goonieman

Excellent - thanks a lot. That makes sense and should be easy now!

Thanks for this.

MY problem is with the terminology in the diagram more than anything. For instance, what is the difference between 'centre' and 'barrel' in the diagram?

...and when you say "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]battery(-ve) and preamp(0v) are connected to the ring and sleeve " , do you mean "respectively" - or that they are wired together?[/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]thanks again[/font][/color]

Hi All,

I can't quite figure out this jack for an active preamp.

http://www.axetec.co.uk/axetec_media/sckt07_connections_550b_2.gif

Jack tip (Signal +ve) is hot, right? [white?]
Jack centre (signal +ve) - battery ground?
Jack barrel and case: link the grounds?

thanks

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1438980609' post='2839236']
It's going to need appropriate hardware, though...
[/quote]

This is an excellent point. If you're going the 'rat rod' route - which is awesome - bear in mind 2 things:

1. There is PLENTY of effort ahead of you in terms of finding and force-rusting the parts you desire, and
2. You will never recuperate your investment

If you're happy with these two aspects, then go full-bore! I'd love to do something like this and would love to see the results!

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1438965994' post='2839075']
Poor bass players... 'Anything will do.'

Can you imagine guitarists having the same discussion?
[/quote]

That ain't NEVER gonna happen! I can tell you this as a guitarist.

I think its very important to choose a bass you identify with - not just what is around (unless you're a hardcore post-materialist punk, a hare krishan etc etc.)

I still maintain the Warwick $$ is the best bang for buck in 'swiss army' department. Apart from that, you're talking a classic vibe jazz at entry level. The rest is string, fx, and amp selection.

For me - a Warwick Double Buck ($$). German models are ridiculous value for money if 2nd hand.

Passive, active, single coil, humbucker, series, parallel (for each pup!). Plus the awesome warwick tone and 24 frets.

me please! (PM'd)

me please! (pm'd)

[quote name='chrisanthony1211' timestamp='1438625280' post='2835904']
Don't do it! Sell me your flea, buy a stingray with a status neck and pocket some dosh! :-)
[/quote]

ahhh... well, this is Fleabass... not a Flea Bass, i.e. Modulus. Sorry.

I wish it was of course!

Hi All,

I'm going to upgrade my fleabass - but not sure which pup to throw in. I've boiled it down to a EMG35HZ or Basslines SSB-4...

Preamp will be a 2-band stingray (retrovibe stinger). I'm worried that the EMG/preamp combo will be too sizzly. Is the preamp + SSB more sensible?

I'm going for a stingray / modulus / modern zingy capability, with plenty of thump and bark [if that helps ]

dang. I've never want a sixer before. Now I want a sixer.

dang.

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1438344297' post='2833726']
Any idea what strings [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Bakhiti Khumalo plays?[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Hard to find out... even Bakhiti will probably not remember, but I get a similar tone using chrome flatwounds on the bridge pup with the treble dialled-out quite a lot, a decent upper mid-boost, and plucking at the bridge.

phew...

Finally got around to finishing off this mini-project.

I installed a Spector Tonepump preamp (bought on this very forum from "discreet") to replace the passive and alarmingly bad electronics found in the factory original.

Have it set at vol/vol (stacked) / treble/ bass.

This preamp sounds as good my glockenklang 2-band, but has WWAAAAAYYY more boost. I've currently got it tuned around 33% on the trimpot!

Downside is that it picks-up RF interference much more easily.

Overall, I love the preamp. I don't get why people hate on it so much. They probably have it turned up way to far.

Lesson learnt (again): 1. try before you buy, 2. if you buy an older warwick rockbass, you might well be in for a 'doer-upper'.

Anyway, i'm finally finished. Time to sit back, have a cup of tea, and admire the beauty.



------------------------------
FYI - The history:

Arrival - bad news:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/266450-the-sad-and-tragic-failures-of-the-new-rockbass-streamer-fretless/page__p__2827979#entry2827979

..to fixing the neck:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/266615-the-slow-but-certain-resurrection-of-the-new-white-rockbass-fretless/page__p__2829805#entry2829805

...and documenting the neck work:

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/266615-the-slow-but-certain-resurrection-of-the-new-white-rockbass-fretless/page__p__2829805#entry2829805

yeah, I guess some copper shielding is required. The cavity is painted in conductive paint - but not exceptionally well.

My streamer or corvette hang fine. Well balanced. The corvette is Bubinga body and Wenge neck, while the streamer is pine body and maple neck.

The difference you will sense is that the first fret on the Warwicks will appear further away from your fretting hand. It feels as though the neck is elongated is away from you. This might take some time getting used to.

I prefer Warwick bodies, personally, because they are smaller. I love a good jazz bass, but the bodies just irritate me a little.

hmmm... but they're passive pups, into an active preamp?

Anyway, they work well: not muddy on the full setting. Just the right amount of treble...

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1438269716' post='2833100']
I've never heard of a battery being the cause of electromagnetic interference - though if you're moving the battery about that probably means you're also moving bundles of wires about with the possibility of movement at poorly made connections maybe? Looking at Tonepump wiring diagrams I see that some suggest using 250K volume pots and some (including the BP-4 module that your diagram indicates) say use 500K - are you sure the 250K pots are ok? This assumes you've got passive humbuckers too.
[/quote]

I would have thought that 500k would bring out the higher spectrum even more?

I have MEC passive soapbar pups.

It's odd, because my passive single coil MECs on my warwick corvette with glokenklang pre are totally silent!

I've emailed the designer of the tonepump, so i guess i'll wait to hear back.

thanks

Hi All,

I just installed in a Spector Tonepump into my 2 x humbucker bass using this diagram:

http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_2volume_rev2_en.pdf

Only I used a 250K vol pot, and added the ground from the bridge assembly into the ground on the jack (where the brown wire goes).

I gut this intermittent 'whine' when boosting the treble pot:, FYI:

[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Powered by 9V battery[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Current consumption 1,2mA[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Battery lifetime cca 420 hours, when using quality alkaline ones up to 1000 hours.[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Gain +12dB[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Tone controls:[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Bass: +14dB/-4dB @55Hz[/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]• Treble: +14dB/-12dB @6,5kHz[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I reckon its battery related because the 'whine' reduces and drifts when I move the battery around the compartment. Should the battery be shielded?[/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]thx[/font][/color]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1438188342' post='2832411']
Hate to be "this guy" but I've seen you mention using water to clean a fingerboard a few times now and it's really not a good idea. Water can raise the grain of Rosewood and is guaranteed to swell the wood at the fret slots which can lead to all kinds of nasty things. It's not a good idea even on a finished Maple board as it can get under any small chips, nicks or marks and crack the lacquer. Again I really don't want to sound like I'm having ago at anyone and hope you don't mind me advising against it .

Staying on topic, Ghost Bass's answer is a good one just make sure your chosen cleaning product has no silicone in it (if it's made for guitars chances are it won't).
[/quote]

No problem Manton... I've always used a tiny bit of water on a cloth - basically just to slightly dampen it. I wasn't saying soapy suds or anything, but I guess I should have been more clear.

I've never had any issues in 20 years with this, but I acknowledge some more wood-friendly cleaning material is more appropriate.

On the original post, I never knew that that the bass had no strings on! I should have asked!

Definitely follow Ghost Bass's advice.

[quote name='Grahambythesea' timestamp='1438163900' post='2832139']
although I am sure that now loads of flat wound string aficionados will detail the benefits of their favourite string make. I do use flats myself but find that a pre-amp equaliser is needed to colour the sound to my taste.
Good luck and have fun.
[/quote]

...and here is the first!

I prefer flatwounds on a fretless because I am into the 'Graceland' tones, but also really enjoy the super-fast feel of gliding around the fretboard without strings noise.

I use d'addario chromes at the moment - the 'custom' set, AKA balanced tension.

I also find that the 'mwah' from flatwounds is much more even and bloomy - you just have to lower the action.

Hi All,

If you find you are not getting even 'mwah' or buzzes, or just general weirdness, on your fretless bass neck, then this thread is designed to start you off in the right direction.

Having recently re-finished a fretless bass neck with very good results, I thought I would post some lessons in case anyone wants to learn, critique, or do this themselves. Note that I am not a trained luthier - just someone who likes to work on their own instruments.

The first thing I learnt is that doing a fretless neck is NOT easier than doing a fret job on a fretted bass or guitar. If you want top-notch results, with ability to go to lowest action physically possible (or near enough) then this job has substantially greater margins for error. The give away being the 'mwah' factor: at low action, differences in the resonant characteristics of the mwah are very easy to hear on a fretless bass. If you want a decent consistent shape, timbre and decay of the 'mwah' across the neck at low action (say... measuring 3/64ths on low E, 2/64ths on G, at '12th fret' - without the any strings depressed, relief at around 0.001 - 0.002 inches, measured with the bass IN PLAYING position, not laying flat - because the strings pull down due to gravity... ) then you have your work cut out for you!

If you are not feeling confident, then take your fretless bass to a pro technician... but beware: all techs were not made equal. I humbly suggest you show them this thread to ensure that they are familiar with the range of challenges one might encounter on a fretless bass job.

Here goes...

1. Do your homework

You gotta get familiar with the ideal shape of the final product. The final shape should not be an even radius across the board, nor should it be a compound radius. It should be...are you ready for this... an '[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]offset hyperbolic paraboloid' ! Yes, that's right. [/font][/color][color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Before you start, read this whole thread from start to finish: [/font][/color][url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/even-fretless-fingerboard-levelling-tips.905673/page-2"]http://www.talkbass....s.905673/page-2[/url]

Note the CAD images in the above thread. It is important you get your head around this idea.

Read this on the 'Mwah Interference Zone' as well: [url="http://fretlessbass.com/viewtopic.php?t=177&view=next&sid=6a66e2fd6c717dd2b029988aeaf53106"]http://fretlessbass....029988aeaf53106[/url]

2. Decide whether you want to:

a) use a neck jig, shape the neck with strings on, or c) shape with strings off. The last is the easiest, but less likely to give optimal results. The first is far more expensive... and finding a tech who does this is not likely to be easy. Option ( can be tricky, but not impossible if you use a long thin stew mac straight edge and if you shim the nut and the boost the saddles temporarily.

Why use a jig or shape with strings on? Because a rod under tension (truss in this case) behaves in WEIRD ways, and actually makes an odd 's-shape' in practice. This is called 'buckling' and research on this was made famous by Euler in studies of columns. see here: [url="http://www.fyldeguitars.com/blog/eulers.html"]http://www.fyldeguit...log/eulers.html[/url]

So if you level or sand the neck with no strings and truss tensions, then you are already off to a bad start. However, it is possible to do it - it just takes more problem shooting in the final stages. Read on near the end for that...

3. Get started:

Anyway you cut it, you'll ideally want a full length radius sanding beam to start, or a precision straight edge with 400 or 50 micron grit sandpaper stuck on. The 3M sticky plastic paper is the best quality in my experience. Hard to find though....

You'll want to level the neck with it as straight as possible to begin with. I will bet money that your bass has some odd shapes to it even when it looks generally straight. 'Straight enough' is not good enough! Use a straight edge to get the best compromise of the pre-existing errors.

If you've used a radiused beam, you can skip this step, but if you've used a flat beam, i'd suggest you gently radius the fretboard now.

Next, as per the link above, you want to level the frets IN THE LINE OF THE STRINGS. This gives the 'paraboloid' shape required.

I strongly suggest using the strings you are likely to use for a long time - this is because the balance of the gauge is likely to effect the shape of the neck. I use a balanced tension set of flatwounds.

4. Tailoring, and the 'dark arts'...

Ok, see here is where things get quantum. My view is that the higher guage strings need a touch more room to vibrate. I personally built-in a touch more sanding the lower I go across the string alignments. A true professional may disagree with me on this.

My view is that you should be aiming for a difference of 0.001-0.002 inches (use feeler guages under a precision edge) from the E to the G string.

Now finish the board with gradually lower micron sandpaper. As far as 15u or 9u (1000 grit).


5. testing time, and more 'dark arts'...

Tune the bass to concert pitch and do a full setup (documented elsewhere) - but note that nut height is critical and should be much closer to the board than most people think.

My relief preference on the G string is that it should basically be dead flat on the board - or ridiculously close to it. Less then 0.001 inch anyway. E string at around 0.001 to 0.002 inches.

Now do some slides down the each of the strings from high to low. Do this with treble pickup on max because resonance is easier to hear at this end of the spectrum. What you want to hear is a consistent timbre and shape of the 'attack' or resonance. You might get a drift to a more resonant 'mwah' the closer you get to the nut. The point of this is that it should be GRADUAL... with no 'squarks' or peaks or sharp drifts in resonance.

If you hear any inconsistencies, then what it will be at this stage is height errors that are within the 'Mwah Interference Zone- MIZ'. These errors might even be bits of wood dust, but are very likely to be 'bumps' of as little as 0.001 or 0.0005 inches that are within 1 -2 inches up the fretboard from where the string is depressed.

Different materials (such as the juncture of a filled-in fret marker or a fret marker made of different material) can also affect the shape of the note bloom in the MIZ, so be wary of this.

Get out your precision straight edge and feeler gauges and sand accordingly. Take it slow! You can take wood away... you can't put it back! This process will be more familiar to those who sanded their neck without string tension or without a jig!!!

6. Finish line!

When you have a nice steady change or consistent resonance dragging down each of the strings at your desired setup, then you are home free.

Remove the strings, and sand the neck with 00000 or super-fine paper and then oil the board, and polish with just a fine cloth.

7. Stop chasing the dragon! AKA the REAL finish line...

My end product is close to perfect - but not quite. The are one or tiny inconsistencies in the neck where the mwah blooms a touch more or less easily than others. Nevertheless, I have decided to stop chasing the dragon.

It easy to reach out for the sandpaper again and try to fix things... but if you're setting-up the bass to within very low tolerances, then you'll likely just make more work for yourself. Ask yourself, 'Am I listening to hard for errors', or 'will this "error" jump out in recordings or live?"

If you can answer honestly with 'yes' and 'no' respectively, then you'll be done. good luck!

I take it that you mean 'IC' = backbow, i.e. the fretboard is higher in the middle than at the two extremes? (and that this is the same for all strings?)

If so, you want to release tension on the rod but turning it anti-clockwise. Around an 1/8th at a time. Don't worry about the '1/8th every 24 hrs' nonsense - just wait a couple of minutes and observe changes.

On grime - i'd use a slightly roughish dishcloth and soapywater. For truly persistent grime, you could use a green scrubber pad, but you'd need to tidy the wood up afterwards with 800-200 grit.

hope that helps

A great transaction with Mark - I bought a spector preamp and it arrived super quick and well-packaged. Good price too!

For the sake of posterity - turns out that I need linear after all! I was one click away from ordering audio!

From Petr - (who responded same day!)

[b]The wiring for one pickup is here:[/b]

[url="http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_rev2_en.pdf"]http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_rev2_en.pdf[/url]

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]volume pot should be audio[/size][/font]

[b]Two pickups - balance, bass, treble & volume is here:[/b]

[url="http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_balance_rev2_en.pdf"]http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_balance_rev2_en.pdf[/url]

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]this balance pot should be linear - 2x500k/B or 2x250k/B for passive pickups, 2x25k/B for active ones[/size][/font]

[b]Two pickups[/b][b] - 2[/b][b] x volume, bass & treble is here:[/b]

[url="http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_2volume_rev2_en.pdf"]http://michalik.cz/images/pdf/bp-4_2volume_rev2_en.pdf[/url]

[font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]these volume pots should be linear, too - 500k/B or 250k/B for passive pickups, 25k/B for active ones.[/size][/font]

good idea. done that, cheers