BigBeefChief

I haven't been this confused since I had a crush on Tom Selleck.

The Jury is still out on you then!

Jake, Having read through my reply to Funkmonkey, my post does sound a little facetious. It wasn't intended. I was trying to establish if hearing him play was breathtaking to a bass player, or breath taking in general. Funkmonkey states that it was about the ability to have total musical freedom, unhindered by poor technique. I question if this creativity and musical freedom would be so apparent to those who don't study bass and, for want of a better phrase, to those who don't appreciate how difficult it is! I suppose there's not an answer. As a bass player its difficult to be subjective. Do you enjoy a piece because its musical or because you appreciate the skill involved? Or maybe a bit of both? Maybe its subconscious? I, for whatever reason, tend not to enjoy overtly technical playing. I see less value in studying it than most. I think that a lot of people study it for the wrong reasons. But its up to them. If you like listening to that stuff, great. I'm more than happy for you to exist on the same planet as me. Just don't play Jazz and don't be the front man of Jamiroquai.

Perfect example.

And while you were listening to him, did he "create" anything that could be appreciated by a non-bass player?

Fair enough. Its interesting to see the range of views surrounding this. Moving slightly closer to the original topic, I think that academic bass excercises are most useful for people who would happily work as a proffesional session musician (I'd assume the majority on this site??). Personally, I'd rather stick pins in my eyes than go down that route. My view is that if your good enough to go pro, be original, be yourself, have some fun. Don't waste it playing in overly technical supergroups that no one apart from musicians can understand. BGM loves to talk about being a working session musician like its the Holy Grail. Personaly, I couldn't give a sh*t! I'd rather be Nikki Sixx than Janek Gwidzala! (and before you ask, no I'm not a big Motley Crue fan - he just sprang to mind when thinking about non-academic bass players!)

I actually think that technical ability may hinder creativity. The majority of my favourite musicians are self taught or have little in the way of classical education. Maybe there's a certain magic created by trying to do a lot with the little that you've got? Maybe if you can't impress with technical ability, then you need to think of something else?

OK, it sounds crap to me. But personally I find that technical ability and making music I enjoy are often poles apart. This could be due to great technicians wanting to show off their ability and therefore moving away from those great, simple bass hooks that I love. Or it could be that those that aren't naturally musical rely overly on technique. Or they might just have different tastes to me. Who knows??

Fair point, and to some degree I agree that having a greater ability and more knowledge isn't a bad thing. However, what I don't like is the association between technical ability with being a great bass player/musician. Agreed, you need to have the ability to transfer whats "inside" to your audience, but you don't need to be the world greatest technician. If I spent 10 hours a day practicing, I'd be pretty good technician. I'd still be (by my definition) a lousy musician. BGM loves to put these people on a pedestal, lording them for playing with such "greats" as "Erki Boneflap", "Milton Stonebake" and the "Milk Lake Quartet". ie Music for Musos (the only people who appreciate their technical ability and can ignore the fact that it actually sounds pretty crap). Gwidzala may make a living by being a very good player but I'd rather listen to/ be inspired/taught by the bloke who wrote "Peaches".

Glad I'm not the only one. All I'd like is a bit of honesty. Whats wrong with admitting the new MIA Jazz is overpriced with little improvement? What's wrong with stating that a bass solo album is crap? If your brave enought to release a product/album to the world then your brave enough to get some honest opinion about it.

Agreed, I can't pan the mag for not catering to my needs, and I'm not trying to. I'm purely stating that personally the tutorials are rarely of any relevance to me. I find it strange that people are so impressed with technical prowess. It seems a lot of the people doing the tutoring in BGM are mostly popular amongst bass guitarist and very few else. Never a good sign in my book. But of course, thats just in my rather odd book. What I can pan the mag for are crap reviews, being badly written and a kiss arse mentality towards manufacturers. When was the last time it reviewed an album and said "utter sh*t"? Lets face, most bass solo albums are but BGM refuses to recognise this. Maybe the mag feels a sense of loyalty to these artists and solo bass playing as a whole which clouds their (better) judgement?

Personally, the issue for me stems from being taught "lessons" by people I have no desire to emulate, in an overly academic fashion. To some this is interesting - great. To others like me, its not. You may tell me that Janek played a stormer at the 2003 Luton Solo Bass Festival, but this really isn't my scene. I'd rather sound like Lemmy. As for style analysis, I learnt more from the full transcriptions in the Punk Issue than Dave Marks' articles. These isn't a dig at him, far from it. My view is that styles develop naturally through playing the bass lines of your idols, not through learning in a classroom. Again, personal preference. As for the reviews, I'm at work now so difficult to dig out some examples. But it often seems that the body of the text (which is often formulaic and lacks originality) is incongruous with the rating: ie "a very good bass for the money, well worth check out = ***" and "dissapointing, problems with finish and there are better out there = ***". Don't get me wrong, I still buy the magazine. This is just my personal opinion.

Thought so.

Its why I'm never a fan of these supposedly "famous" bass virtuosos. Without opening the "role of bass guitar" can of worms, I have no interest in the overly technical, usually solo, non musical crap that most of them churn out. Fair enough if others are impressed and find it satisfying, its just really not my thing. The best thing about the magazine is the interviews with bassists that have actually made it in a band scenario. People who have developed their own style and helped shape the sound of great bands. People like Duff McKagan and Glen Matlock. I doubt they could complete Janek Gwidzala's techinacl excercises, but I know who I'd rather sound like (and who's bank ballance I'd rather have). Or maybe thats just me making excuses for my technical inability??!

Silly Love Songs - Wings I just always f*ck it up. Just can't get the feel of it. Can't even hum it.

I'd take anything written in that magazine with a huge pinch of salt. Its mostly a load of nonsense. Its either musos showing off with excersises with no musical relevance or reviews that are to scared to give any product less than 3 stars for fear of upsetting the distributor. Style over substance, month after month.

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='151944' date='Mar 5 2008, 07:01 PM']I can generally spot Marcus Miller.[/quote] It's the hat.

Theodore Spinkle

I'd much rather buy in stores if possible, even if it costs extra. The only time I'd make an exception is for real budget stuff (under £150) where its worth a gamble. For example, I'd rather spend £700 in store than £600 online. There's a number of reasons for this. Firstly, QC - i like to play the exact bass I'll be taking home and I find quality can vary across all brands. Secondly, the desire to support retailers. I like music shops, I'd like them to keep trading. I demonstrate this by putting my money where my mouth is and purchasing from them! Thirdly, I like the personal touch. Its nice to be able to take something back to a shop if there's an issue. Fourthly, £100 really isn't that much in the grand scheme of things! Its strange really, a lot of people are very specific about the origins of products (buying fair trade coffee, avoiding using supermarkets if they can by the produce from a local independent store) but will happily use a music shop to try and then opurchase online seperately. I can understan why, but as I say, its not really my thing. As long as these people don't complain when a music shop shuts down, then I'm not really bothered either way. Sanctimonious?? Me??

I might go along and ask him what's with the nail varnish? Anyone else noticed that?

Welcome Iain.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='150991' date='Mar 4 2008, 12:17 PM']PS nice to see you back BBC. You into jazz yet?[/quote] Glad to be back. I've been off on a month long residential Jazz appreciation course. ...and I still f*cking hate it!

I don't get on with biscuits either. Not a fan of mixing drinks with food. Or maybe its just to many bad experiences losing games of "soggy biscuit" as an adolescent.

Welcome. I'm a fan of tea, but never really managed to get into cakes.

[quote name='jhsteel' post='150707' date='Mar 3 2008, 10:14 PM']Jazz with S1 switch. Nice warm p bass style tone without the big neck. I heard they stopped making them now though.[/quote] Yeah, they have. There's still some old stock knocking about though. Played the new MIA on saturday and it just seems your getting less bass for more money. +1 for a Jazz with an S1 though. Not quite as beefy as a P, but almost there.