paul_c2

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1479129703' post='3174120']
Someone with more theory will help me out but:

Say you're playing in C major. The only other major chords available to you are Fmaj and GMaj. The IV and V.

You could play minor chords but that really affects the mood of the song.

All the 'other' chords you bolt into a song after those 3 are really just inversions with added notes or passing chords leading to one of the three.

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True - if you were sticking to diatonic chords only.

BUT you don't need to, in fact departing from diatonic chords in itself adds some interest. For example you could play C major, Eb major, F major, G major. Obviously Eb major isn't diatonic, indeed Eb is not even in the scale.

You could also throw in Ab major for a similar effect.

When I am sight reading some music, an accidental is great because it often "sticks out" in the music and provides a useful check that you're in the right place (especially after 17 bars rest, etc).

But then, this thread is about how music can be interesting without interesting harmony......

A tuner is also a mute pedal, so it has a use beyond simply tuning the guitar. But yes, I accept that you wanted people to name effects.

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1479067337' post='3173697']
Probably easier to roll of the bottom and low mids from a P bass to get a more Jazz like sound if really needed.
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Yes, in my limited experience of Precision basses, this would partially work too. However the tone controls would be on the floor or the rackmount unit, it would need an element of planning - with a Jazz bass, you can tweak the balance of the pickups "on the fly".

Its also worth stating, that you won't make a Precision sound exactly like a Jazz; or vice versa, simply with EQ. There is something about the Jazz which is distinctive, and can be mostly tamed using EQ. Its also possible to adapt playing style too, to get closer to the desired sound.

For clarity, what I mean is: with suitable EQ, you can get either bass much closer in sound to the distinctive sound of the other (but never 100% there). BUT the additional control that a Jazz offers, due to 2 pickups, means you can also alter the sound during a song too, for example by rolling off the neck pickup to 7-8 while the bridge pickup is left on full. With a Precision, a similar thing could be done but you'd need to preset an EQ pedal or sucklike, and the opportunity to alter it is more limited. So the Jazz is more versatile in that it can produce a wider range of sounds, and blend from "fit in" to "stand out" in situations using just the bass's controls, thus not needing pedals etc if you wanted to retain a simple setup.

OK no probs, if you're happy to change/downsize. Personally I much prefer Jazz bass but I understand where you're coming from. Shame I can't afford either of yours though!

Pedal #1 would be a decent tuner. Then, ummmmmm.....










ummmmmmm......

















ummmmmmm............









Do I have to have a second pedal?

Are the pickups spaced with 17mm spacing too? I'd have thought they are, and that a modification would lead to balance issues from string to string - some will be directly over the pickup poles, others will be a further distance away. Not disasterous.....but not ideal.

Personally I'd give it a bit of time and see if you can get used to the closer string spacing.

If its new, can you take it back?

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478878969' post='3172354']
Now don't get me wrong, I love the aesthetics of a Jazz bass, and I love the sound when I play them alone (as you do when trying them out in a shop...) but whenever I turn up to play with a band and get one of my JBs out, they always ask if I've brought a P bass with me, as no matter who I play with, they always prefer the sound of the Precision.

So I have a Fender Classic 60s Jazz, nitro finish, lovely beast, and a new US Standard Jazz both sitting in cases upstairs and I never get to use them in anger.

Is this a common experience? I suppose in an ideal world I'd meet someone with a pair of little-used Precisions because they always play Jazzes and we could arrange a swap!

Glad I got that off my chest, now back to learning tomorrow's set....on a Precision!
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I know its a bit late (since you've put them up for sale) but not too late because I'll guess they've not gone yet........BUT....

Have you tried some kind of decent EQ, for example a parametric EQ or graphic equaliser (pedal, or maybe rackmount) in the signal chain before the amplifier? Or does the amp have decent enough EQ controls to suffice? It might simply be that the "thump" of a Precision; or the full-range bright sound of the Jazz, can be controlled/replicated/removed using thoughtfully set up controls.

I'm in the Chester area too, I'm probably a fairly similar standard but can read music. I learnt other instrument(s) before I took up bass, and I have read standard notation all my bass playing life, so I'd say I was fairly up-to-speed on the reading. Can I ask also, how happy are you with your music theory knowledge? Its not like you'd be tested on music theory on a gig! But more that, with a little (or more) music theory knowledge, you can "understand" a piece of music plonked in front of you more thoroughly than simply playing the bassline of it, and it can make the reading easier - much easier in some cases. Anyway, let me know if I can be of any help.

What "makes" the music good, isn't necessarily the chord progressions, but the way the instruments and other sounds play together over those chords. For example, listen to some of the Tom Tom Club stuff, they deliberately stayed away from complex chord progressions, some songs only having one or two chords - yet the sound is brilliant and has earned them popular acclaim and success.

V --> I works for fairly obvious reasons once you know your music theory.

I think everyone else except me is in a similar situation/going bonkers.

I have a bass guitar which is 40+ years old, is a bit bashed up, has imperfections, a few missing screws but I have no desire to fix it or buy another. If it stops working, I'll bodge it up or spend as little as possible getting it fixed. And whatever sound it makes, I make do with/adapt to it.

I'd imagine, if/when you get a 2nd guitarist, a lot of the songs will need slight rearrangements to work effectively. Regarding this song, the bass solo/break is good and I can see how a 2nd guitar might be added to it with no real worries. But also I could see the guitar doing it instead.

The answer is, try it out with both, or a number of variations in arrangement, and see which one you all prefer the most.

Took ages to get the old memory cells working, but I found a tasteful one. The bass solo is 1:58 and on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxtRgu3pg2k

What is a solo anyway? Or a "lead melodic instrument"? Well, its the line or tune which gets the focus, in an arrangement or orchestration of a piece. If there's too much else going on, then the melody will be lost in a mush so the others need to back off somewhat, while an instrument(alist) is playing the melody. They're still providing rhythm and harmony though, and possibly a counterpoint too. If the bass is doing the melody then either someone else is doing the rhythm/harmony, its missing, or its doing all three roles at a time - a formidable task, but one which is possible in the right context.

There's definitely issues with the bass taking on the role of the "lead melodic instrument" and one needs to tread very carefully to make it a success rather than just an exercise in being different for the sake of it. It helps if something else can provide the low end (so the bass guitar can use the higher end of its range and not leave an obvious gap), for boring scientific reasons.

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1478602572' post='3170145']
Theres no money above the 5th fret!
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1478604195' post='3170166']
What a pathetically horrible quote. Whoever came up with that idiotic saying doesn't deserve to call themselves a musician.
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I just took it to be a jovial post, with an element of truth behind it. I touched upon it in post #9. For "basic" or "normal" bass playing, there is a particular range and that's basically the low bit. If you go higher (in pitch) then there's a "hole" at the bottom - which might be okay, might not, musically.

Of course, we can't simply relate fret number to pitch - for certain keys or passages it makes sense to play a bit higher up the neck to make the fingerings efficient, on the eg D, A, E strings, ie not going above C corresponding to 5th fret G string (C3).

Some good suggestions already, but definitely worth doing a couple of Garbage songs. Also, Blondie, although it would need an amount of adaption due to no keyboard.

I know you said the singer was good but I doubt good enough to so "Wuthering Heights" by Kate Bush - its a very hard song to cover and sound right, due to the distinctive vocal. There's a couple of other Kate Bush ones which are more approachable, for example "James and the Cold Gun", "Violin" etc which are also a bit more upbeat.

If it were a hum while plugged into mains only, I'd suggest its some kind of ground loop interference. My laptop does it too, but I can run it off battery and the noise goes right down to basically inaudiable. Its possible that it could be anything you've recently plugged into the mains, or even that a neighbour has plugged into their mains, etc. I've never gotten to the bottom of mine.

The "data" noises while running on battery - I can only guess but maybe something to do with interface buffer settings while on a reduced voltage or power consumption mode? I wonder if its worth having a look at all the power (saving) settings on the laptop, including in the BIOS, and setting them up to be the same on battery as mains, temporarily?

Failing that, sounds like a hardware issue with the laptop itself or an unusual fault on the interface (but you've tried 2 interfaces??)

PS Forgot to add, since the frets are closer you don't need to stick to 1 fret = 1 finger any more, you can use "cello" fingerings.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1477591998' post='3163261']
Tessitura.
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....Which for me, is D1-Eb4, although occasionaly the low D is a pain in the arse to use, so its E1-Eb4. (E1 is the standard tuning on a 4 string bass's lowest string, and Eb4 is the highest conventional note on a 20 fret 4 string in standard tuning). Although personally I don't blame the OP for not particularly liking the top end.

The problem with playing up there is that normally there is a "hole" at the low end, so it depends who else you're playing with and the context of the music. Sometimes the texture of the music can lend itself to having a space where the bass would normally be, and sometimes it sounds like something's missing. Of course, if you played in a large band/group with other bass instruments, or piano, its quite possible that the low end is provided so the bass can be "next one up" - where the cellos would normally be located in an orchestra, for example.

But, regarding technique, there's nothing particularly special but you need to practice (you end up playing how you practice.....) and of course physically, the frets get closer and there is an access issue with the neck joint on some basses right at the top. Another issue is that if your action is quite high, then you'll be pressing down more distance to sound each note and the "open" strings will be in the way of the played one(s) - but you can use this to your advantage by left hand muting some of the open strings.

And of course if the song is in the key of E, A or D, you can sometimes incorporate those open strings while playing another line at the top end, which can sound wonderful if done properly - have a listen to "Dune Tune" by Level 42 for a good example.

[quote name='archie84' timestamp='1477167742' post='3160357']
hi everyone. just wondering if there is anyone elles out there that has no idea of what there playing??

i always wanted to play the bass so i bought one years ago and some tutorial books to get me started. i was verry eager and couldent wait to get started as i was playing trombone in a soul band and this sparked something in me.
howeaver... when i started to learn with the books everything was in a diferent key obviously so i found myself getting confused and thought to myself... sod this i just want to play the damm thing lol..

so 5 years later im playing in my third band, were a 4 piece cover band curently with a set of 28 songs, but i have no idea to some degre what im playing really in tearms of keys and all that. i understand music through playing the trombone and did my theorys with that instrument.

i just listen to the band and play along with them.

anyone elles doing this???
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When you say you did theory and played the trombone - to what level?


[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1477240385' post='3160788']
Well the trombone is pitched to Bb so you're playing a Bb when the sheet music tells you it's a C. I never got why brass instruments did that, used to drive me nuts when I played trumpet.
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[quote name='GarethFlatlands' timestamp='1477248843' post='3160865']
Well that's even more confusing... so it's probably correct! There seems to be a lot of brass playing that's pointlessly complicated. I can only go on my experience with trumpet so the only transposing I needed was upping everything 2 semitones to be in line with everyone else.

Edit - Back on topic, I'd strongly advise learning some theory, even if it's just basic scales and how to construct chords. Don't be afraid to keep playing by ear as it'll stop you getting too hung up on what should sound right but knowing your onions is a good starting place and I wish I'd bothered to learn earlier.
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Firstly, "transposing instrument" is meaningless on its own, and is basically a consequence of how a player plays written music on it, ie what notes they play when they read certain notes on the standard music staff.

Trumpet is almost always a transposing instrument, in that its "written" C sounds as a concert pitch Bb. However there are plenty of situations where this isn't the case. Trombone parts are written in treble clef for brass bands (and sometimes/often wind bands, concert bands etc). But often written in bass clef, for orchestra. Competent trombone players get to a stage where they're fairly fluid in reading both bass and treble clef equally well. After all, its only the horizontal position of the notes on the staff which change, all other symbols, rhythm etc remains the same.

The reason its done (writing all brass instruments in treble clef) is simply a convention, done by some (but not all) arrangers in some (but not all) band/orchestra situations. Its a convention which makes switching from one brass instrument to another simpler, however.

One way is to play it normal ie not slapped, and nail down the note choices. "Step it up" lends itself to a simple bass line. You know its simple. Other bass players in the audience know its simple. But 90% of the punters don't know/don't care that its easy to play, just like the sound of it.

If you really want to embellish it, then octaves are always going to be a good choice, because they're a safe choice. But if you're a bit more adventurous there's definitely room in "Step it up" to put some little extras in on the off-beat notes. The piece sits quite well with having 1/16ths in, so there's at least 10 places passing notes could be put in (assuming the main rhythm is 3 notes, and also appears on the 3rd beat in the bar). Obviously don't fill them all in, but some nice chromatic runs would go in alright? And since they're not on the beat, accenting with slap technique is going to jar a little....

You can set action as low as you like, the lower limit will be when picking/plucking louder notes start buzzing. The heavier the strings, the later this occurs - so if you have thin gauge strings, you can't set the action so low. You may need a truss rod tweak as you get lower and lower though.

Ok no worries I did suspect that was the case. The bass doesn't come out well on the recording but my laptop so I plugged in headphones, but still couldn't really make it out that well. But obviously its to do with the recording process here. I know you might be nervous about putting an isolated bass track on....but if you worked towards happiness to do that, it would be the same stuff to work on to be happy with playing the song. I know your band's done a slightly different arrangement (no keyboards, more guitar?) but I'm not sure you need to have slap bass in it - the original seems not to, after all?

Do you have a recording with the bass isolated?

Is the serial number not on the back?

If not, then I'd never buy it - I'd never buy a Fender without a serial number, when there's plenty around WITH their serial number, which are much more likely to be genuine.

The question/original post leaves room for interpretation, I'm taking it as "if you had more musical talent, would you play a different instrument?"

I'd say no: I enjoy playing the bass, partly because it is easier than other instruments (I have played a number of others.....) and partly because of its role as the foundation in a band or group, along with the drums. Its boring to practice on its own but interesting to play with others. I don't seek the limelight or fame off it, so I'm not bothered about being a brilliant front man, or soloist on whatever else eg electric guitar etc etc. For a while I thought I was brilliant at music, until I looked at other things instead of simply bass parts for quite easy graded pieces. Now I know while I'm not brilliant, and there's areas to improve, I am competent on the bass and can make a positive influence.

I guess if I had a ton more musical talent I'd take up another instrument, or instruments, but I'd still keep the bass as my main instrument and enjoy playing it.