BassInMyFace

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1335264925' post='1628151'] Too right! Always on a gig, be sure to make friends with the sound man - and the caterers. Then the rest is easy. [/quote] this could turn into a whole different discussion! how often is it that you turn up at a venue to be received by a surly, uninterested, often rude sound guy? what is it about the job that either (a) attract b*stards or ( turns you into one? it cant be that bad can it? hanging out at venues, working in an industry i assume theyre at least interested in and being paid for the privilege. its hardly forced labour is it?? anyways, appreciate the advice, and tbh by all accounts the front of house bass sound wasnt too bad. i was just surprised to hear such a thin DI tone from the direct recording. not too shocking when you consider it was likely a pre eq DI signal i suppose.

Hi folks, been gigging alot with my new custom shop armstrong magnetic pup. Sounds great through my amp even at ridiculous volume, almost entirely feedback free! Problems start when sound man takes di and is useless at eq ing bass. Last recording from desk sounds like my bass is a ukelele made of tin. (slight exaggeration there) In a perfect world all sound guys would be committed and knowledgeable, and ask house systems would sound great. not a world I recognise though! Is there anything I can do to help? Realise this could just as easy be in electric bass forum but wonder if you folks have any top tips. Post eq signals aren't usually liked are they? I could send di from dha preamp but still doesn't address how sound man will then eq signal. Also random venue stages are notorious for having poor monitoring so no idea how it sounds out front to make adjustments on the fly. Of the opinion that this is just the lottery we all have to face when playing random venues without a dedicated sound crew. Aaaah to hit the big time hey!? Any ideas gratefully received.

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1331723323' post='1577624'] The mag will hugely increase the volume you can play at without feedback. I'd be amazed if it didn't solve your problem. No harm at all though trying to understand the source of the trouble. Was the bass in the foldback mix? How far away from your bass was your cab? Was it pointing straight at you? Are you close to the drums? etc etc. You can ask would a different piezzo give you the same trouble? Would raising the can help? Would notching the frequency out fix it etc. Then worry about beachballs or IEM. You can experiment with most of these things at home or in a practice. [/quote] Oddly the feedback isn't affected by the usual suspects. It's just there beyond a certain (low) level of master volume. I think it's the old BP100 to be honest. When fixed to underside of bridge which is much flatter, feedback was much further away, but tone only acceptable with extreme eq'ing. I'm going to try some sanding and glue gun action to see if that helps and probably go for the armstrong magnetic pup too. Had an email response from him and it seems a great deal, very Friendly too. Can't believe he can do a custom job for 90 bones.

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1331665657' post='1576912'] I'm not here to scupper your plans I've got a resonator bass (hollowbody) fitted with a mag pup, which feeds back like a m****rf*****r. I agree, that different strings / pups / DB's / playing styles / amps / speakers / rooms / etc and any combination thereof will give different results. That's why it's trial and error. Electric basses don't feed back because of the solid body, unless you get really close to the amp. Don't be fooled into thinking that a magnetic pup will cure the feedback without resorting to other measures as well. [/quote] Balls. now you have said that of course i have seen acoustic basses feed back with magnetic pickups. i guess i was being a little hasty in expecting to find a simple solution. that said, a mag should be a lot more feedback resistant than piezo right?? a piezo is pretty much designed to pick up vibration but a mag is easier to tame?

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1331643231' post='1576369'] It's not the type of pup which causes feedback, it's the resonance caused in the body from the speaker. Using a magnetic pup won't reduce feedback any more compared with a piezo. At the end of the day it's trial and error what works best. I'm using a K&K bassmax which is giving good results and little feedback at volume. If you want a fingerboard click, then this is what I'd recommend. [/quote] Are you sure about this? Resonance in the body shouldn't be picked up by a magnetic pickup unless the bass is made of metal right? Yes resonance could transfer back onto strings but damping them with hand should stop feedback. That's why electric basses don't feedback. The reason piezo pups feedback is because resonance in body is picked up directly as vibrations causing a feedback loop. This is my understanding anyway, please correct me if magnetic db pickups still feedback. That would scupper my plans entirely!

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1331595382' post='1575719'] Hey Bassinmyface I certainly wouldn't see this as a deal breaker re Db. There is certainly a solution out there somewhere. What is the instrumentation of your band? [/quote] Drums, gypsy guitar, keys, 2 vocalists and a big old array of synths and samplers. It's the electro stuff that causes the problems, with electro beats and samples you need a big prominent bass sound to keep up. And yes in all fairness electric bass is probably the logical choice buuuuuut, it's electro swing and getting the db to swing and bring up the old time time sound really adds to the character we are trying to get. Old meets new if you see what I mean. For this reason I'm seeing the mag pickup as a perfect solution, it will reproduce some of the character of the db (hopefully enough to differentiate it from the EB) but have the power, punch and reliability of EB. Only problem is string choice, ideally I want nylon low tension to thump and click but so far can only really find the Presto nylon wound/ jazzicato that has a metal core suitable for mag pickups. There goes another 100 beans........

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1331574161' post='1575122'] The krivo i had was a couple of years back so maybe an early model . The good thing was that it sounded more woody than the stringcharger, which is the only mag I ve tried. It also had pole pieces you could push up or down to even out string volume. Not as cheap as a beach ball though, but if you try that its got to be one with pirates on it. [/quote] has to be pirates? all of a sudden its getting complicated again......

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1331568648' post='1574971'] You won't find much on the KA website. Aaron Armstrong makes the pups to fit your bass; you give him the profile of the end of your fingerboard. I paid £90 for mine, a very good price indeed for the product. You can mail him at [email protected]. [/quote] Hmmmmm, that sounds very reasonable. How does it sound then? Is there much db character to it or is it very much a electric sound. Any hum?? Does it pick up any fingerboard click as the Krivo purports to? Is there a mounting provided or do you need to screw it in?

[quote name='marvin spangles' timestamp='1331563953' post='1574859'] Then surely you'd be better off using an EB? [/quote] It would certainly solve a lot of this hassle, but that's all part of the fun isn't it!?!? If I can't find a work around I will have to revert to EB. Seems very early in my db career to give up tho. The DB has so far offered me a real insight in how to do more with less. Lines that would sound dull on EB are full of character and really add an old time feel to the sound. I'm playing stuff I would never dream of on the EB and it's making me a better musician for understanding a differnet approach to something that was so familiar. Don't hate me for saying this but it also looks damn awesome on stage!! I'm hooked and am determined to find a way. So far magnetic pickups are ticking all the right boxes in my head.

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1331556653' post='1574638'] Dont try the Krivo ,its plagued with hum problems that can make it almost unusable. Feedback comes from the front and back of the body vibrating,squeeze the body between you knees when playing-if this helps get a small inflatable beach ball push it into the bass side f hole and pump it up hard. watch you dont move the soundpost and away you go. Seriously, it works. [/quote] Wow, I love this tip, exactly what I was after in terms of a no cost solution!! I dont even care if it doesn't work, it has to be worth a try!!! Re the krivo are you referring to the older model as plenty of forum posts are concerned with that? Apparently the newest version is completely hum free and by all accounts looks to be closest a mag pup comes to sounding like a db and not a massive fretless p bass. Please let me know if you are familiar with the new version or would recommend any alternatives.

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1331555839' post='1574606'] The Kent Armstrong is a good mag pickup. If you order one, just make sure he prewires it and supplies a connecting lead/jack. I'd think a lot depends on the sources of the feedback. If it's from your own monitor, you can raise your speaker on a keyboard stand and point it across the band. you'll lose bottom but it doesn't matter if the FOH is doing the work. If the feedback is from stage monitors, even when the bass is not in the stage mix, I'd see a mag pickup as the answer. btw, you could always use both - a mag pup for on stage monitoring and a piezzo for FOH. I haven;t tried this, although I'm set up for it, but it might be worth a shot. The sound guy might even want to mix them? [/quote] Can't find any info on the Kent Armstrong pickup other than a very brief description on the company website? Seems odd as no tech specs whatsoever. Not a lot of choice when it comes to mag pickups is there? So far I have found biesele, krivo, schattler, stringcharger and something beginning with z from germany. Krivo is my front runner at mo. For me feedback kicks in whenever volume rises to drum kit kind of level. Eq'ing doesnt help and happens with multiple different amps and configurations. I think fundamental problem is amount of signal that the pickup gives out is very low. Therefore to get to any appreciable volume I am cranking the signal so high it is incredibly sensitive. I like the idea of a magnetic because it's low grief, with big stages and line checks only I need the dependance that magnetic can provide. A simple blend of piezo and mag will be nice and straight forward I reckon, especially considering primary concern is power and punch not beautiful tone.

[quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1331544731' post='1574308'] If you're using your own amplifier could you get a headphone line out and use a small in ear headphone bud in one ear to monitor yourself? Or find/add another preamp with a headphone out capability? [/quote] Did think about this, reckon it solves the on stage problems but not really treating the underlying cause of the issue. Thanks for suggestion and I will do some experimenting.

[quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1331543317' post='1574272'] Presto strings work with mag pick up, very similar to innovation in every other way. Innovation are working on a nylon set with steel winding inside. Fhole plugs work very well for small-mid sized gigs, and the few times I've played on bigger outdoor stages too, but I've not really tested on big rigs. Got a few festivals this summer, I'll let you know! [/quote] Yes, I found the presto nylon wound strings, seems like a genius idea. Anyone used the presto nylon wounds or the presto jazzicato? Seems like it could be a solution for me if I get a mag pickup cos then feedback is a non event. Anyone used the krivo hum bucking pup on gollihur? Seems like a good compromise for as natural tone as you can get via magnet, plus some fingerboard click gets in on the action thanks to enhanced microphonics (????!). http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2435-KRIVO_HUMBUCKING_MAGNETIC_UPRIGHT_BASS_PICKUP_INCLUDES_FREE_JACK_MOUNT.html

[quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1331496436' post='1573824'] Get a pre-amp. Keep your gain levels down, get your volume from master output levels. Block your f-holes. (Funnily enough I can rustle you up some smart f-hole plugs for a price...) Get an Underwood pickup. Or magnetic.... ( [/quote] am using the DHA DI EQ which by all accounts is a pretty decent preamp. do your F hole plugs make an appreciable difference? the idea seems solid but how effective is it in practice? anyone know if there are any nylon feel strings that work with magnetic pickups?

hi folks, my DB journey playing wise is going great but the nuts and bolts of using it live are pretty much leaving me scratching my head. im a electric bass player who took for granted pickups and massive rigs, turning up 10 mins before gig, pluggin into amp and let sound man do the rest out front. that doesnt work with DB does it??! so current set up is solid top bass (cheap and cheerful but a pleasant if slightly quiet acoustic sound) black nylon wound strings (thumpy and nice slap sound when i occaisonally give it a smack) DHA DI EQ (kindly loaned to me by amazingly generous basschatter TPJ) Fishman BP100 pickup (yes i know how most people feel about this but honestly i havent found it too bad, the tone is fine not quacky at all, you just have to experiment with placement on bridge and keep clips tight) so this is what i have and so far band rehearsals are ok. get alot of feedback through bass amps turned up anywhere beyond 1/4 so always a bit quieter than i'd like. gigs have been disastrous. outdoor stage in brum city centre, onstage amp cant go above 1/4 main volume without heinous feedback so tried getting some bass in monitors but cant get enough without feedback so end up doing the gig blind (or is that deaf). crowd reported that bass out front was very low volume, sound man struggled like hell. my concern is that festival season is looming and my band is lucky enough to be booked for 10+ large outdoor/tented stages. would really appreciate some pointers from you folks on how i can get a dependable stage sound that i can hear and punchy powerful sound out front. have to drive a 7 piece electro swing band so need a big phat tone. can i (A) get up and running with current setup? ( replace 1 or 2 items to get going or (C) money no object (short of a new DB or EUB) what should i consider? really interested in your thoughts as at present i have to consider resigning my lovely new toy to instrument graveyard and going back to dependable old electric bass.

thanks folks, i think im gonna leave these quotes alone. im hardly an orchestral soloist so contemplating selling the new bridge on here.

very quick one but in basschat's experience what is reasonable quote for luthier to fit new bridge? i have the blank bridge so its labour only and have been quoted £120 from one and £150 from another. this surprised me. does this seem reasonable?

A lively debate as ever, thanks for responses folks. Think my plan of action now is to wait for new adjustable bridge from gollihurs to finally arrive, get the action sorted and charge the band for a new set of silver slaps, or maybe super silvers, or the rockabilly ones, or maybe some weed wackers off ebay, or my corelli solo tuned down to regular, oh dear I've gone cross eyed..... If anyone has any secondhand sets lying around I would be more than happy to purchase. As bilbo said, its all about experimenting and I want to try as many as I can before committing big bucks.

Starting to get up and running now with the upright and am coming up against an issue. This whole string thing is a way bigger deal than electric bass and seems to be ridiculously crucial in terms of(A) being able to play the thing at all without gouging holes in your fingers ( sounding even remotely like you Want a bass to sound. So far I Have tried stock strings which were breaking at nut and bridge, flat wound and pretty disgusting. Job lot from bass chat Inc cheap steel core flat wounds which were very high tension and pretty uncomfortable. A set of Corelli solo tuning strings which whilst very nice quality, aren't useful practically for my style of music. At present I have a set of Superior sound silk core nylon strings bought from US on eBay. 25 bucks and a bit silly but have opened my eyes to nylon comfort. Trouble is the E is literally the width of a 5p piece and doesn't sit in the nut groove. Basically unplayable but you get the idea. My band is swing so realised that nylon or gut is probably sensible for that thumpy sound. They also allow me to dig in and play aggressively which is a crucial for this band where it's all About spectacle and heavy electro swing grooves. What are my options and please note I'm definitely averse to spending big money. I hate that trap of GAS which equates price with quality, obviously you get what you pay for but 150 quid strings cant be the only option. There must be a sub 50 quid set of strings that aren't stupid but will thump along and stay in tune and be friendly to fingers. I'm not being a tightwad but whilst I'm experimenting with string choice I don't want to blow big money on something that doesnt work for me. In summary, Nylon, gut or otherwise softer coated strings Tension medium or low Diameter not an issue as quite used to the giant superior sound strings now. New, used whatever Reasonably priced Music style, old fashioned thumpy swing mixed with modern electro/hip hop grooves, some minor slapping. Would be very grateful for your opinions because I'm a bit lost here.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1329484937' post='1543170'] Like an outrigger? That's often occurred to me but I've never tried it yet. My basses are characterised by small scratches on the top of the body just off the fingerboard where sometimes my thumbnail lands after the e is plucked. [/quote] Indeed, I've had mine less than a week and those scratches have already started! Just going it over in my head and can't think of a way to secure a lip without it becoming permanent. It would have to be very solid to actually work but can't think of a way to fix it without screwing/glueing. Probably a dead end but will have a think.....

Interesting. This seems a natural approach to the problem. Wish there was another way though because the thud of the hit on the adjacent string sounds and feels great. Perhaps a raised lip at right angles to fingerboard to allow fingers to smack against?? I might mock up a removable one to see how feasible it would be. Probably nonsense but worth a try.

Hi folks me again, very quick question. What is the accepted technique for playing low E string with right hand? You can't dig in and hit onto adjacent string cos there isn't one. Thumb on fingerboard and pull across a little gentler so as not to lose finger placement or is it acceptable to swivel round and use electric bass finger style technique? The E string is so cool on upright but I feel its not getting as much love because when you dig in, your fingers flail off into space. Not a major issue obviously as I'm sure I'll find my way but am interested to hear your take on it. Answers on a post card please......

Appreciate the offer Kai. I will almost certainly take you up on that!! have taken the plunge and bought a gollihur bridge and will see how much the local places will quote me to fit it. I think for the bridge fitting it's worth getting a pro to sort it. As it's so fundamental to sound I know I would just question every dead spot and rattle if I wasn't confident of the fit. For all the other set up questions I'm coming to you though!! You will rue the day you opened this can of worms!!