peteb

I don't really see the issue with many of them! 

Oasis - massive over here and pretty much defined the music scene in the late 90s to mid 00s, not as big in the USA but still well known

Cher - longevity and a lot of massive, iconic singles

Peter Frampton - Humble Pie and big solo career, still massive & influential in the States

Kool ATG - big funk act, loads of well known tunes

Foreigner - massive band, helped establish AOR as a genre, loads of hits and longevity

Mary J Blige - pretty iconic for a while, although it depends where you are setting the bar

Mariah Carey - great voice (if a bit OTT), massive hits and a huge star

Jane's Addiction - very influential (no JA, probably no RHCP), again depends on where you are set the bar

Ozzy Osbourne - can't think of any reason why he isn't in already for his solo career! 

As @BigRedX says, music is supposed to be an art and I'm not really keen on bringing in this element of it being seen as a competitive sport. I agree that it shouldn't really matter who is being inducted. But if you are going to have such an institution, I've no problem with a few of those candidates. 

30 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

yeah of course, Brum in particular has been the hotbed of metal and hard rock in the UK. 

Yea, Birmingham was always a good town for us back in the day. 

31 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

I was raised in Liverpool in the 70s-90s and wasn't aware of any metal scene or any of that American AOR stuff being popular. The only metal band of any note from the area is Carcass.  Used to go and see bands in Manchester a lot too. Not aware there was much of a metal scene there either. Certainly Manchester hasn't produced any metal bands of note. Maybe hair metal and US AOR were more popular the other side of the Pennines.

Maybe, but also the Midlands and the North East.

We did play quite a lot of gigs in the Greater Manchester area / Lancashire rather than Manchester itself. 

On 21/02/2024 at 17:09, Barking Spiders said:

In the late 70s-mid 80s, Hair Metal (in which I include Van Halen) and the AOR stuff from Boston, Journey etc were both a big deal in the US but meant practically nowt in Blighty, which was more into New Wave, New Romantics, synth pop, dance and the like.

Not so much in the north. Hair metal and AOR were massive around here, and you can still get a decent audience in pubs today playing covers from those genres. It may have been a niche, but it was a pretty big one! 

On 22/02/2024 at 12:51, Mykesbass said:

Something that survey shows is that US likes music overall more than UK.

 

My observation on this, having been in record company telesales for 4 years in the early 80s, is that the UK's music tastes were highly polarised back then. Dance music was king all across the home counties, and across the south in general. From Luton upwards we couldn't sell dance music for love nor money except in a few larger cities. Even then there was a split in BPM, with northern cities preferring up tempo tracks, and south going for slower stuff. Midlands and North East was great for selling all types of rock.

I would say that agrees with my experiences, having gigged around the country in the 80s (and again more recently) and having lived in both the north and the south. 

22 minutes ago, OliverBlackman said:

It’s worth remembering that there are players out there that don’t know beyond the usual brands you find in a music store. If they have serious money in their pocket, they might consider themselves buying the best available when we know of other options. 

There are also pro players who know of all the options but gravitate to Fenders, because they know that is what their gigs require / their clients want.  

A year or so ago, I saw a Scottish pro drummer acquaintance of mine playing with his blues band somewhere around here. The normal bass player was on tour, so they had a youngish guy depping for them. This kid was an ace player, had a degree in music, played in a classical orchestra (forget which instrument) and also played an upright on jazz gigs. In addition to that, he also did various pop or rock gigs on electric bass.

He had just paid £3.5k or so for a new mint green, RW neck, CS P bass and asked me what I thought of it. I played it and it looked, sounded and played great. He said that he knows its not cheap, but he wanted a simple, reliable, top quality bass that he could take on any pro gig and know that it would work. You can't really argue with that. 

Would I pay £5k for one - I dunno, probably not. But I can see why he would... 

If I had ever an opportunity to make any sort of a living as a pro, then absolutely. However, whenever I had a sniff then it jut wasn't a viable opportunity at the time.  

I am currently playing with a keys player who has been a pro since being a teenager - been in a couple of signed bands (one quite famous), done loads of tours & sessions, toured with a couple of famous old MOR household name acts and then slogged around the clubs when he got a bit older, etc. He did OK out of it, but I'm certainly a bit better off financially than he is now that we're both in our 60s (me early, him late 60s). Nether the less, I would have swapped his career with mine in a heartbeat...! 

1 hour ago, OliverBlackman said:

The Bass Gallery has always been old school and you get so much more out of face to face interaction there than you would an automated online transaction. For them it must work well that way otherwise you’d think there’d put more resource into the website.

I find its always best to actually ring places like the Gallery and speak to someone. For a start, it's the only way of knowing if they have sold the bass three months before they got round to putting it on the website! 

Some people used to moan about the old Bass Direct website, but the Gallery's was always far worse... 

4 hours ago, ossyrocks said:

It might be just me, but I can't bring myself to pay big money for a refinished guitar, although I'm sure it's lovely. 

 

Yea, it looks great, but I agree that I would be very wary about paying a lot of money for a refin, purely because how it would affect the potential resale value for such an expensive bass.  

However, it makes me think - back when I was relatively young, we all had 70s Fenders and we all modded them! We all swapped out pickups, put on new bridges, etc and then sold them on to each other for £300 or so, without it affecting the value of the bass. Of course, they weren't considered 'vintage' back then! I remember seeing an interview with Rick Wills and Tom Semioli on 'Know Your Bass Player' and they agreed that a P bass isn't really your own until you've taken a screwdriver to it!

If I was ever to seriously consider buy a vintage Fender, I think that I would be looking for one that had a badass bridge or whatever already fitted, and was therefore considerably cheaper than an all original example. I would be scared of owning a really expensive vintage P bass because I would be afraid of modding it to get it how I wanted because of how it would effect its value... 

I voted 34", which gets a decent string tension and just sounds better (I once had a 34.5" that was great as well). I also voted for a 35" scale for a five string or where you are tuning down more than a half step. 

On 28/11/2023 at 15:39, Paul S said:

My lot supported Danny Bryant a couple of years ago at the John Peel Centre in Stowmarket.  I think he was the drummer on that occasion.  He completely ignored us, unlike the other band members, took nearly every single bit of the soundcheck time fiddling with his own IEM mix and came across as an arrogant d!ck.  

Me and my wife used to work on the crew for a well known blues festival. I would work on the stagecrew and she was in charge of the green room / issuing passes, etc. My missus hated Danny Bryant, who was just a drunk, arrogant d!ck who just had contempt for the crew and the audience.  I didn't have to deal with him as I was working another stage, but I saw a bit of his set and he was just a mediocre player and outright rude to the audience. At the end of the night, long after he had come off stage (he wasn't the headliner or anything), he was still in the dressing room being obnoxious. I had to pretty much frogmarch him out of the venue (slight exaggeration, but not much), as no one else would put up with his abuse any longer. 

A mate of mine who's a pretty good guitar player saw him live last year, thought he was cr@p and had a strange attitude onstage, and he didn't even have to meet him...! 

2 hours ago, Bluewine said:

 

I spoke with a guy over here that said he played some sort of blues/folk festival in Skegness.

 

For me, I'm ok with 1 quality gig a week maybe 2 in the summer.

 

Daryl

Daryl, the Skegness reference is a bit of a joke as it is a rather grim resort on the North Sea that most people would rather avoid (unless they're really broke)! It's not like going on holiday to Spain for a week in the sun. 

There did used to be a big blues / rock festival at a holiday camp in Skegness until very recently. It was always about this time of year. I played it once - it was a really good event...! 

Oh, and happy 70th birthday Daryl - enjoy your new venerable status and great that you're still out there... 

1. Why you don't have any gigs? Yes, we have gigs but not as many as we would like and less than previous years. It is getting harder to book tribute gigs without agency representation, despite having quite a lot of recognition and a couple of reasonably well known members. 

2. Do you rely on an agent? No, but we do use them occasionally. If it was up to me, we would be using them a lot more.

3. Who finds coordinates and confirms gigs? Generally, the band leader (guitarist) for the Zep tribute, although I’ve got a few. For the new blues band I’m doing, it will most likely be mainly me and the guitarist.

4. Are you or any band members in this for the money? For a couple of members (in both bands), making money from gigs (from several bands) is a significant part of their income. This something that the reasonably highly paid drummer sometimes fails to realise! For me, it pays for holidays and new gear, strings, etc. It might be a weekend in Skegness this year!

5. How much do you want to gig? Two to three times a month would be ideal. Playing the tribute circuit necessitates a fair bit of travelling if you want to go out for half-decent money, it just comes with the gig. I have no problem with that at all if we’re making enough money to make it worthwhile.

The thing that confuses me is that he says that maple necks weren't a thing until the 60s, but I thought that 57 P basses came with a maple fingerboard. 

15 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said:

I have indeed been confused occasionally about that! 

28 minutes ago, walshy said:

Yeah I’ve had a few, normally 70/71 P with an A ( Jazz nut ) neck. Best of both worlds 👌

Funnily enough, I had once a Mayones jazz bass with a 41 / B nut width. That was a really great bass to play, although I could never get it sound just how I wanted it to. 

What profile / nut width does an 'A' neck have? 

18 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

B is 40/41 and C is 44 pete 

I thought that 50s models were 44 and all of the 60s ones were 41 - you learn something new everyday!

I had a AVRI 57 P bass for a few years. It was a nice bass but the neck felt a little wide. I much prefer the 41mm wide nut, which feels better to me than a jazz bass or the earlier, wider nut, P basses. You can tell that I started out on 70s P basses...! 

What was the standard 41mm P bass nut width then? Was that a B or a C?? 

One of the big reasons for the decline of rock music discussed by Rick Beato and one of his mates, a former record company exec / A&R man / producer: 

25 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Yes let's not get political. However let's please get the economics right. 

 

The current cost of living crisis is primarily down to two things:

1. Covid - governments around the planet printed vast amounts of "free" money whilst locking down the economy. Inflation is pay back for that. The alternative would have been the mother of all depressions. 

2. Putin's invasion of Ukraine and it's impact on energy costs, which feeds into all costs of production. 

If we're not going to get political, at least actually get the economics right. The current 'cost of living crisis' in the UK is primarily down to political decisions made following the fall-out of the crash in 2008. Over countries have recovered from the Covid lockdown much quicker than the UK. The conditions for the current state of the UK economy pre-date the invasion of the Ukraine. 

This is all getting unnecessarily political. Essentially, the answer to the OP is that the cost of living is a factor that is making it difficult for today's young musicians, but the main issue is the changing nature of the music business, changes in demand for popular music, other entertainment options becoming more prominent, etc. 

I'm afraid that I haven't read the whole thread, but I am a long time mpulse user.

When I have had any problems with the mpulse, it was when I have changed the preamp valve. It doesn't seem to like anything other than a standard JJ 12ax7 for some reason. Good luck in sorting it out. 

1 hour ago, SumOne said:

How many people under the age of 30 have commented on this thread?

 

I can't speak for them either, but I don't think many young people want to be in bands that are basically using the same music formula that their parents and grandparents used (Bass, Guitar, Drums, Singer - promote by travelling around to gigs in a van). Technology and society and popular music has moved on - they don't expect to make a lot of money from selling an album, plenty don't even do albums, but will be quite focussed on getting a lot of Spotify streams and Instagram and Tik Tok followers and getting to a level where they are sponsored to endorse things, that is where the audience and fame and money is and they know it.

 

It's potentially a great time for music where most 16 year olds can now access a cheap computer to make music and record their vocals and a use a phone to record videos and self-release and market their stuff to a global audience. It's just different to how their parents and grandparents did it.

 

Older people writing off music like rap and Electronic music as they are not using the same formula as they did must be quite similar to how parents reacted to rock n roll.

Exactly. The difficulties of making a living as a musician are not just because of effects of the cost of living (although that still does have an effect, for both the would-be musician and the punter), but because of the changes in demand for popular music. This is because of new things apart from music that have got the attention of the potential market (video games, social media, etc), as well as new types of music that don't require the traditional bands that most people here are used to. The last British band to become massive after slogging around the clubs and small venues was probably Oasis, which was 25 plus years ago! 

Don't get me wrong, there is still a demand for bands playing music in this country (and certainly throughout Europe), but this demand is nothing like it used to be. I was talking to a couple of twenty somethings at a party over the weekend and they still love music made by guitar led bands, but they are not in the majority anymore. Rock music is going the way of jazz, appealing to a smaller niche of followers. I think that rock will maintain more appeal than jazz did, but it won't be the dominant force in the mainstream anymore. 

7 minutes ago, TimR said:

All kids go to college now. Very few go straight from school to work.

 

But how many kids from modest backgrounds go to music college? 

It is funny how a thread about the difficulties of being a musician these days has been de-railed into quite an informed debate about the housing market! It just goes to show how significant the issue of housing is to virtually every aspect of life in the UK! 

The short answer to the OP is that, yes, the cost of living is having a negative impact on music (or at least people wanting to ‘make it’ in bands) in this country. I used to work backstage at a big blues festival with a lot of pro musicians playing in the various acts over the weekend. It became increasingly obvious that the younger pros were rich kids who had been to music college, whereas the older ones came from all kinds of backgrounds. This is nothing against the younger guys, who were generally good players and nice people, but it seems that the middle class or poorer kids are being frozen out / discouraged from becoming a pro muso. 

However, the main problem is the change in demand for popular music. When I was a kid, entertainment was movies, football or rock/pop music. These days, there is a lot more choice and of course, music’s place in society has changed. Streaming has led to less income for musicians and the emphasis away from producing albums in favour of more disposable single tracks. Celebrity culture has meant that people now strive to be famous for it’s own sake, rather than fame being a side product of being a musician / actor, etc.