Bill-R

Hi Just wanted to add... Still have my Rockinbetter and its still going strong. no problems with in in the last 4 years... only ever had to change strings, still stays in tune for months at a time.... I'm more that happy with it and it was well worth the money for the plesure i have got out it.... thanks to all the guys for the excelt discusion....in the end nothing proved... only that i have a good bass that has lasted 4 years so far... seems much harder top find them nowadays....Cheers...

I think with a Ric you have the chance to get really control your sound, if you use the stereo output like I have done in the past and put one of the pick-ups through something like a pod X3 and the other pick-up into the amp then you have so much more control than you do with a Fender of Gibson. the greater choice of blending is something all basses should offer. its something you have to work on. My Rockinbetter does not have a stereo and I have thought of changing the mono to stereo and doing it on my other basses too, It on my next to do list. I also find it easy to get a McCartney sound or something a bit heaver like Lemmy, on my Rockinbetter and you can get without using the stereo.

I changed the tone to a tone-switch with the "Ric vintage tone switch kit" and that made a really big difference on my Rockinbetter.would say it was well worth doing. is the problem with the tone you don't like or how it feels when you play!!! the Ric do take a bit getting use to as there fret board feels flatter. well it does to me!

What Rockinbetter do you have, the 20 fret one or the newer 22 fret one, with the 22 fret one you have high gain pickups and are really very good and they well balanced and not that different from the Ric ones, the older 20 fret Rockinbetters did not very powerful pickups and maybe a good idea changing them. you would be better fitting the "vintage/modern tone switch kit" as that makes much more difference than changing the pick-ups. I did change the bridge pick-up to a Ric but changed it back as I liked the sound better with the Rockinbetter stock pick-up and it works well with the tone switch too. another thing to do is change how it wired, with the Rockinbetter it goes pick-up to tone and volumes and then to switch, and I changed it to the Ric setting of pick-ups to switch to tone and volumes.

[quote name='Lifer' timestamp='1361991105' post='1994158'] Guess I'll find out tomorrow While searching for it I read a lot of the Rickenfaker threads and specifically their use of litigation which made me wonder...how do Rockinbetter get away with it? [/quote] they get away with it as the do not have Rickenbacker on the truss rod cover. in the Uk the truss rod cover and headstock are tradmarked to ric since 2002. the body was never tradmarked in the UK. think its the same with Reblerockers in Austraila. both Rockinbetter and Reblerocker 20 fret basses are made in China in the Tokia factory. the 22 fret Rockingbetters are made in [color=#000000]Indonesia and again are made in a Tokia factory but they wont admit they make them, they are imported by Tokia Uk into the Uk and Tokia Austrailia for the Reblerocker. In the USA the importing of both basses is banned under there trade laws.[/color]

hi mine is 42.93mm at the bottom of the nut and 42.00mm at the top, mine is also the 22 fret and it has only one truss rod but its a double action truss rod. its is said to be better than than the two single actions truss rods. the older 20 fret Rockinbetters and Reblerocker do not have the double action truss rods. if you want to learn any more let me know!

i would also check it not the stereo output socket, it acts like a switch putting both pickups to the mono output. my friend had that on his jetglo 4003 and i changed the stereo socket and that worked, he never ever used the stereo output.

have to agree with iiipopes about not much changes over time with the trubass 88s, had then on my 5 string fretless for around 3 years now and still sound great. maybe not as much sustain as when new! but still ring out well. i have them on my beatles viola bass and they are only a year old and do sustan a bit more than my fretless. but even after 3 years of playing the 88s still sound to good to change on my fretless. i realy love the double bass sound of the 88s.

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1355856018' post='1903775'] I had thought your email had put this one to bed. And for the record, Tokai don't own a factory in China. Your email said that it was made in the same factory as the (cheap) Tokai (branded) instruments, the same as doubtless many other brands originate from the same factory. I'm not sure why there is the urgent need to associate the Rockinbetters with Chinese made instruments licensed by Tokai. It's probably doing Rockinbetter instruments a disservice. [/quote] have you any proof they dont own or part own the factory in China, they did say (Tokai) that they had sent over there top men to set up a factory in China, why do that if its only contracting out you guitars, and why is there a Ric copy shown in the Japan factory when they don't sell ric copys under the tokai brand since 1984. the China made Tokai all come from the factory that also makes Rockinbetter, we have no proof off any other Guitar maker having guitars being made there. that is all we really know so how can Tokai say that have no idea where Rockingbetters are made when all there dealers sell then under the tokai brand and say openly that there made in the Tokai China factory. there is more to this than meets the eye! here is a link to the Tokai China site, [url="http://www.tokaichina.com/"]http://www.tokaichina.com/[/url] i do not understand Chinese so I only looked at the pictures but it does talk about Tokai and no other maker!!! what ever the truth is, Rockinbetter is a very good bass and plays and sounds good and you are right it really does not matter as it does not change the bass in any way. here is what is said about them:- Part of the new to Guitars Plus 'Rebelrocker' range. These fine copy guitars are all based on famous Rickenbacker guitars and are made by the Tokai Chinese factory, and originally available only in the UK. As Rickenbacker have not been available via a distributor since 1999, it makes sense to have these high level lookalikes made available to the Australian guitar and bass players. This bass is available in 'Fireglow' also. Sounds authentic - even when unplugged. The Ace of Spades!!! Lemmy out of here.

I also agree that the RBX170 is a great starter bass. i have one and over the 5 years i'f had it it the most played bass i have, and still like its just out the shop. you can also set the strings very low if that what you like.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1355698762' post='1901652'] It does look nice. Nice detailed photos of all the guitars and basses but none of the front side of the headstock. [/quote] not the same bass as the rockinbetter. the pick guard is about an inch further away from the bridge pick-up. no checked binding and it also has the twin ric type stereo outputs. the rockinbetter has a single output. its the older 20 fret model. all the rockinbetters since 2010 have been 22 fret. in the picture of the black hardware one, you have a black no name TRC. the maple one the grain seemed not to match so not sure if its a thru neck or a set neck. hard to tell with the picture. other than that it looks not bad.

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1355696070' post='1901583'] That's correct. I've been in two guitar shops recently that had new Rockinbetters on display but didn't stock a single Tokai. [/quote] I got my Rockinbetter from a shop, Rich tone music and they said they were a tokai dealer but that had no Tokai guitars in there shop or listed on there site, maybe they only stock Rockinbetter as there Tokai guitars.

Just got an E-mail back. Hi Bill, Well it's a little surprising that Tokai Japan have told you that they have nothing to do with the RebelRocker/Rockinbetter basses, but not totally surprising. They're actually made in a Chinese factory. The same one that makes the Chinese Tokai guitars. So technically Tokai Japan have nothing to do with them apart from distribution. Hope that helps. Cheers, [size=3] [b][font="'Century Gothic"][size="2"][color="black"][color=black][size=2][b]Dean Bennison[/b][/size][/color][/color][/size][/font][/b][/size][size=3] [size="2"][color="black"][color=black][size=2][font="'Century Gothic"]Store Manager[/font][/size][/color][/color][/size][/size]

BigRedX you do not have an e-mail address for Jade Australia. i click on contacts and it says "E-mail" but when i click nothing happens. i would like to send them an e-mail and ask them about any conection with Rebelrocker and Tokai and see what they say. it you can get there e-mail could you let me have it and i'll ask them about it maybe you could ask too. thanks Bill

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355690215' post='1901453'] Jade Australia distribute lots of other guitar brands. You just have to be looking at the [url="http://www.jadeaustralia.com.au"]right web site[/url]. [/quote] Yes they do sell other brands but do not list them in the Tokai Australia web site. they are under there own name. if you open up the Tokai new models it lists Rebelrocker but no other make apart from tokai. if you watch the video of the Tokai factory on the link you gave, near the very end of the film there is a guy playing a RG43. the strange thing is there is no rg43 listed in the Tokai guitars only the Rebelrocker. if rebelrocker are a diffrent make then why put them on there tokai site and not list them under Rebelrocker. why show a rg43 being played at the end of the video about the Tokai factory if there is no branded Rg43 made by tokai.

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1355611186' post='1900666'] Again, that's another importer/distributor website, as it clearly states on the title page, owned and operated by Jade Australia: [url="http://www.jadeaustralia.com.au/index.html"]http://www.jadeaustr...m.au/index.html[/url] It's not a website owned and operated by Tokai Gakki. [/quote] As you say it is a distributor. they say "Jade Australia is the exclusive distributor for Tokai" and supply 49 dealerships, the only guitars listed on there site are Tokai apart from the three Rebelrocker, the one bass and two guitars. no other guitars listed other than Tokai! all guitars including the rebelrockers are shown with a Tokai badge next to the product. again you think that normal, you also think its normal that almost all Tokai dealers also sell Rockinbetter/Rebelrocker but there are none sold outside Tokai dealers shops unless second hand. I really did not think that Tokai made Rockinbetters or had anything to to with them since 94. i did think that Tokai made ric copys and then stopped and Rockinbetter started up and at first there was a conection. but now after seeing that only Tokai dealers sell them, then how can they say they have nothing to do with Rockinbetter if they know there dealers are selling them and there "Exclusive" importer is implying there made by Tokai. they seem happy with this set up. there is something just not right about all this, the fact you can't find who does made Rockinbetter or Rebelrocker is strange, the only paper trail is the importers and both are called Tokai. Tokai uk ltd and Tokai korea and both only supply Tokai dealers. i do remember looking at a rockingbetter in london in 1996 and almost bought it and it was along side a Shaftbury but i like the rockinbatter better. I missed out on that when i went back next day it was sold and I have been intreasted in them since then, always wanting once and now i have one and very happy with it and make no claim its a Tokai, its a new "2010 model. I'm not going to say any more as there is no way i can prove that Tokai have a conection to Rockinbetter other than being sold by most of there dealership and only there dealerships! have really enjoyed the discusion, thanks guys.

[quote name='afterimage' timestamp='1355607887' post='1900623'] I think it's down to play one yourself and makes the choice to buy or not to buy. Then maybe buy. Genuine Rick after or upgrade [/quote] I do think most Rockinbetter players will aim to get a Real ric at sometime in there life. but like squire player want a Fender and Epiphone players want a Gibson. its a step up to the real thing. not everyone can fund a £2000 bass.

If you check this link [url="http://www.tokaiguitarsaustralia.com.au/INDEX.html"]http://www.tokaiguit...m.au/INDEX.html[/url] its the "[b]Tokai[/b] [b]Guitars[/b] Australia" if you look under Vintage at the bottom suprise... suprise you find Rebel Rockers. why would a company only selling Tokai Japan/China guitars sell something that they have nothing to do with. am I the only one that thinks it strange that Australia Tokai dealers all sell Reble rockers. in the Uk all Tokai dealers sell Rockenbetter. but the say the have no conection to rockinbetter. if you click on the bass to zoon it up pops the Tokai badge next to the bass. it just does not add up. the have no other makes advertised only Tokai. there is something not right about all this! why would Tokai let Rockinbetter/Rebel be sold by there dealers and promoted as being Tokai made? and why give a 5 year warranty and a Tokai gig bag?

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1355604035' post='1900570'] Fairly elaborate explanation that could equally be explained by not being Tokais. [/quote] Yes i very much agree. but not knowing who is making them then you can never discount anyone either. I dont think Tokai have been involved in rockinbetter since 1994 and there would be only a small number of Tokai branded ric copys around after 20 odd years as the guitar only sold for 11 months and the bass was said to been sold for almost two years, after that Rockinbetter sprung up and only made 4 guitars, the Rb4003/1 and the RB43/40.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355602512' post='1900552'] I'm sorry but there still doesn't appear to be any real proof in your post that Tokai Japan have ever had anything to do with making either the Rockinbetter or Rebelrocker branded instruments. If the Rockinbetters have been made since 1994, then if they were anything to do with Tokai they would have at some point been Tokai branded. After all Tokai were happily displaying RIC style guitars with Tokai on the TRC in their 2000 catalogue (that's undeniable). If they had been making 4001/3 style basses I am sure that they would have been in one of the catalogues too. I'm still waiting to see either a Tokai Japan catalogue showing a 4001/3 copy or a photo of one with Tokai on the TRC. No matter how hard I look, I have yet to find either of these things. IMO that's because they do not exist. As I keep saying the only people linking these instruments with Tokai are people who want to sell you one. Pretending that Tokai Japan have something to do with then is a good way of hyping up what is ultimately a rather ordinary Chinese instrument with what is from an IP PoV a somewhat controversial body shape. [/quote] again you seem to imply that i'm hyping them up by saying there made by Tokai and i'm trying to sell mine. you could not be further from the truth. i love my rockinbetter and its a great bass. of my 5 basses it the one i play most. also from the very first post i said i thought my bass was make in korea and had nothing to do with Tokai Japan also said the Tokai Uk only started in 2002 so what happened in the 6 years before that, was it Tokai Japan that imported them to sell in there UK shops as it was only Tokai shops that stocked rockinbetter. what is proof is that Tokai did make RB43 other than the pictues of them with a TRC there are sone with just a blank TRC. and then the stoped making them after just a year when sales were good, and right away up pops Rockinbetter out of nowhere and has a plany up and running and selling the same Rg43. all around the same time Tokai was having problems importing guitars into the USA and court case in Germany with Gibson. then as if by magic no one knows where the rockinbetters come from but they started poping up just when Tokai stop making them. nothing strange there. now after 20 years of them being imported round the world, still no one knows where rockinbetter or Rebelrocker come from. why do most rockinbetters not have serial number????? why can no one tell us what factory there made???? someone is working very hard to keep us from knowing and who would not want to be conected with ric copys???

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1355601942' post='1900548'] This is a fascinating thread but going off topic slightly it got me thinking (yeah i know it's dangerous!) that all the Rockinbetters i've seen are RG4003s (Bound Body with Triangle Inlays). Some websites list an RG4001which doesn't have a Bound Body and has Dot Inlays. [/quote] yes the 4001 has the dot inlay on the fretboard and the body is more contoured, the 4003 has the triangle (sharks tooth) and binding.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355599137' post='1900512'] So you agree then that these "Rockinbetter" basses and the other non-Tokai branded instruments you've linked to in previous posts have nothing whatsoever to do with Tokai? [/quote] the bass i have yes. I think its a Cor-Tek Korea made bass and have always thought that. i think there are two types, the 22 fret Korea made one and the 20 Fret China one! are the two companys the same! i dont know what is true is that there is a company making Rockinbetter and Rebelrocker basses and guitars and no one seems to know who they are! the Rebelrockers are imported by Tokai guitars Korea and the Rockinbetter are imported by Tokai guitars uk Ltd. the have been making rockingbetters since 1994 but no one has found out who makes them or what the comapny is called. dont you think that strange! Tokai Japan say they have nothing to do with rockinbetter but won't say if the once had deeling with them! there is no guitar or bass maker called rockinbetter that I can find. did Tokai once subcontract there ric copys to someone that named then rockinbetter as the were worried about ric taking them to court, the guitars (RG43) have the same speck and you could not tell them apart not sure about the basses. . the Tokai Rg43 and the Tokai rg4003 were at one time made by Tokai. where they were licensed or contracted from china i don't know. but again that before 1994 and the Rg43 i have linked is Branded Tokai.

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1355598659' post='1900502'] No, I'm not. [/quote] sorry but i just don't inderstand what you are saying.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1355597855' post='1900487'] Sorry, but that model number is all wrong for it to be a proper Tokai. The letter prefix should have a "B" somewhere in it to denote bass - RG is the prefix for Rickenbacker copy GUITARS. The numbers are the price in thousands of Yen which would make your Rockinbetter cost approximately £20,000-£30,000 depending on the exchang rate; and then there should be a letter suffix indicating the finish.[/quote] I never said my bass was made by Tokai or that it had anything to do it Tokai in any way. what i did say was i thought my bass was made by Cor-Tek as it has CN1006 that is used by them and would mean it was made in S/Korea in a Cort factory and in 2010 and it was made in June.

[quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1355597284' post='1900477'] The difference being that those companies would have contracted Cor-Tek (correct spelling) to build an order for them. Again, that's not the situation for Tokai Gakki, which has licensed use of its brand name. [/quote] what your saying is Tokai Licensed someone in China to make there guitars but with there name on it. is that right!