MiltyG565

55 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

I like seeing and talking to people I do business with. I've never and will never buy an amp or bass online.

Blue

This is something that some people really value. Not all, but definitely far from none. And I wouldn't say it was just the older generation either. I think it's really fair, and frankly what drives a lot of my purchase decisions is how I feel about the people I'm dealing with. The cold, faceless void of Amazon really doesn't do much for me. Yes, it's great if I want something cheap, and it's handy (I've just ordered some pens), but it doesn't know me, and I don't know it. The relationship I have with the likes of Amazon is very transactional. The relationship I have with other companies can be quite a bit more in-depth.

In a similar way, there are people who would rather send an email or do a web chat with a company, which is fine, but I prefer to talk to somebody. That isn't because I have some kind of issue with typing or reading, it just feels cold to me. One of the reasons why my customer satisfaction was so high when I worked for BT was because I called the customer, whether it was good news or bad news, I gave my customers the respect to call them and discuss it with them. Some of my colleagues rarely spoke to customers, and only ever sent them text messages. Some people preferred the text message, but in general I think people appreciate dealing with a person.

This turned into more of a rant than I had anticipated 😂

I guess one of the challenges that many shops face is being able to justify stocking higher ticket price items. Generally, people who have been playing for a while are pretty clued in on what they want next, and they'll do the research and buy it, and typically that means buying online. Unless you're a destination shop, like a specialist retailer or in an area well known for the retail offering, or some kind of boutique that has a successful online sales channel, it really is difficult to cater to anything other than the beginners and low-budget buyers. This is a group that often really values the knowledge and insight of sales reps in a local shop, who should engage with these customers in a consultative way.

2 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

If I needed a set of strings quickly then I would use my local music store, but seeing as they don`t stock the brand I use it would have to be a an emergency set, and their prices reflect that of a store and not an online outlet, i.e. much higher. When I used to use Rotosounds my local shop was selling them for £22, online I could get them for £14. I needed a set a month so doing the maths 12 x£15 = £168, or 12 x £22 = £264. Using my local shop would cost me £96 more per year - 6 sets of strings. I`d like to support the local shop but not to that extent, for the same amount of money I either got a years worth of strings, or a year and a halfs.

Rotosound are generally on the cheaper side in terms of strings, so £22 seems odd, to me. I remember buying Rotosounds for £14 about 6 years ago. It seems to me that with inflation, the price would have come up a bit in the intervening years, but not by £8.

Has your local ever offered to order in your preferred string?

1 hour ago, Dad3353 said:

It's really impossible for any retail outlet to have stock to cover what t'web offers, nor really match the prices, but the service and bonhomie can, and should, be a major factor.

I think you've really hit the nail on the head there, and from what others are saying in this thread, a large part of the reason they don't go to their local shop anymore is because they aren't getting a level of service they'd expect, and that really is something that should set-apart high street retail from online retail. That's something that customers should value so highly that they will pay a little extra over online prices for it.

I think the old retail method of stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap doesn't really work in today's world. People can get product online for the best price possible. Small establishments with expensive shop fronts simply can't compete with that. Even the likes of Poundworld, operating in a market that's seen phenomenal growth since the financial crisis, has gone under. Price is no motivator for people to leave the house - because they don't need to.

I'm a proponent of a "shopping experience", where genuine relationships are formed with customers, and they're offered something that simply can't be bought online.

5 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

There are three of us at home (drummer, guitar, bassist...), but our annual consumption of anything at all, be it strings, heads, instruments... whatever... would be less than noticeable on the balance sheet of any local outlet. The nearest to us is fifty km away; I've not been there for... well, even longer than that. Our Eldest (guitar...) is making his own electric guitar; we even had to scour t'web to find the pick-ups he wanted; no chance of 'em being in stock. They came direct from the States in the end, even cheaper than Thomann. Loyal customer..? Yes, in the sense of, if they have what we want/need, we'd go there, but it's so rare as to not be worth considering. The shop survives thanks to the music schools and private teachers, plus their local musicians that live in that town, but there's no money to be made from our commerce. I'd say, too, that we're not, in general, 'consumers' (swapping 'phones, buying CD's, 'fashion' stuff, hair-cuts...), and already have all we want/need.

Ok, fair enough - You don't buy loads of stuff, and you don't have a shop within a handy distance from where you live. Those seem like pretty compelling factors to not go to a music shop, or maybe to only go once or twice a year as a bit of an outing. What I'm really trying to get at is exactly what you do value about high street retail as opposed to online retail, not necessarily the value of your custom. What would be something worth making the 50Km trip for? Maybe there's nothing that could be offered that would entice you?

24 minutes ago, mentalextra said:

I often wonder what my local music shop would say to me to encourage me to walk in their door instead of shopping online?

What could that say or do that would encourage you to shop there rather than online?

I've been thinking quite a bit about retail recently, and as some of you may know I used to work in a small music shop a few years ago. I think that music shops really add something different to the standard town-centre offering of hairdressers, coffee shops, bars, and restaurants, but for them to be sustainable businesses, they rely on our custom, so I'm curious to know - What do you like about your local music shop? Why do you shop there? Would you say you're a loyal customer? What don't you like about it?

On 25/07/2018 at 07:45, Johnny Wishbone said:

D’Addario Pro Steels and Elites Stadium Series Stainless spring immediately to mind.

And like that, the thread was over before it had even started! Excellent suggestion, my friend! Exactly what I was going to recommend too!

Sounds like the ideal setup. Get everything loud and mushy, absolutely perfect!

39 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

So would you not let a homosexual male singer perform the song? 

What about the straight female audience members singing along?

Even schools do gender swaps on Romeo and Juliet, this can't be such an arcane idea 

If a vocalist did take issue with lyrics somewhere, I guess it would be down to them to say so, not down to everyone else to decide it's not good for them to sing because of their gender/sex.

4 hours ago, discreet said:

You wouldn't entertain the idea of a male singer for a Tina Turner tribute, would you..? Though come to think of it, that would certainly get you noticed... 

 I certainly would! How many guys are out there screeching their way through Maria Carey songs? 

2 hours ago, steantval said:

What do you mean it sucks.

The type of bands I have played in over the last ten years and the genre of music we play, we have absolutely no requirement for for female vocalists - fact.

It seems like, as with most bands, you have a requirement for a vocalist, regardless of gender/sex.

If you're really having trouble with female vocalists, maybe the problem is you and your band-mates, and not all women.

37 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

Yes, but we're evil now. All the way through, like a stick of rock with the word evil instead of Blackpool.

I think the thing is that at the minute, generations are being defined by their maddest outliers. The hard-brexiteers who have retired to Spain, the millennials that unironically call for safe spaces and no-platforming. The fact is most sane, normal people hold fairly reasonable views, and there's definitely an element of NIMBYism to most things - "She can be transgender if she wants, so long as it doesn't affect me", that doesn't necessarily mean somebody is for the cause, but they aren't really against it either.

What we've seen a lot of over the last few years is people trying to shoe-horn their beliefs onto other people (think marriage equality referendum and similar), and they generally lose. Most people don't care enough to be against something that doesn't really impact them.

19 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

"As soon as we hear that an artist has been asked to put their hand in their own pocket by a management company, big alarm bells start to ring."

 

Pretty much this. I appreciate that being a musician doesn't guarantee business or finance skills, but neither does it exclude basic common sense.

Giving significant sums of money to someone you've never met is simply not a smart move.

Ever.

 

Exactly.

It's a business deal, so you should know exactly who you're dealing with. Search for them online - What have they been up to? Is anyone talking about them? What are they saying? Ask around - Do any of your friends know them? Have any of your friends worked with them before? Would they recommend it?

Very basic due diligence. tbh, I do this before a job interview or even a date.

The cost of bass strings is just like anything else. Certain intrinsic and extrinsic market factors determine the price. A big intrinsic factor is the market size and ability to achieve economies of scale through mass production. Extrinsic factors being wholesale prices of raw materials (steel and other metals), exchange rates, import duties, labour costs, the list goes on.

The thing is that for the most part, the costs to produce a bass string are largely the same as the costs to produce a guitar string. Where they diverge is the amount of material required and the length of time it takes to make. So even though the wrap on a particular bass string may be coming off the same spool of steel as the wrap on a guitar string, the extra steel required and the extra time required for the bass string drives the price up.

Let's suppose, simply for the sake of demonstration, that one of the string winding machines in a string factory can do 20 guitar strings in an hour, or 14 bass strings in an hour. By the end of an 8 hour shift, a single operator could produce 160 guitar strings, or 112 bass strings. Looking at the labour cost alone, and let's say they get the current UK minimum wage of £7.50 per hour, that's £0.38 per guitar string, or £0.54 per bass string, and in fact it's generally accepted that the wage a employee gets is only about 70% of what it actually costs to employ somebody when you factor in all other associated costs like pensions and other benefits, so in the real world that's probably going to push the labour cost up to about £0.70 for the bass string.

That's before the material costs are considered.

The supply chains for these things is normally massive and global. Ore mined in Australia might be refined to steel in China, then shipped to the USA where raw steel is processed into components for strings according to the specifications the manufacturer has given, then shipped to the manufacturer, perhaps halfway across the country again, made into strings in their factory, then boxed up and shipped out to probably most the countries in the world. Supply chains on this scale aren't cheap to set up and maintain, and that's why volume production yields a lower unit cost, because the high costs are spread across a higher number of units, so any reduction in the number of units that can be produced means a disproportionately higher unit cost.

Hope this helps

On 31/01/2018 at 18:20, The59Sound said:

D'Addario XLs are a good solid all rounder. Like a pint of Guinness, you know you'll get something decent. 

I always found D'Addario to be the most consistent mid-level brand. High quality for the budget conscious. They do offer some more niche products which are more expensive, but I always rated their high-volume products much higher than similar brands at the same position in the market (Ernie Ball, Rotosound). And their steels just offer a different level of tone from anything else on the market IMO.

Big D'Addario fan right here, as you can tell 

7 hours ago, bazzbass said:

you bought it in good faith. Justin left it in a car overnight. I think Justin should give you $450, why should YOU be the only loser here?

I think the only loser here is you.

Both Justin and Andy look happy. Whatever arrangement they came to, they're clearly both fine with it.

On 11/03/2018 at 08:20, redd said:

Hi everyone,

I'm posting this story because it reinforces what a close-nit community that we musicians, and in particular, bass players are.

Some of you might have noticed recently I advertised on basschat a lovely Paul Everson Caiman bass for sale. 

I acquired the bass through a trade about a year ago with a guy who advertised it on Facebook. We met in a service station. I swapped a very nice 4 string Shuker bass for the Everson, had a nice chat with the fella who bought it and returned home.

Whilst we were talking the lad confessed to me that he had found the Everson Bass in one of those second hand chain stores that have 'cash' in the title. He knew next to nothing about basses but had liked the look of it and bought it. He then tracked down Paul Everson on Facebook to get some info about the bass. 

I loved the bass. It appeared to have been treated quite badly. The electrics were shot and it was covered in a weird thick dust. I had it cleaned, sorted and set up and quickly picked up another Everson that appeared on Facebook. 

That was around a year ago. I recently decided to sell the caiman. Id always had a little niggle in the back of my head about 'Cash _________' and wondered if I'd been a little naieve in my trust.

So to put my mind at ease I contacted Paul (Everson) who told me he had sold the bass through the great British bass lounge. I then contacted Drew who was running the lounge and asked them both if any Everson basses had been reported stolen. They both did some digging and came back with a resounding no. Drew had a record of a sale to a lad called 'Justin' who lived near Bradford (I'm in Macclesfield).

So back to present day. After advertising said bass on Facebook and BC I received a message from a lad called Justin who explained to me that this was his bass and that he'd had it stolen in early 2016.

I immediately phoned him and we discussed at length what to do. Now the dilemma. Justin hadn't been insured and had lost the bass along with a whole heap of equipment. He had been scouring the Facebook sites to try and recover the bass for the last 2 years. I had essentially swapped a 900 quid Shuker with it. The lad who had bought the bass oringally had moved the Shuker on. We were all victims of crime and it was a difficult puzzle to unravel. Justin had contacted Yorkshire police for advice and they had said it was a civil matter.

Anyway the final result is that we met the following week and Justin got his bass back. It was a great end to a saga and needless to say Justin was chuffed!

Just a big shout out to Paul Everson and Drew for caring enough about this story to help me with my clumsy detective work and a big shout out to Matthew who contacted me on behalf of (current) BBL.

The photo below is of Justin (on the left) recieving his beloved bass back! 

Moral of the story. Cash ___________ are a store I like even less now and Bass players are awesome folk.

Andy

What a lovely, heartwarming story. Such a shame that Justin had his equipment stolen, and that subsequently that cost fell on you, but I feel that if nothing else can be said on the matter, we can at least say you did the right thing, and Justin looks very happy to have his bass back - as well he should!

Brilliant story Nacho! As you know, I've always felt strings were a very important part of an instrument. It's a learning curve  

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1507532384' post='3386018']
Yeah, like that, but £800? Really?
[/quote]

Yeah, it's pricey, but it seems like a really powerful piece of kit. I can't imagine it was cheap to develop.

Guys.

I've found it.

You can all thank me later.

No "What's up guys" or "like share and subscribe", just flat-out tunes being made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qezRZpbElpY

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1486376255' post='3231148']
This is what I feel has happened to me, albeit a pedal. I think it is no doubt a floor model or a previous return. I don't understand why they don't keep a closer eye on returns and make sure they come back immaculate...
[/quote]

Because they're selling in an online marketplace, customers can return an item for a refund for any reason up to 28 days after they're received it. Some people will use an item once before deciding to return. Some people need more time. Some people abuse the system. It happens. But companies should make sure their outgoing stock is in good condition. Sometimes they will take a hit when the returns system is abused.

[quote name='T-Bay' timestamp='1485847725' post='3227080']
A mate at work had his internet banking account hacked and one payment of £350 went missing amongst others, he could prove he hadn't sent it and was refunded by the bank. There was a police investigation from the other end as the money was sent to a guy in Nottingham to pay for a camera bought off gumtree by the person who hacked his account. He was interviewed by the Police and was obviously fine but they told him the other guy was a student and was distraught as he had only been selling the camera to fund his car insurance and couldn't afford it any other way. My mate felt so bad about it he offered to donate a few quid towards the lads insurance and others at work agreed to chip in, he made the offer to the coppers but we never heard anything back. When he was dealing with his bank they didn't seem to need much evidence to do the claim back from what he said. He also said that the person he had dealt with had told him that people mistakingly thing its bullet proof but due to the amount of fraud on it they have introduced new rules a couple of years back which make it much easier to get the money back if needed.

Sadly for every method or protecting yourself as a buyer/seller there is always some scumbag trying to work around it.
[/quote]

This is true - Banks can claw-back transfers.

I had a customer once tell me we had fraudulently taken money from her account. She had a direct debit with us, and owed us a lot of money, so a lot of money was taken on the direct debit. She called the bank, got it refunded, and then cancelled the direct debit.

People are mental.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1486247133' post='3230393']
I had an issue with them last year, bought an amp, contacted them to make a return, tried telling me I was out of the returns period - because they waited for about 3 days before opening/replying to my e-mail. I challenged this, on the basis of simple mathematics, as in, just count the number of days from date item arrived to date of e-mail. OK, send it back. Then it took about 2 months of going from this person to that person, all of whom "were dealing with it". In the end I sent a very rude terse e-mail and from then it was sorted. Unless I absolutely have to, it`s unlikely I will use them again after that episode, however up until this time I`d never had any issues at all.
[/quote]

Just a classic example of how inappropriate handling of a fairly simple issue destroys the relationship between a customer and a business.

Stacks of groove.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqD602G90o

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1483700534' post='3209330']
I had a Vulfpeck-fest last night. Amazingly tight group of musos having fun. Great playing.

Davo
[/quote]

Totally agree! A friend and colleague was having a bad day yesterday. I sent her the Smile Meditation video last night, and she said it really helped. I think the pictures of smiling dogs is what did it for her

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1483701685' post='3209339']
What you do in private is [i]your[/i] concern, just...consensual, eh ?


[/quote]

Friend or foe, we can both enjoy the dugga dugga