MiltyG565

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441382689' post='2858531'] I'm not entirely certain that certain bands' propensity to spam life trivia every five f**king seconds is the best way to achieve distinctiveness. [/quote] No, I shouldn't think so. Something I've noticed is that bands who post continually have no personality in what they're saying, bands who hardly ever post have lots of personality in their posts, but are sporadic at best. How does one strike the balance between the extremes? Regular interaction with fans is important when you aren't gigging all the time, IMO.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1441379484' post='2858490'] i only bother with facebook these days. its just easier to tell people "we are on facebook" without having to give out instagram and twitter handles [/quote] Yup, then you can direct them from your Facebook to your other social media.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441370506' post='2858361'] I think any working band that enjoys even the slightest modicum of success won't touch social media with a ten-foot pole (there it is again!), simply because they don't have the time or the inclination. As far as 'name' bands go, it's their fans that create the pages and do the work to promote their faves. My experience of online promotion is that it's a fantastic way to waste a huge mountain of time with little return. If you're online 24/7 promoting yourself across several 'platforms' you're basically not writing songs, recording, rehearsing, gigging and all those things that bands used to do to promote themselves before the advent of teh internetz. If ever I'm in any band that becomes successful enough to have dedicated 'fans', then I'd be more than happy for them to do all the piddling online crap that I wouldn't have time for, and wouldn't want to do even if I had. Peace out!! [/quote] But I'm not talking about 24/7 social media. I'm talking about having a following and keeping that following informed and engaged. Isn't it perfectly manageable to be writing, recording, and gigging, and also post a picture on Instagram, a post on Facebook, and perhaps a short Periscope of what's going on?

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1441369966' post='2858346'] The implication is that Discreet hasn't got any. Fans. I use social media to promote my t-shirts. It's hit and miss at best. Facebook limits the exposure of posts from artist pages...because they want you to pay to promote. Twitter is full of bots. Occasionally I do get a post that gains some attention and interaction but not often. However I'm a bit rubbish at it. Some of my peers have pages with tens of thousands of likes...or more. [/quote] It's not easy, is it? The thing is with businesses and bands, it can never simply be a place to announce a new offer, or an upcoming gig. People aren't engaged by that. There has to be a human element.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1441369782' post='2858341'] Instagram seems to be gaining popularity now [/quote] It's owned by Facebook, so I'm sure it shares very well on Facebook. Although it's not really an interactive kind of social media. I know people can comment, but they often don't, and the person who posted the picture often doesn't reply to them anyway. I suppose it's just a nice way to share images. I personally like Periscope - Any of you use it?

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441369575' post='2858337'] Fans? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-haaaahhhhh!! [/quote] Erm... I don't get it?

[quote name='amnesia' timestamp='1441367741' post='2858302'] Thats me. I don't need the gear I have. I could get the sound from much less expensive equipment I'm sure. I am an unashamed brand-snob. Absolutely no doubt. Not that I look down on people who don't have the most expensive kit - I don't - , I just choose to set my budget a little higher and I'm lucky enough to be able to do that and still pay the bills. Can I justify what I have spent on equipment? In a business sense? No. Not even slightly! But I don't have to...which is quite nice. [/quote] Can I just say how refreshing it is for somebody to be so bluntly honest about their consumer choices. This has put a smile on my face Thank you, Sir.

Just curious as to how BassChatters keep their fans up to date. I do follow bands and artists on Twitter and Facebook who don't have a big label running their social media for them, and although their posts do have a lot of personality, they are few and far between, and are often just announcing gigs. In my opinion, it's not enough. So what do you guys do? I'm interested in social media as a way to build an audience and get your name out and about, and I just don't see that happen when you have a few posts per month (unless they're the unusual ones that go viral). Facebook certainly is king for spreading the message, but there's a need for cross-platform engagement - Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and relative newcomer Periscope. Use them all to push to each other platform. They're all different too, and offer different ways to interact and engage with your audience. Twitter is very accessible, but a total echo-chamber. Instagram is entirely one-way. So I'm interested to hear what people on BassChat do to inform and engage with their audience.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441363704' post='2858252'] I wonder how much of it is Music shops spending more time and care setting up expensive instruments. In the days of 'Loot'. I went to look at a second hand Aria for a beginner. The neck was slight out of true, the frets were gunged up, the pickups were wonky and the bridge was all over the place and it was practically unplayable. I said to buy it (£70) and we'd see what we could do with it. If it turned out to be a dog I said I'd buy it off him. I spent an hour on it and we put new strings on it. He spend half an hour on it with a toothbrush. The thing came up beautifully and was a dream to play. I'm sure we all have similar stories. It's certainly something to think about. But there is definitely something else when you pick up a new instrument and it just feels right and I don't think it's all in the setup. [/quote] I once bought an Epiphone Thunderbird in a similar condition. It was an absolute dog, but I only paid about £50 for it. Took it apart and tidied it up, put a new set of strings on it, and it was grand. Unfortunately there's no real cure for the neck-dive on those bad-boys, so I quickly moved it on.

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1441357895' post='2858169'] Wonder if there has ever been blind tests done where people have been given guitars to play without being able to see the make and play through amps without seeing the brand. Be interesting to see if the expensive ones were the better sounding and feeling [/quote] Yes, I know that Lee Anderton and Rob Chapman did that once - A blind test between Squier and Fender Strats. One thing I seem to remember is them finding it very difficult to tell the difference.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441314369' post='2857932'] If we didn't, we wouldn't have anything to talk about. Every thread would be about three posts long; forum traffic would dry up; Ped wouldn't have any money to buy nice cakey things from Greggs and there would be lamentations a-go-go. That - my good friend - is why. [/quote] So you mean it's all a conspiracy? BassChat is part of the new world order? Jet fuel can't melt steel beams? The government's testing speed-of-light drones for bombing completely undetected? The Chuckle Brothers are part of a secret government programme to teach kids how to communicate effectively when moving things? Is nothing sacred!?

I find this "I sound great, therefore I play better" attitude quite hard to understand. I consider sounding great to be relative to the people you are playing with, not relative to other basses. When musicians are on the same wavelength with each other, they sound great. It wouldn't matter if you had the most expensive bass in the world or not, a great jam is a great jam. I've never seen something that sounded musically pleasing and thought "It would be better if he stuck on a set of flat wounds, but never mind", and I doubt many people have. So why do we get so precious about what we use? I just feel that it's much more fleeting and in the moment than that, and generally, tonality matters very little to most.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441300304' post='2857764'] RE: the gig that started this whole thread. It was of note that the tutors and students were using fairly basic gear. The backline comprised a Blues Deluxe and a Tiny Terror (IIRC) while that bloke out of the Kaiser Chiefs was going through one of those teeny £350 Ampeg Micro Stacks. The vocals and keys went through a titchy pair of speakers on tripods. In a 200-300 capacity room with raked auditorium seating the sound from such an unpromisingly 'basic' set up was remarkably huge and clear. [color=#ffffff].[/color] [/quote] I think the tiny terror you're thinking of was actually a tweed combo. I remember seeing one of those. That Ampeg micro stack was fantastic (and very portable!). And as you say, the sound was great. Many nights I have endured mushy guitar and vocals through a PA set up in the corner of a bar. I don't think it's the gear that got the sound so good, but the sound guy we had on the night.

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1441297164' post='2857722'] Ah, the old 'unjustifiable expense' chestnut again. [/quote] Looking purely at the facts, spending £2,000 on a guitar to play 15 £200 gigs throughout the year doesn't make business sense. [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441297972' post='2857736'] At the risk of further reinforcing my anorak status I must point out the guitar was a [i]J45[/i] - an instrument for which my GAS is without bounds. And such was my view having watched the post-workshop concert. But another thing struck me which I have subsequently discussed with a couple of close friends who play. In the course of the evening the 'student' acts were interspersed with performances by the course tutors. Lovely giving chaps though the tutors may be, their performances lacked the directness and apparent honesty that radiated from the students. There was an intervening veil - almost like a net curtain - that came between the tutor-performer and the audience; whereas the students made a strong, direct emotional connection. The tutors were clearly more 'musically accomplished' and not in a flashy way. Yet the sense of two-way communication was lacking, almost as if the self-awareness of being a performing 'musician' placed a kind of barrier between the performer and the audience. That 'self-awareness' detracted from the quality of the engagement. The students were communicating; the tutors were performing. It's a subtle difference and not to the discredit of the pro tutors. But it was noticeable to the extent that I turned my band's subsequent rehearsal over to a reconsideration of what we're trying to do. We chucked technical and tonal expectations out of the window, stripped some songs right back and focussed on just listening to ourselves and to what was happening in the silences. Big improvement. So thanks for the invite and for an illuminating evening. We should have done a selfie. [/quote] It was a very enjoyable evening, and I agree, the student performances were very personal and even moving at points. I was brought on a journey by some. Kashmir, although great to listen to, really didn't have the same emotional impact.

[quote name='geoham' timestamp='1441296113' post='2857711'] I play in a band with an orchestral violinist, and her violin is worth about the same as my house, her bow about the same as my car and she pays as much for a set of strings as some folk on here have paid for a bass! Of course, there are far cheaper alternatives, but she insists there's a clearly noticable difference in sound. Presumably her orchestra collegues are much the same. Personally, I think I'd struggle to tell the difference if they all played Chinese mass produced instruments.... [/quote] Ah, the world of classical music is indeed an expensive and unclear one! [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1441296155' post='2857712'] This thread seems rather too close to trolling for comfort. [/quote] No, just interested to know why cheaper gear isn't good enough for many "weekend warriors". If I provoked a response, I'm getting the answers that I'm looking for. Many people have given their opinions, which is exactly what I wanted.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1441294578' post='2857696'] I feel like acoustic instruments are a bit of a different case. I'd agree that it's not essential to spend a huge amount just to get out and get playing, and the nuances tend to disappear through an undersaddle piezo and a pub PA system. Having said that, the more expensive instruments which get some individual attention in their manufacture really do have something that the cheaper instruments lack, and this will come through in spades in the studio, in more intimate acoustic settings or mic'd into a high quality PA. Spending tens of thousands on something made from esoteric woods and dripping with pearl is still an indulgence, but I would argue that spending a couple of grand on a handmade instrument is not. I may be biased by having a classical guitar luthier in the family, but I can hear a degree of difference between a £500 acoustic and a £3000 acoustic which I cannot hear between electric guitars or basses at the same price points. I wouldn't laugh at somebody for choosing an instrument within their means, but nor would I dismiss the value of many of the higher end instruments. [/quote] I'm not saying that expensive instruments don't offer something more than cheap instruments, or that they don't have their place. I'm just questioning why some feel they need them for the local pubs and weddings band that many are in? So far the answer seems to be "because I like it", which is fine. Personally, I find it more important to disregard brands and "that tone" and go for what feels good to play, and will be a faithful workhorse for the many gigs the local covers band plays. Drunk people and the happy bride and groom (other combinations are also available) won't notice a jot of difference between the Faith and the Gibson.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441292228' post='2857651'] Although I'm a bit of a gear head I often find myself listening to the instrument rather than focussing on the song I'm playing. That's more in the context of solo acoustic guitar (which is my main focus atm) than in the context of bass playing in an ensemble where the minutiae of tone gets lost anyway. Sometimes I have to force myself not to think about the [i]nature[/i] of the sounds coming out of the instrument and concentrate instead on what the sounds are actually [i]doing[/i] in a musical sense. After a little while I settle down into the song and everything's fine. Gear can sometimes be an impediment to forming a communication. The danger lies in sitting there playing a particularly scrumptious chord and thinking 'Doesn't this sound nice and Gibson-y'. Two hours later the missus calls up the stairs and the song you meant to write remains entirely unfinished. [/quote] I must say when we met last week, first thing you said was "There's a nice Gibson J-32". At this point, I had spent a full 24 hours in the room with it, and hadn't even noticed it. I played lots of nice instruments, but exactly what they were, I couldn't tell you much. Nobody really discussed that. Everything was very much to do with making musical connections, not getting bogged down in tone and gear. And everyone sounded great!

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1441291759' post='2857642'] For the fairly light duty gigging most of us do, cheaper electric guitars or basses can do just fine, but I think if I were a pro with a heavy touring or recording schedule I'd want to spend a little more - perhaps not crazy boutique stuff, but certainly something at the level of a Fender or Musicman, the more no-frills end of small UK luthiers or even some of the better mid-range Korean instruments. There are all kinds of little things which crop up with heavy use, like the softer fretwire used on many cheaper instruments, or the quality of the electronics and tuners. These things can be upgraded of course, but not everyone likes to spend time tinkering with their gear. [/quote] Sure. Here's an interesting thought. What if you and your band have a few thousand fans internationally, and you do a European tour. Lot's of young, fresh-faced youngsters are so impressed and inspired by your music, that they decide they want to learn guitar/bass/whatever it is you play. But, being a hardcore fan, they want to sound like Beer from their favourite band (as kids always do). Wouldn't it be nice for your sound to be so accessible that anyone willing to spend a few hundred when starting out could achieve it? Isn't that a nice idea? Would it compromise the enjoyment your fans get?

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441291377' post='2857636'] One factor is how long the drill will last when it's being used on a daily basis. It's not just one job, but perhaps a lot of jobs. The same would apply to an unreliable bass that failed a lot, but I don't think this happens with many cheaper basses. [/quote] I think you're right in saying it doesn't really happen. We all know that the electronics in these things are often so simple that they could have been designed by a radio repair engineer in the 50s...

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1441290869' post='2857627'] I get far great enjoyment out of playing through my current set up than I did playing the gear I had when I first started I undoubetdly sound better than I did through the ropey squire P and HH amp I had back then... I now have a set up gives me exactly the tone i'm looking for... I find I concentrate more on my playing now I'm satisfied with how my gear sounds [/quote] I know a guy who regularly buys very expensive gear, and gets bored of it, sells it, and buys something equally as pricey. For a while, he had this great little Squier Strat that he bought used for £80. Honestly, it wasn't going to win world's greatest guitar, but all he used it for was a bit of teaching a playing at home (He didn't have a band or record songs). He was talking about it one day, and he said "I'm going to change this soon. I prefer my guitars not to be made from plywood". I tried to tell him that his guitar was legitimately made from timber, like any Fender or Gibson, but his pre-conceived notions about the name on the headstock wouldn't allow him to believe it. I have played guitars and thought "Christ, is that me playing?". It's a great way to stroke one's own ego, simply to have an instrument that accentuates the best qualities of your playing. It's also important to have an instrument that you feel comfortable playing. Is that why we do it? Egotistical w***ery?

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1441290549' post='2857623'] My mate bought a fancy gibson acoustic guitar. I laughed at him because it cos him £2000 or so and I thought this was a ridiculous amount of money for a guitar. I've played a lot of acoustics, and in my opinion anything mid range and up by yamaha, martin, taylor etc are pretty good. They each sound different, but you can get one you like that plays really well for £500 Anyway, I played this Gibson and while the feel was no better than other guitars I'd played, the sound was distinctly better. There is more low end produced by this guitar than any other acoustic I've ever tried. So, if I had £2000 spare, I'd get one [/quote] I think it's entirely unjustifiable today to spend £2,000 on an acoustic guitar. The sheer quality of some instruments at the £500 mark is incredible (check out Faith Naked series - absolutely beautiful!). There are low-key artists out there who play signature Farida guitars and basses, and they're far from Gibson money, but they sound great. And besides all that, the punters in the local pub still don't care about the minutia of tone, so setting aside issues of tone, why do we do it? Why do we laugh at some entry-level gear, when that could be what spawns a great career for a great musician?

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441289875' post='2857605'] Because the Lidl drill is not up to the job of being used by a professional builder, but an SX bass is up to the job of going on stage? [/quote] Who says it isn't up to the job? It's not about the drill, If you can get a job done with it, that's what matters, is it not?

It seems that most of you are saying that it's generally just an act of hedonistic consumerism. Interesting.

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1441289053' post='2857590'] I get frustrated most of the time on here because a lot of the conversations are about gear I can only dream of. I don't blame anyone for spending a lot of money on gear. I have a young family and am the sole earner so I made my bed so to speak. I play cheap JHS vintage basses through a hartke amp and TC cabs. All of them considered to be at the budget end of the spectrum but in 20 years of playing I have had lots of compliments about my playing but no one has ever mentioned my gear. [/quote] That's awesome! There are tone-hounds and gear-snobs out there, and they would quite disparage going on stage with budget gear, but the important thing is that you're bringing music to people, and enjoying it. Minor differences in tone are irrelevant, as many won't notice or even care, and in fact, it's hard to tell what the differences are when you play with a full band.

[quote name='4-string-thing' timestamp='1441287901' post='2857576'] I doubt many punters would know the difference between my £50 Jazz Bass copy and my 1970's Fender Precision. They are both the same colour and to their ears (and mine) both sound the same. A muso in the audience might, but would they really care that much? As long as it sounds ok and is in tune only a "gear snob" would worry surely? [/quote] I have to agree. Besides which, the quality of cheap instruments today is shocking good. Edit - Also, I've sold many instruments to many beginners and parents buying for their kids. Selling the virtues of tone rarely gains much traction. Parents look at the bottom line, and kids look at what's cool/pretty. [quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1441287932' post='2857577'] I have what I have cos I like it, what else needs to be said? [/quote] Well there are people who say that they're tools of the trade, and a builder wouldn't go on site with a Lidl drill, so why should they go on stage with, for example, an SX?