the guy's attitude changed. Why do you have to wait until I somehow "prove" my worth to you? Snob attitudes really annoy me... 

Of the few local millionaires I've met, most of them looked really scruffy actually. In their free time at least. If you've got it I suppose you don't feel the need to show it, or something. 

It is annoying. The satisfaction of changing peoples opinions of you right quick is quite mouth watering though. 

And ships captain outfits are only ever ok if you're talking the Starship Enterprise in my book. 

6 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

That’s not quite what I’m saying. The care industry, like many others, is low paid, but the responsibility is for the well-being of people, especially vulnerable people and/or those who can’t look after themselves. This is a labour of love, and whilst very important and noble, isn’t quite the same as working in a music shop. There’s not really much commitment in the music industry and a music shop doesn’t have pay, rewarding work or a supportive working environment - basically it’s not a career but a stopgap for most. I’ve worked in music shops, and whilst I cannot compare it to working with vulnerable people (although I would challenge you to find a role now, paying what I earned in my first music shop job - well below £10Kpa for a full time role including working every Saturday, 45 hours per week!), it was pretty soul-destroying. The sheer amount of timewasters and chancers, none of whom were ever going to buy anything substantial, wears you down over time. It’s also not that much of a surprise that the industry attracts a lot of people with some quite significant personality problems! I had people to whom I had been very pleasant, accommodating and understanding shout at me down the phone, a number of attempted thefts from the shop and a significant number of people with a sizeable chip in their shoulder - hence my comment about flouncing out in disgust when shop staff don’t fall at your knees! Of course, we should not tolerate poor staff or service in any environment - but customers can be hell, too. 

Im also a biker, and if you think service is poor in a music shop, try your average motorbike dealer...

Yes I get what you're saying. My first job was in Tescos. Tescos at Christmas really shows you what humanity is really like. I suppose I try and take the same attitude I have at work everywhere but not everyone is the same. I do argue that the care industry is in a bit of a state because of the low pay and bad conditions not attracting the right people so I guess I'm contradicting myself there and being a bit idealistic, but when I hear people moaning about having poor pay and a bad job, I often have to bite my tongue so i don't blurt out a load of poo related horror stories. 'still think your job is bad'? ha ha. 

Ideally, everyone would treat people with respect but I fully appreciate that this doesn't happen very often these days. Without wanting to get too political, the buy now, pay later, have whatever you want without working for it, disposable product entitlement culture has led us to where we are in my opinion. And I've been as guilty as anyone else on that score in the past, though am trying to resist it now as much as possible. Bit like a reformed smoker ha ha.

9 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

You should either treat or pay people well, preferably both. If someone does neither, I try not to go there. 

7 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

Hear hear.