Max Normal

I know that this is perhaps a daft design, you can tell me it is, but I'm doing it for fun and experimentation as much as anything, so i'll probably try and avoid any reasonable but boring suggestions like VVVT circuits or switched pickups for as long as possible.

Here's what I'm building, I have a nice natural swamp ash P-bass body with standard single pickup routing I'm going to rout for 2 more pickups, a WD Jazz bass neck with a rosewood fretboard, a Dimarzio Model One mudbucker (to fit a Gibson EB3) for the neck position, a Seymour Duncan quarterpounder P-bass pickup for the normal P-bass position, and a Dimarzio Ultra-J pickup for the bridge (Thanks Santa!). I chose the pickups based on advice from some of the guys on here a few months back, and I have checked that they all have very similar resistance (as advised), so should not have a huge imbalance in output.

I want to wire each pickup to have it's own volume control like a Jazz, but also to have it's own tone control in a stacked knob configuration. This way I use the sound characteristics and string position of each pickup to develop the tone (i.e. a dark powerful bottom end from the Model One, with a glassy cut-through from the Ultra-J, and then mix in middle and P-bass growl with the Quarterpounder) Looking at other forums, I have discovered that the '62 Jazz has individual volume/tone for each of it's 2 pickups, so there is a circuit diagram that is easily developed for 3 pickups. Problems are, most forums suggest that people forget this setup and go for VVT (or VVVT in my case) as when the volume pots are set to equal values, either of the tone controls becomes a master tone - i.e. tones effect each other - you have no true control over the tone of each individual pickup. Tone control interference can be uncoupled by adding a resistor (200-300k) on the output of each individual volume/tone circuit, but this cuts the overall output of the bass by ~50% leading to an underpowered instrument (particularly in light of the high gain pickups involved), which is presumably going to also cause a terrible signal/noise ratio if there is any hum.

Questions are:

*If the tone controls effect each other in this kind of setup, did it work ok for the '62 Jazz, and if so, why, and how was it to use?
*Is this setup too complicated to have series/parallel switching? I don't want my P-bass pickup to sound thin like a Jazz.
*Is it best to wire the whole thing in parallel or series?
*Why can't I just make 3 standard P-bass volume/tone circuits (one for each pickup), and then wire them all straight to the jack so everything is in parallel (and I keep pickup power and grunt). will tone controls still interfere with each other?

This is probaby the daftest question of all, but my electronics is quite basic:

*why can't I put a diode in line with the output of each pickups volume/tone circuit to prevent the tone controls from interfering with each other, instead of a power-sapping resistor, and wire each vol/tone circuit separately to the jack as described above?

Any help greatly appreciated, thanks guys!

Warwick Streamer Stage II. Nice looking bloody expensive piece of wood and incredibly fast and easy neck, but flat and lifeless and too woody sounding despite the active circuitry. OK if you just want to play minty jazz, apart from that, overhyped crap.

OK, according the the website, Ultra J has 12.3K while Model One has 11.31K is this close enough? (sorry if I sound stoopid, new area for me).

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='950149' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:46 AM']One of the pitfalls of bunging unmatched pups into the same project is when one overpowers the other to such an extent that you get no smooth balance adjustment between them - they are effectively either on or off. Measure the Ohms of your Model One and use that as a starting point to find a suitable mate for it.
I'm guessing an Ultra J might cop it... just guessing like.[/quote]

Thanks Ou7shined and Colledge! This is exactly the sort of advice i need, I have some small electronics experience, but it seems that guitar electronics is a dark art. I do have an avometer so I'll start with that and then look at the two pickups you have suggested. One point though, if the imbalance is due to resistance, can I correct it by using different value pots?

[quote name='Colledge' post='950146' date='Sep 9 2010, 01:40 AM']as far as i know, theres nothing to stop you from using an MM style pickup, active and passive pickups work just the same, its just the circuits they're attached to that makes a difference. infact for my a-level project i made a bass with an mm pickup but p-bass passive tone circuit.[/quote]


Cool! how did it sound?

I was going to buy this epiphone EB-3 to play in my oldschool metal band, but I heard the pickups were bad, so I found this brand new Dimarzio Model One gathering dust on a shelf in America via the net for only £30.00 so I bought it. Having looked on youtube and read some forums, Epi does not look like a good choice for me, but I still have the pickup. I need a bass permanently set up 1/2 tone detuned. I don't want to change my P-bass as it changes the intonation and i need a guitar in concert pitch too. So I decided to do a custom build. I have found a nice 1 piece swamp ash P-bass body and I'm going to put a Jazz neck with a rosewood fingerboard on it. I'm then going to put the Dimarzio Model one mudbucker replacement in the neck position for extreme trouser flap, and a treble pickup in the bridge position for definition a'la Billy sheehan, but without the whole stereo setup. I'm going to wire it with a separate tone and volume for each pickup a'la Gibson, (but no pickup switch a'la Jazz Bass) and coiltaps.

problems are, what is the best pickup to put in the bridge treble position? I thought initially a J-bass pickup, but I prefer a humbucker I can tap like a Stingray pickup. Stingray is active though, so no good as the bass will be passive (also I like the look of the stingray pickup). Should I just get a single coil pickup for definition and forget about the coil-tap option? If I get a Jazz pickup, what brand should I buy? I think I'm going to need something with nice crystal clear toneful trebles and enough power to compete with the fat Dimarzio model One.

Also, I have to rout the body for both pickups, how do I know the best spot for each? I should Imagine I can put the Dimarzio Model One hard against the neck, but I am worried about putting the treble pickup [i] too[/i] close to the bridge and getting a twangy tone from it.

Any ideas/expertise?

Ta!!!
Mark

I saw this neck mounting kit, where basically you install externally self-tapping brass ferrules that also have a normal threat down the centre hole. This means that when you install the neck, the screw holes are more or less impossible to strip and you can take the neck on and off as often as you like, and you get a better contact between neck and body = more sustain and tone. I thought something like this would be ideal for the bridge as well, as you really get a good chunk of metal right down in the wood of the body, and you can get a good tight fit of the bridge onto it and really get those strings resonating the wood. I'm going to try this method with the custom build I'm working on (probably with a BadassIII or Hipshot through body mount for even more string/body contact). I'll post the results in a few weeks.

I'm Mark (Max Normal after the 2000AD character to hide ones real identity).

I have been playing for 24 years on and off I think. Originally from Dover, Started playing 6-string and had some lessons when I was a teen, I was very into Pink Floyd and the like at the time. Late teens, my mate Stewie from Aberdeen was a Paul Kossof clone and fanatic (down to both the vibrato and the alcoholism). We were sitting round the table in my Dad's alehouse and he said if I got a bass I could join his band. One of the blokes around the table said "I'm selling one!" so I bought it for 50 quid and instantly became a bass player. It was a turquoise Tokai Jazz Bass with a tortie pickguard and it looked hideous. so I cut my teeth playing the likes of Andy Frazer (Free), early ZZ-top, Rory Gallagher, Humble Pie, Lynryd Skynrd etc. My first gig was a couple of months after that pint...

Since then I have played in metal bands, function bands, blues bands on and off. I have done a bit of singing but I prefer to play bass. I moved to Brighton and everything kicked off again even though I'm 42! (still a very hairy looking bastard though), did an album release for a recording artist/songwriter called Mickey Wynne (ex Entwhistle), and now I'm playing some classic rock of the Dio and Deep Purple pursuasion with a band called the Monsters.

I have an E-series 1980's MIJ Fender P-bass that is incredibly battered but I really really like the sound, I think it's the best bass I have owned, and I have an Ampeg SVT3Pro on a 4x12 and a 1x15.

I'm a bit of a geek and I like a beer and computers and science and bikes and trouser flappage and I am mostly harmless. Really look forward to talking to some of you guys!

Had a drummer that had one, think it was called a "Cheeter" or something, had it thru a Roland TG midi brain/sampler thingy. Sounded *OK*, you could dial in lots of different pro kits, but he used live cymbols with it so it was kind of disjointed, and of course lacked the punch of a real kit.

I'd get a s/h ampeg SVT2pro to compliment your Markbass. I found Markbass a bit hifi for my own personal tastes, but than I do like the sound of valves......

Can someone help me?

I have a vintage Jap P-Bass (80's one, better sounding than the USA version IM(humble)HO that I play through an SVT3pro full stack, 1x15, 4x10, no effects. I really like the sound, power, warmth and punch of the whole rig.

Many, many years ago (probably 15 or 20) I had a weird shaped mahogany Guild bass with a set neck and a severe neck dive problem, but it played and sounded great. I was having one of my Great Clear Outs to enable me to buy a new amp so I let it go for a song. I have always been a Bruce/Frazer fan (first bassline I ever learned was "Ride On Pony" by Free) and I always wanted an EB-3 in the old days.

Now I have just mortgaged everything I own to buy the SVT stack and a PA as I have to sing as well, and could not afford a Gibson (without murdering the missus first), but I have seen this 1960's reissue Epiphone EB-3 in both long and short scales. On the gear porn section here, some dude has posted pics of his Epiphone EB-3 and it looks gorgeous. So I decided i want one (long-scale, I have to detune), and I hear great things about them on the forums apart from the mudbucker, so I found a place in the US and got a new Dimarzio Model one for £35.00 that had been sitting on his shelf since 1995.

Since then, I have looked and listened on youtube at some soundclips and to me they don't sound like a Gibson at all, all weak and honky and rattly in fact. So, do you think the Dimarzio will rescue it and make a giggable sounding guitar, or are they really just beginners instruments and i should forget about it?

and while we are on the subject, if this is the case, should I cut a hole in my scratchplate and fit the "Model One" pickup to the neck position of the P-bass Billy Sheehan Style (but with only one rig of course!).

I know, I know, I should go to a music shop and try one out, but there are none around here that has the 1960's reissue and I was going to order it online. Anyone got any experience of these as a useful gigging instrument, or the Dimarzio Model One fitted to an EB-3 or a P-bass for that matter?

PS for the record, I am currently playing stuff like Sabbath, Dio, Deep Purple, Led Zep, Whitesnake, Free, Motorhead in my band, so that's the kind of sound I'm after. Why don't I just use the Fender if it sounds so good? Because I have to detune, one bass needs to be concert pitch and one needs heavy strings and a truss to detune 1 semitone properly withour flapping. I want them both setup for their respective tuning, not switch between the two.

You don't need wide straps, weights, moving the strap buttons, helium balloons!, light tuners etc etc.

Here is how to cure your problem quickly, cheaply, effectively and without adding weight to your guitar.

When you wear your guitar, the strap crosses your hip on the right hand side (if you are right handed), and is attached to the body-side strap button. Wear a leather belt. Get your guitar into your most comfortable position and mark the point the strap crosses your belt on both the belt and the strap. Drill a small hole at the marked point on the belt (best to take it off first) and screw a spare strap button on to it. Cut a slot at the marked point on the strap. My strap actually has a spare slot higher up there anyway. For added movement you can adjust the length of the slot. If you wanted something lockable/adjustable, you could even put a little wingnut bolt/washer through there instead, or even fit a Schaller straplock.

When you strap your bass on, pop the slot over the strap button on your belt, and the neck will never dive again.

Hope this helps!

I went down to GAK in Brighton where some spotty herbert tried to tell me that these are the best thing since sliced bread. I plugged in and had a try but I have to say that although MarkBass are punchy and crystal clear, they are tonal dwarfs IMHO. I guess it depends on what you play, and if you just play metal, or slap through a big bank of effects you could crank one of these up and cut through the mix no problem. If you want a sweeter tone you can forget about it. And by the way I have to disagree, you will never, ever get an SVT-like tone out of one of these. It did really remind me of an old Trace Elliot to be honest, which is why I'd probably go for Ashdown if I had to choose between two trace clones. Either way I'll stick with my Ampeg thanks.