MiltyG565

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1441525553' post='2859410'] Absolutely nothing is wrong with a Squier. Absolutely nothing wrong with a USA Fender. Absolutely nothing wrong with a suit from George (asda), and nothing wrong with Ted Baker (insert any brand you like). That is why i feel this topic is a bit pointless. If someone says that they just like the build quality and reliability of a Fender bass, over a Squire, it seems to never satisfy you. Maybe that is why you perceive that people have their knickers in a twist. [/quote] You miss the point - Why can't I ask a group of bassists, many of whom gig in cover bands at the weekend in the local pub, why they choose to use more expensive equipment at these gigs when cheap equipment would generally suffice? The people who get upset at questions being asked are the ones who can't answer them. So far, one poster has had the balls to simply say that he bought what he bought because he just wanted it, and he wanted to show off too. He didn't get upset. He gave his answer and left. He said it like it was. All this "I bring two basses in case one breaks" and "I buy superior quality gear because it's more reliable" just seem like mealy-mouthed justifications for what is simply an indulgence, although so many here seem to be unwilling to admit that's what it is. If you want to play at being a big-time rock star, if you do it as an indulgence, if you simply have more fun that way, just bloody well say it instead of getting all upset when I don't believe that you bring two superior quality basses to the pub "in case one breaks".

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1441498781' post='2859369'] Nobody actually called you a 'Communist dictator' either. [/quote] No, quite right. I was flexing my tabloid journalism muscles there - sorry.

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1441496257' post='2859355'] if you have a made in USA Fender, you are a snob because a Squire would do the job just as well. [/quote] If one does have a nice Fender, what's wrong with somebody asking why they didn't opt for the Squier? Perhaps it does serve their purposes just as well, so is therefore also a relevant option. What is it about that question that has got everyone's knickers in a twist?

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1441495091' post='2859346'] I doubt that any weekend warrior type player frequenting small local venues buys a top end bass out of some perceived necessity but rather because they just fancy it [/quote] Sure, and that's what I wanted to find out - did people feel it was necessary.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441493828' post='2859333'] What was the point then? [/quote] Curiosity.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441493259' post='2859325'] Comrade??? Not sure I was the one asking people to "qualify" to own a nice instrument. [/quote] I didn't see that anywhere. Not from me, not from anyone. [quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441493259' post='2859325'] If it offends your sensibilities to see an average player in a pub band with a Wal hanging from his strap [/quote] Again, I haven't said that once. I'm not offended by it. Perhaps you should stop making stuff up now.

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441492240' post='2859311'] Asking questions is good. Questioning people's right to play what they want, how and where they want to play it, is antagonistic and pointless. [/quote] Read the thread again, Comrade. I never questioned that. In fact, I recognised it very early on in the thread. [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441290376' post='2857617'] It seems that most of you are saying that it's generally just an act of hedonistic consumerism. Interesting. [/quote]

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1441491391' post='2859301'] You don't need to justify your choice of instrument, stings, amplification or anything else to anyone except yourself. Why don't the people spending so much time worrying about the moral well-being of their fellow musicians spend that time becoming better musicians? maybe then they'd find it "justifiable" to own a more expensive - avoided the word "better" deliberately - bass? Just a thought... [/quote] Alright guys, you honestly need to learn the difference between innocently asking questions, putting forward a point of view, and bringing down the gavel in the USSR for unwarranted and illegal indulgences. I haven't forced anyone to justify why they have the gear that they do. I haven't said they don't deserve it, or that they shouldn't have it, simply that IMO it's not really necessary [i]for a local covers band[/i], and in some cases, perhaps a bit over the top. I spend my time in lots of ways, and frankly it's stooping to a pretty low level to suggest that my questioning of the phenomenon implies that I'm a poor musician. And you don't need to avoid the word "better". It's perfectly reasonable to assume more money invested in a product returns you a better product. I've never denied that.

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1441490983' post='2859297'] Yes, but it's [i]unjustifiable[/i] and you haven't justified it. [/quote] Apparently asking questions makes me some kind of communist dictator.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1441489023' post='2859275'] This thread might have a point if there was some inherent disadvantage to using a more expensive instrument, but there isn't ... [/quote] Aside from the cost factor and the law of diminishing returns. I don't disagree, however. Most high-ticket basses are better. There is an interesting phenomenon that simply pricing something higher makes it's disproportionately more valuable, which harks the old question "Is a Fender really worth it?".

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1441487344' post='2859259'] And that's so much worse than inverse snobbery? [/quote] Besides saying they aren't required for the local pub gig, what negative thing have I said in this thread about expensive gear? You see, I haven't. I haven't generalised that they're all [i]this[/i] or [i]that[/i], like you have generalised that cheap basses apparently can't do what you want them to. You're not the only one who isn't stupid.

[quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1441486007' post='2859246'] "M" when was the last time you gigged? Did you only take one bass? Ever broken a string? I would assume you take plenty of spare stringpings. I can't find a tongue in cheeck omoticon thingy. [/quote] I gigged last week, but on guitar, which is much more prone to breaking strings. I didn't even bring my own guitar. I didn't have a spare either. Got through it just fine. [quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1441485658' post='2859243'] I take at least FIVE basses to a gig. Then I get the musos to vote on which one I should use. Then don't use it. I find this endears me to my audience. [/quote]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1441483834' post='2859217'] Two basses at a gig? Yep, I don't want to be mucking about replacing a busted string or flat battery or knackered jack socket halfway through a gig, regardless of how big or small it is. Would I use a cheap bass? Nope, I want repeatable consistency and reliability - thats the standard I work to as a musician, and a tool that doesn't support that standard is just a liability. I don't want it rattling, drifting out of tune or treating intonation anywhere above the 12th fret as optional. [/quote] So... you bring two superior quality basses because of their reliability, but you bring two in case one breaks? That makes very little sense to me. They're either highly reliable, and therefore only one is required, or they're as fallible as all other basses, and you need two. It can't be both. Fantastic bit of gear snobbery regarding cheap basses, though. Also - Broken strings? Dodgy sockets? What the hell are you doing to the bass?

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441483879' post='2859218'] It was finished years ago. What we're hearing is just the farting noise that corpses sometimes make. Over and over and over again. [/quote]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441465339' post='2859089'] Well, we've now got clear laboratory evidence of what happens if you accidentally combine thread topics. Adding '[i]Why do people buy expensive gear?[/i]' to '[i]Is expensive gear better?[/i]' and '[i]Do you ever gig expensive gear down the pub?[/i]' results in bangs and smells. Back to the drawing board. [/quote] If only we could incorporate "which bass is best for metal" too, we'd essentially have finished Basschat.

[quote name='lonestar' timestamp='1441453166' post='2858995'] i also,have a De Walt drill for diy and a shed load of pro quality tools cause I quite like a bit of woodwork occasionally. [/quote] I enjoy a bit of woodwork too I used to be an apprentice joiner, but left that as the industry generally didn't fit with my values, but I do still enjoy doing a bit of woodcraft, and last year me and my boss made a pretty impressive shop counter. I've been enjoying this guy's tool reviews - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChWv6Pn_zP0rI6lgGt3MyfA

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1441413053' post='2858792'] I'd be a bit miffed if a keyboard player insisted on playing a piano part on a Hammond organ, or a guitarist played an acoustic part on a Les Paul through a cranked Marshall stack. [/quote] Why? A friend's band once played Sandstorm by Darude in their 4-piece rock band. It wasn't a faithful reproduction, as they simply couldn't make a faithful reproduction, but it sounded great how they did it, and everyone loved it. Isn't there something to be said for sometimes saying "We can't do it how's it's meant to be done, so we're just going to do it our way"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6120QOlsfU

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1441412197' post='2858790'] You don't have to but you aren't even accepting that others can have valid opinions that are right for them even though they are different from yours. [/quote] Show me once where I've said that your opinion isn't valid. The fact is that I see it differently, and you can't seem to handle that without getting all exclamation-marksy.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1441407610' post='2858768'] The I get everything you say and pretty much agree right up to this statement... For me what is required any time I play irrespective of venue or setting is an instrument I feel at one with and which I love playing. It just so happens that for me that is a bass that is hand built and would cost four and a half grand to replace new. Or it could also be a bass that cost me all of £250 to build... The cost/value/kudos isn't the point. How I feel playing it (and that is down to how the sound and feel fits me) is the point. [/quote] Sure, but then there are people who bring two and three basses to a gig in the pub so they get "the right tone" for a few songs in the setlist, which I find a bit perplexing.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1441405112' post='2858752'] We're telling you but you're not listening!! [/quote] I'm under no obligation to accept your ideas as correct, pal.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1441402013' post='2858726'] I've been following this thread with interest. Going back to the original questions posed I think there is a basic flaw in the premise, which seems to be that expensive gear is bought to impress the audience. I don't think anyone has ever done that. Or that different venues "deserve" different levels of gear. Of course, at any gig what really matters is the performance and how much it entertains the audience. Irrespective of the gear used. Of course. [/quote] I think you've almost got what I was driving at, but not quite. It isn't that I think that expensive gear is bought to impress an audience for local pub covers bands, more that it simply doesn't impress the audience, because it's only musicians who get so into the detail of such a thing, and that's just another reason as to why it's not required to have flashy gear. And it's not even that I'm saying that certain venues require certain gear, as somebody suggested earlier - utter hogwash. Simply that really expensive and boutique instruments simply aren't required in that setting.

The do do dos aren't directly connected to the bass, as BRX says, but for most of the song, the do do dos and the bass are hitting the same notes. Since the do do dos (starting to think that's a good band name) are more prominent in the mix at the lower end of the spectrum, it's entirely reasonable to listen to them to work out what to play. I'd forgive anyone for thinking that they were directly connect to the bass - that's how much it overshadows the bass.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441395778' post='2858676'] You shouldn't have admitted that. You could have let the mystery run for at least 12 pages first. Bit like one of those songs where everyone reads hidden meanings into it and the artist just says; "No, really. It's just a song about a plank of wood floating down a river." And everyone nods wisely. [/quote] Like Money For Nothing, which is literally a conversation Mark Knopfler overhead in an electronics shop in the USA, where a couple of the delivery men were commenting on the music being played on MTV.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1441388497' post='2858593'] if one has fans, they're doing it in one's stead. [/quote] In terms of promotion and getting new people on board with your music? Sure, fans do that. But fans also like to interact with the band, that's why bands and artists do things like Reddit "Ask Me Anything", they're an open opportunity for fans to ask a question, and potentially have them answered, and they're very popular. Bands should probably work out a way to bring a small slice of that into every social media post, shouldn't they?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1441382817' post='2858534'] To me the phrase "all the gear and no idea" refers to someone who has just spend a lot of money on expensive professional equipment but has no idea how to operate it. I'm not sure it applies to someone who upgrades their gear in the mistaken belief that better gear makes up for lack of talent. 'Eye' usually refers to how you see something, a point of view. As in "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". [/quote] It was actually me just trying to be funny, but I've made a horrible, terrible mistake. It should be "no-eye deer", not "no-eye-dear". From the popular children's joke "What do you call a Deer with no eyes? No-eye Deer". Furthermore, it was more of a tongue-in-cheek clickbait title rather than a comment on any individual or group (least of all Basschat, which is rammed to the gills with consummate professionals).