LLOYDWT

I'm a bit of a mic addict, so I have/have had loads.

I always carry, and usually use, a Shure KSM8; it's a brilliant mic to work with, it's very easy to EQ, and it seems to sound great with any singer and is very forgiving of imperfect mic technique. I often use a Neumann KMS105 too; I rarely use it if I'm not doing the sound as it requires phantom power, and I don't like to give the engineer anything else to think about; but again, it's a really easy mic to work with and you can score a really quality vocal with very limited EQing or effects. I also always carry a Lewitt MTP540 in my spares bag; it's a lot cheaper mic than the Shure or the Neumann, so I'm a little less protective of it (if I'm forced to loan a mic, it's  usually this one) but I still find it to be a great mic, it sounds not dissimilar to an SM58, but a little less harsh, and it's definitely easier for me to dial in a sound I'm happy with.

I also own, but rarely gig with, a Shure Super 55 and an MXL CR77; I used to use these a lot with a couple of function bands I played with where a more vintage aesthetic was desired. I bought the MXL because I wasn't the biggest fan of the Super 55 (it has the same harshness that I find in the SM58 and struggle to EQ out).

When I'm engineering, I usually carry a couple of beaten up Heil PR 22s, as they're close enough sounding to 58s to satisfy most people, but have less handling noise and are easier for me to dial in.

3 hours ago, BigRedX said:

Personally if was trying to run two mission-critical apps on a single mobile device and found that they wouldn't play nicely together, I'd invest in separate devices for each one. I also wouldn't even bother trying to run anything static off batteries. Use a mains adaptor and if that requires a special USB or Lightning adaptor to allow mains power and control functionality at the same time then get that too.

 

A couple of years ago I witnessed a fairly well-known band abort their sound check because the iPad running their backing ran out of power. Then despite spending a couple of hours recharging it whilst the two support bands sound checked and played, it died again a couple of songs from the end of the set. The only battery driven devices I'll entertain on stage are the mobile end of radio transmitters and receivers. Everything else is run off the mains.

On an average gig, I have redundancies for everything. Multiple basses, multiple amps, multiple cabinets, multiple mixers, spare mics, etc., a bag full of spare 9 volts, XLRs, 1/4" cables and strings,  and I make sure that everything is fully charged before leaving the house, and I carry chargers/cables too...; I carry two iPads and can mix from my laptop and phone too (and my backup mixer is an MW1608 with physical faders). This isn't about being cheap or cutting corners; it's about not having my mic stand looking like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise.

I've been mixing from a tablet for the best part of a decade, and it's confusing, and frustrating, why the functionality in this feature is now less than it was 8 years ago. This is functionality that exists; it's more convenient to run it all from one device and I'd like to be able to continue doing so. If A&H have a legitimate reason for its omission, so be it, but right now, Midas/Behringer can do it, so I don't understand why A&H can't.

The Midas mixing apps (for the MR18 and the M32 variants) maintain connection, or at least functionally appear to, to the mixer; there is no resource drain on the iPad. Regardless of the technological assumptions, my question is, if Midas/Behringer can do it, why can't A&H?

It's not a deal breaker for me, but it definitely feels like a step backwards compared to this feature on the MR18.

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Both of those arguments make no sense - does that mean while it is showing the user interface it doesn't have enough processing to mix, if it does, what is the problem? A UI should be a result of data that already exists that it just has to send down a network port, and whatever processor that powers it is at least a decade newer than the processing the X18 - I can tell you from my work, the processing is way more impressive it was a decade ago. And power consumption, I can't think how that would be changed but unless it has an eco mode I am not sure why that would be a consideration on a mains powered device.

Agreed, and considering the alternative to maintaining the connection in the background is to keeping a dedicated tablet on and running the app at all times, even if it were true, the current real-use case would be more resource intensive.

Even if there is a legitimate case for its functioning the way it currently does, I'd appreciate a toggle to have it function the way I'd prefer.

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Seems an odd choice to make - when gigging I flip backwards and forwards between the X-Air screen and my set list app on my iPad all the time. It would be a pain to have to reconnect to a mixer when i did that (in fact it would be a non starter)

This is the main issue for me too; cycling between mixing and OnSong whilst playing, and mixing and Tidal for music between sets is going to be how I want to use this mixer 99% of the time. I've cited this as an example to A&H and asked what their reasoning is; I literally can't think of a single reason you'd want the mixer to disconnect automatically.

According to Rafael at A&H, the disconnecting of the mixing app when it's not in focus is a design choice. I've asked what the thinking behind this is; I'll update if I get a response.

29 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I always have a dedicate ipad on the mixer, using another for switching between stuff if needed. Not ideal I know - but I feel I need instant access at all times!

I could do this; I've got a couple of iPads (and a couple of mic stand tablet holders). But I'd prefer to run everything from one.

Kiosk mode isn't ideal, even if it works. I want, as I can with my MR18, to be able to go into other apps (OnSong, Tidal, etc.) whilst using the mixing app and then go back into the mixing app, and I want to be able to let the tablet sleep and come back and immediately be able to mix.

No client-side changes are required for this functionality in other mixing apps, so I'm sure that A&H can and will resolve it soon.

40 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I am probably teaching my grannie to suck eggs , apologies if that is the case.
 

With the Soundcraft Ui, the problem with disconnecting is usually down to the tablet being designed to connect to strong, internet connected networks. It went away once I switched off Auto-Join.

 

It doesn’t disconnect from the WiFi network. It disconnects from the mixing interface whilst maintaining a stable WiFi connection with the mixer.

The UI is similar to the Midas/Behringer mixers. You connect to the mixer’s network and then in the app you connect to the mixer. With my Midas, as long as I’m on the network, the app maintains its connection to the mixer; with the A&H, if you’re idle, that connection is broken.

6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Remember to feed back your big finds to A&H - they are usually pretty hot on bug fixes and community improvement suggestions.

I've fed the bugs back to them already; I'll give them a bit of time before before I start suggesting improvements.

And... you can mix multiple aux outputs with a single instance of the mixing app on a single device, but the subgroups will be mirrored on all of the auxes (though the underlying levels can be separately controlled).

And though sub groups exist in the monitor mix app, they aren't available in the main mixing app (boo!).

The device disconnecting from the mixer issue happens on the CQ4You app as well as the CQ-MixPad app. I've now tested both on iPad and Android and the issue persists on both.

Here are the config adjustments you can make on the aux outs. The library feature has A&H's presets, but you can save your own there too.

The quick setup feature really is quick. With the gain Auto Set, the copy paste of channels and the presets, you really can get a workable mix dialled in in seconds.

Here's the processing screen using the easy presets. You're very limited as to what changes you can make to each channel, but it's very simple to switch a channel back to manual and it pulls over the settings it was using.

And another bug... the "Function" dropdown goes blank after using the Soft Keys. It still functions, but it makes it even harder to recall what you've set the Soft Keys to do.

So, I can confirm, you need to set a stereo pair of outputs in the main mixing app, and this can then be selected by the CQ4You app (thanks, EBS_freak).

You can then pan the individual channels from the sub-group screens.

The main screen scroll wheels adjust the underlying channels relative to one another.

I think this is a bug, but I can't rename the 4th sub group. It's stuck as "Me."

No matter how many channels are on the main sub mixing screen (as few as 10 if you make everything a stereo pair), the FX channels stay on the second screen (I'd never have found them on my own, thanks, Chienmortbb).

30 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I would have thought you would have had to link on the mixer and then your remote monitor mix will just assume control of that linked pair? (Then I'm guessing additional options like pan will appear in the app?)

I'll try this tonight and let you know.

The CQ4You app was released yesterday. I spent a bit of time playing with it last night (on the train in the demo environment, so please take the below with a pinch of salt until I've had the opportunity to test it with the mixer tonight).

I installed it on my Android phone, a Pixel 6a.

The main page has four sub groups and a master fader that can be set to any one of the six aux outs. The app suggests you lock the fader to the output you're using to stop erroneous changes to the wrong monitor mix.

If you double click a sub group you can name it. Just like the channels on the main mixing app, sub-group names are limited to six characters. Once you've named your sub group, you can select which channels you want to put in it.

To add sub groups you click "ASSIGN" and you're then presented with a screen that shows you all 16 mono inputs and stereos 1, 3 and 4 (stereos 1 and 2 are dual 1/4 inch TS cables, stereo 3 is USB and stereo 4  is Bluetooth — I don't know why stereo 2 isn't selectable — perhaps it's visible on the 20B which is the only mixer to offer a second dual TS input, I'll confirm later).

You're not limited to the number of channels you add to a subgroup.

After selecting the channels you want in your sub group, you click "BACK" and you can then mix the channels within the subgroup. You're limited to master volume only, and, presumably, post EQ (there is no option to choose).

After selecting, naming and mixing all of your desired sub groups, you can go back to the main page where you can control the four sub-group faders and the master out.

If you change the aux output, your mix follows you to the new aux output — so you can't use one phone to mix multiple monitor mixes, every user has to use their own device to mix their own monitor.

FX isn't mixable. If I control the monitor mix via the main mixing app, I can add the FX channels to the monitor mix. If you do it via CQ4You, you can't get any FX.

Stereo mixes aren't possible. It's not even possible to hack a stereo monitor mix, as the app will  literally only allow you to mix to a single aux output.

And finally, the sub groups are entirely defined within CQ4You, so sub-group functionality is still non-existent within the main  mixing app.

This is a mixed bag for me. The app is, in some ways, more functional than I expected, but the end result (no stereo, no FX) is less than I'd hoped for. Though, you could argue, if someone is wanting to handle their own stereo, FX-infused mix, why not give them access to the main mixing app and let them do it there.

Being able to mix USB and Bluetooth is good, as, if you're playing with backing tracks, it gives you more options to get those tracks into the mix.

I guess, much like the main mixing app, CQ-MixPad, CQ4You is a good starting point, and I imagine that A&H will make improvements in the short term that could turn this setup into a real powerhouse.

12 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Can you elaborate? What is this monitor app of which you speak?

Allen & Heath are releasing the CQ4You app this month, which looks to be limited to four sub-groups for personal mixing. It allows users to connect to the mixer from their phones for access to edit their own Aux out only.

There isn't much detail, but I imagine, from what I've gleaned from videos and A&H, is the subgroups accessible are defined by via parameters on the principal mixing app (or on the mixer itself if using the 12/18T). I presume, if they're going to the trouble of allowing you to define subgroups for monitor mixing purposes, you could also use these subgroups for the master mix too.

Very limited details re. the app are here — https://www.allen-heath.com/cq/cq4you/

12 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I think it looks to be a super little mixer - but the only really big question mark is why they didn't include the ability to connect to their ME monitors. Seems like a marketing oversight - If you are looking to get people to lock into the Allen and Heath ecosytem, just seems like a bit of an oversight, especially when Ultranet and the affordability of the submixers are a killer feature of the XR18.

I imagine there was a fear, and probably a legitimate one, that it would nerf the demand for their "full fat" desks if these sub-£1000 mixers could accommodate the ME-1/500. I think the monitoring app is a pretty good compromise, but obviously you're limited to six unique mono outs, rather than the infinite stereo mixes you could achieve with an ME.

Shure KSM8s and Neumann KMS104s/5s are the best mics I've found for rejecting unwanted off-axis sound in live situations. They aren't cheap, but the odd deal can be found on eBay; I would struggle to go back to mics like SM58s now; much too much like hard work with anything less than flawless mic technique.

*UPDATE ON THE CQ-20B*

I've had a chance to play with the mixer properly now, and it's definitely a keeper, but there are a few niggles that'll hopefully get fixed with app updates and firmware updates.

The Good:

It's a great sounding mixer. The mic preamps sound excellent; to my ears, it's transparent and, by nature, more warm than clinical across the mics I tested and very easy to tweak (either using the full features of the mixer or the easy tweaking features. The FX are well implemented and useful (I've only really played with the reverbs, echoes and delays so far). It's easy to navigate between screens; features are always in the obvious place and the layout is accessible. It's designed to be quick and easy to use and it achieves both. Setting up channels, from gain to EQ to compression and gate to FX to outputs, is easy. It allows me to create a dynamic mix more akin to a larger feature-rich mixer with ease and speed. It feels quality; it's beautifully put together and the metal and textured plastic feel quality. My only worry would be a stray foot breaking the antenna, but this is  easily replaceable. I'm genuinely stunned by how complete a mixer this is for its price point, if you demoed this to me and asked me to guess what the RRP was, I'd be thinking in excess of £1,500.

The Bad:

There are no mute groups or sub groups. I'm very used to having a mute group for all my FX channels and another for all mics. I mute the FX between tracks, so there's no vocal FX when the band are interacting with the crowd. The mixer gives you two alternatives to this feature for FX that work great, if you're happy to adjust the way you mix: The first, from the FX page there is a "mute all FX button" which functions exactly like an FX mute, but it requires you to navigate away from the faders to enable it, which isn't ideal. The other alternative is to use one of three assignable "soft buttons." These are assignable to mute single channels, the aux outs, and the master stereo out. It can be assigned to mute individual FX or all 4 active FX. The soft buttons are accessible from every screen, so as far as FX goes this functions exactly as a mute group would. The only issue with this solution is the soft buttons don't have labels, so you need to remember what functions and channels you have assigned to each (and you need to communicate this with anybody else using the mixer). Unfortunately, aside from FX and stereo outputs, you can't assign a soft button to mute multiple channels (in or out), so there's no way to mirror the functionality of any other mute group.

The monitor app that's due out this month looks to allow you to mix from assignable sub groups, so hopefully the sub group feature will be introduced into the mixing app at the same time. Assignable and labelable mutable sub groups are my biggest and most immediate desired feature.

Channel names are limited to six characters. This isn't the end of the world, but it's required me to shorten some of the channel names I've historically used.

You can lock an output fader to the right-hand side of the app, but this is replaced by the highlighted fader on the config screen (all other screens show the locked fader). I quickly got used to locking the Master LR to this slot whilst cycling screens; it's very easy to forget that you're not on the  Master fader from the config screen and end up adjusting the output level to the wrong channel.

The Ugly:

When the app is minimised or the iPad screen is off (I'm using an iPad Air M1 principally, but have had the same issue on other devices) the app quickly disconnects from the mixer (the WiFi connection remains), and you're required to reconnect to the mixer before you can resume mixing. It only takes a few seconds to reconnect, but it's frustrating and could cause real frustration during a gig when you're trying to trouble shoot an issue quickly. I've never experienced this drop using any other mixing apps, so hopefully it's resolvable. 

Summary:

It very much feels like it's been designed from the ground up to serve a very particular type of use case by people who are genuinely passionate. I know there are people lamenting the lack of Dante or Ultranet, among other features, but it is designed as a self-contained *small* unit and I honestly think that both features would've added cost and complexity that would make the mixer a less attractive prospect to the target audience. If I want Dante or Ultranet, I'll use a bigger mixer.

I can get the sounds I want from this mixer; it's not a home run for Allen & Heath, yet. But it's a very capable unit that has addressed many of the short comings of similar products. The hardware appears faultless, and I imagine over the coming weeks and months the software in the CQ mixers is going to get better and better, and I can't wait.

Right now, it's good enough, even with the above issues, to render my other small mixers redundant.

1 minute ago, Owen said:

They lool like the real deal. Shame about the weight. 

Yeah. I used to gig them most weeks, but they're overkill for everything I do now. I keep threatening to sell them, but I know I'll never own anything as nice again so I hold on to them (for now). If they were active and about 25 lbs lighter...

28 minutes ago, Owen said:

QSC CSM. Nice. 

They're back-breakingly heavy, but they're the best speakers I've ever owned by a mile, and it's not even close.

Another great feature is the firmware upgrade happening via the app over WiFi between my iPad and the 20B. I usually loathe updating firmware on devices for all the hoops you have to jump through, but the 20B is two buttons. One to start the process on the tablet and one to confirm the process on the unit; the whole thing took about 2 minutes; no formatting of USBs/SD Cards and downloading files from websites, just a super simple click, click.

16 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Me neither, the benefit is that you can use it on most Digital. Oxen’s but the UI is not to my liking.

 

I was thinking about this, my Soundcraft uses a brick and whilst is is a pain at times, it does meant that a power supply failure does not need an RTB.

 

The WiFi is the thing that lets the Behringer/Midas and Soundcraft down. It’s OK for the CQ18T where you have the screen built in but where you can not use an external device for the User Interface, it sucks. What is the spec of the power supply brick, volts and amps?

 

How are you finding the mic preamps? The standard Behringer and Soundcraft ones have mixed reviews with the Soundcraft Ui24R has Studer preamps and the Midas and some of the Behringer have  Midas preamps.

The 20B doesn't have an external brick. It takes an IEC C13 directly into the unit (another reason I chose the 20B over the 18T).

I haven't had an opportunity to take a critical ear to the mic pres yet, but I briefly ran  a Shure KSM8 into it whilst I played around with it last night (without EQ changes or FX) and my first impressions were good. The KSM8 is a very easy mic to work with, and without adjusting anything it reproduced my vocals excellently (through both a pair of Shure SRH840As and into a pair of QSC CSM12s). I'd say, they're transparent, but I'll reserve judgement for now. I'll have a more thorough play with a wider selection of mics tomorrow.

So far my messing has been predominantly with a Korg Nautilus and guitars and basses through a Quad Cortex at neighbour-pleasing volumes.