NickA

I watched that in 1978 and thought "one day I'll get a double bass".

Does the dB festival still run?

I could tune the whole thing in fourths and play it like a 6 string bass ... I guess;  might need super heavy gauge for the bottom 3 strings which would be going down two tones.  But then, I think,the chords in genuine viol music wouldn't work out.  That earlymusicshop video says that much of the repertoire is written in tab so that you can play all kinds of scordatura without having to learn which note is on which fret with different tunings ... on the other hand you have to learn to read tab!

I was intrigued to see that you can actually get fourth tuning 'cello string sets for bassists wanting to play the 'cello.  Retuning a normal CGDA set to EADG might beabitmuch for a normal C string.  I've played a couple of 'cello pieces that invovle tuning down,but not up (EG Bach 5, which has a tone de-tuned A string, and the Kodaly solo sonata (the easier bits!) which needs the C and G de-tuned a semi-tone) these are written as if you are playing with normal tuning, so you read it, plonk your fingers in the normal place ... and unexpected notes come out!  Suprisingly easy to get used to and some strange and wonderful chords!

My "fret gut" arrived today.  I'd bought the wrong gauge (0.55mm and it should probably be 0.75mm) but tied it on and it works.  Oh my ... different tunings, different temperaments through variable fret location, different gauges of string and different gauges of fret!  A new clef and a possible need to learn TAB.  Music used to be a whole lot more complicated than a 4/4 12-bar in E.

Errmm  .... 'cello,  'cello,  violincello.  Medium size violin thing between a viola and a bass 🙂  What was I thinking about when I pressed post?

It's a Viola da Gamba or Basse de Viol or Bass Viol.  I think the Lyra Viols are a bit smaller and meant for playing really fancy stuff? (https://earlymusicshop.com/blogs/early-music-shop/introducing-the-lyra-viol). I knew almost nothing about Viols till this arrived and I had an ensuing long email conversation with Alison Crum who quite literally knows as much about viols as anyone in the universe (and has played with Jordi Savall no less).

Evidently I'm, getting a bit keen as I just ordered 1.2m of "fret gut" to replace the missing fret and now have to learn to tie "fret knots" and adjust the fret position.  Just read a long tract on tuning, in which the different types and flavours of 4ths was discussed at length.  Ha, you thought a fourth is a fourth is a fourth ... not with Viols it seems.  I recal my dad getting into a huff with a harpsichordist, because dad was playing open strings (as you should) but had tuned said open strings in even temperament instead of "just" temperament which meant he was micro-tones out of tune with the harpsichord; the harpsichord man refused to use even temper as "the cadences would not resolve properly". 

Whole nother world; I have trouble getting my jazz band colleagues to tune up at all 🙂

Brought my late dad's bass viol home to clean up and try to sell.  But I'm getting quite attached to it.  Should I learn to play it?

Up side, they're amazing things played well.

Downside, bass guitar, double bass and fellivto CELLO to practice and the damned thing takes ages to tune, goes out of tune all the time and you sometines have to adjust and replace the gut frets.  It has weird D, G, C, E, A, D tuning and the best music for it is in the alto clef.

sigh.

3 hours ago, BillyBass said:

the Magellan 350 would be cheaper, smaller and still relatively uncoloured and neutral.

Good call..if I could find a used one ...£500 new at bass direct.

Nice rig Dan, with lots of options.

I also got into pjb by getting a used flight case for very cheap off bass chat..but it's not loud and I missed the heft of my old trace rig when playing electric, so hunted down a used pb300. Together they are a great rig and either or both are lovely with double bass..if a bit "soft" for electric bass .

you're right tho, I don't need a whole bass amp, a simple power amp will do; some on eBay; £120 for 400w into 4ohm.  Might be worth a punt.

tho...now you mention it... I have a qsc plx3602 sitting in a cupboard at work

"offering up 775 Watts per side at 8 Ohms, and weighing in at a mere 21 lbs".

The 21lbs is an issue, but it's a superb amp. And as I'm in charge of the cupboard.🙂

Yes I'd fit a ply or ally plate and a speakon socket.  Maybe also a mains socket and a couple of mains outlets so I could power the amp and the flight case combo from one mains lead ..daisy chaining the amp input from the flghtcase line out.  A lot of boxes to carry tho.  Maybe the pb300 powered from an amp would be enough.

I had the pb300 apart last week to fault find ( found nothing, but it sprang back to life) and forgot to measure the impedance.  The six drivers are in three parallel sets of two in series, so if 8ohm each, the whole thing is 16/3 = 5.33 ohm.  I'll check!

The pjb d400 amp is 350W into 4ohm ( current limit ) and 200W in 8 ohms ( voltage limit ), so should be 300W into the 250W pb300.  Perfect, and confirms that a d-800 is overkill. The d-400 is still £550 + tho, which is more than I'd hoped to spend on a temporary solution.  Which is why I wondered if a gnome (or something) would do ...might even fit inside the pb300!?

Thanks for the other suggestions ...quite heavy tho.

Tempted by those pb800s. ... But for a similar price theres a used d800+ for sale.  If I chuck £700 at an amp I fear it would lead me into buying lots of cabs! Could get pricey!

1kW!!!  That would clear any room I'm likely to play in.

PJB watts tho not Trace Elliot watts!

Superb with double bass.  Had mine + a PB300 a few years now. 

Use just the flight case in pubs and rehearsals, flightcase and PB300 in bigger spaces and/or with loud drummers.  Super clean near HiFi stuff. 

Has a DI output which sound people love - so it's all you need when there's a PA.

+1 for that dual band compression.  And the valve / solid state blend input is rather good too.  The only downside is the number of knobs and sliders to play with ... when I had one I spent more time twiddling than practicing 🙂 .

Wish I'd taken the amp out the combo and put it in a box rather than selling the whole (1x15" and rather boomy) combo.

Following a previous similarly titled thread:

My PB300 powered cab has a niggly intermittent fault and may need to go visit it's maker for a while.  I'm thinking of sending off the amp bit on its tod and powering the speakers with one of those tiny class D amps until the amp comes home; then maybe flog said tiny amp on these pages.

Which of the various options is the cleanest most uncoloured one?  The warwick gnome is pretty cheap and will do 280W int 4Ohm = ideal for the 6x neo drivers in the cab.

... I had thought they would all sound the same; but then someone wanted a warm "tubey" sounding one - implying they are not the same after all (eg darkglass do one with two whole blendable distortion circuits = not for me!)

Great review.  I'm a big PJB fan myself with one of the combos and a powered extension. 

Starting to wonder if I should go the more modern way of a nice big cab and a tiny little amp.  Chose cabs to suit occassions without changing amps and modern amps are really light.  

Glad to hear the BP800 is so good; the BP400 is effectively what I have across the two combos (same pre, pluys a 150W and a 250W class D power amp) and it's a bit on the quiet side.  Shame about the loss of the compressor, it's pretty good (tho IMO not quite as good a the two band one in the old trace heads).  BP800 may be the way to go (that or a mesa d800 .... at a price!)

37 minutes ago, thewebow said:

4 months wait without trying one

5 years for a Wal.... Then £6k+ to pay.  Makes this a bargain for sure.

4 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

They double as anti-slap devices.

I better not fit one then 😁

As nice a fender p as they come.

Never heard of Mr Okamoto but a quick Google shows he normally plays a heavily triangulated precision called a katana (signature models in three colours) and that fender also do this one in Olympic white. So several signature models to choose from.

NB: Does anyone ever use those finger rests anymore? Okamoto doesn't... So why spec it?

11 hours ago, Ramsay777 said:

An incredibly bland one at that, EBMM have lost the plot on pricing.

sounds ok with Joe darts fingers and all his effects.... sadly those aren't included in the price!🥴

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Instrument amps by and large sound bad when used for hi-fi,

By and large, yes indeed.  But it depends on the amp... My 1980 carlsboro cobra was unlistenable to except for playing a bass through, the Trace that replaced it, almost Hifi if carefully tweaked, my pjb kit sounds a lot like my hifi ..  Hardly "coloured" at all.  Not to everyone's taste for sure.

Sure I read somewhere that Marshall made their amps more aggressive sounding by using cheap Russian valves.  But the consensus does indeed seem to be that it makes no odds ( and they're almost all Russian anyway 🙂 ).

I guess a lot can be done in a class d amp by tweaking the software that drives the pwm ... Surprised none of them have a "valve" button!

I voted stingray, because .... I like the sound of stingrays.  But the BB is clear second and being less biased ( and on grounds of flexibility ) should perhaps come first.  Better still if th P were reversed 😉

My old trace gp12smx had a blended valve input.. I used to crank up the valve sound as I thought it made me sound " more Jaco ".   Then someone pointed out that Jaco's Acoustic amps were solid state ( he was just turning up the built in fuzz- box .... and later running two amps with a delay line and chorus, but that's another whole thread!)).

I guess it depends what aspect of a tube sound you want; the compression, the clipping, the octave doubling..... 

There's a talk bass thread on valve amps Vs "tube emulators" which mentions what seems a good compromise in a little valve pre amp:

https://shift-line.com/olympic you can use it as a DI box or plug it into a super clean class D amp and sound like you have a big valve amp.

But doesnt the sound depend on the type of valve used?  There are some HiFi valve amps that are quite clean / linear and stuff like marshall guitar amps that would sound awful as hifi but amazing with a Les Paul played through them.  So how that olympic gizmo sounds must depend on the valve inside it??

Nice.  I had a bb2000 for a few years.  Funk monster. I sold it for £200 in 1998. Bad move. I'd buy another if I saw one.

Reverse P is the only P worth having; if only more makers realised that.  Through neck for a crisp sound and endless sustain. Marvellous.

50 minutes ago, JoeEvans said:

My fretless bass has clearly visible wear from round wound strings (from a previous owner, I use flats on it). You can actually see the marks of the windings. 

My ebony boarded Wal got that ... after heavy use over 25 years, mostly with super hard rotosound or elite stainless strings on.  A bit of wear actually improved the sound, but eventually it started to buzz and I got Electric Wood to plane it flat again .. no biggie.  Go rounds IMO, but some flats (EB Cobalt, Thomastic Jazz) work pretty well.

PS: re strings and mwah.  Yes rounds probably work best, but it's partly setup and playing method.  My DIY sortof Jazz Bass does it in spades with those EB Cobalt Flats on.  I tried the same strings on the Wal too, but their sound is a bit too distinctive if you want your wal to sound like a wal .. raterh than  "a bass with cobalt flats on"

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPJ_c2In-e7JCvPELaoAyCs726J5P2vgtJuVpKR

23 hours ago, Musicman666 said:

i'm really impressed with the longevity and feel of phenolic, prefer it over ebony, rosewood or epoxy..all used with roundwounds or groundwounds. 

Ebony and rosewood will be unavailable before long ... like elephant ivory.  Anyone tried that "ebonium" stuff ( made from compressed and cooked paper fibres I think).

On 04/12/2023 at 13:17, JPJ said:

So are we to conclude you have unlocked the ‘secret source’ of the Wal sound? Does this mean the people at Wal will either: a) take out a contract on you; b) send you a cease and desist; c) buy you out for mega bucks then bury your research? 😂

Electric wood are busy making super tidy perfectly finished basses

with optional gold dodahs, mother of pearl inlays and fancy wood stains.  Some people love that. 

I don't think exact replication of the sound will damage their business too much!