Wolverinebass

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1321706908' post='1442194']
As an 8-string player (and 12 string guitar) myself, I don't think that effects will ever recreate exactly the same sound you get from an instrument with multi-string courses.

However this is how I'd try it:

Split the bass signal 2 ways.

Feed one into your bass amp with your favoured bass sound - That's the sound of the main strings.

Feed the other into your octave up device. You don't want a perfect octave up but detuned by a very small amount. Output the octave up signal only.
Depending on how fast the processing of the octave up signal is you might not need to add any further delay. If you do you only want to add delayed signal. (This is where your simulation falls down since the delayed string alternates between the "root" and octave strings depending on whether you are picking up-strokes or down-strokes).
Add some chorus and feed this to your guitar amp.

Finally having tried most of 8 and 12 string basses that are easily available in this country I couldn't in all honesty recommend any of the Dean offerings unless it was very cheap second hand.
[/quote]

Big Red X has hit the nail on the head. As an 8 and a 12 bass string player myself, I can say you'll never get a good 12 string sound through using a 4 and effects. You'll get a mediocre one but that's up yourself.

As for getting a Dean. Just don't. I toyed with getting one, but decided against it after I played one. The reasons were simple. It's rubbish. However, on a less subjective level, the preamp is weak and just won't give you the chime you need from a 12 (or an 8 for that matter), and it has one of the widest 12 string necks I've ever played. Almost like a 6 string bass. By the time you get to the 12th fret you'd need hands like shovels to play it. Sod that.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. The Dean's are cheap for a reason. Which is that they're total pony. The Hamer I've got is really good, but you won't get a new one in the UK thanks to Fender insanely suggesting that the Chaparral is "too similar" to other Fender products. Come again?!! However, for that reason, you'll only get a 2nd hand one. I tried a Waterstone and that was rather good too. However the semi acoustic nature of it could be a problem for some and £1300 to spend on either of these is a lot of cash for what could go on to become a very expensive doorstop if the band doesn't work out.

For me it's "Right on Time" by the Chili Peppers. It's just too fast. I can play the thing at 122 bpm, but not 146. I had wondered if it required 3 fingers and tried it like that. Didn't make any difference. I got to 134 bpm and that was that. Good thing I never have to play it....

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1320332904' post='1425444']
Selling original designs is hard work. I have tried to design things that are of the beaten track. I have seen numerous posts on various forums say how ugly,stupid, don't see the point, any number of other disparaging remarks about my designs. Fortunately I have found enough people or they have found me to make a business out of this. But if I wanted to sell a lot of basses I would build copies because that is what the majority want to buy. I am working on a production Jazz type bass for that very reason.

I tried producing an entry level hand made bass with better hardware pre-amp etc than a Fender for a lot less than an American Fender but not Fender shaped. I have given up because I can't sell them.
[/quote]

I find that a tragedy. Nothing like a slap in the face for original thinking. As someone who doesn't do Fenders at all, I suppose I'm a bit biased. The only thing I have that is remotely Fender shaped is the Hamer 12 string. The joke here is that Hamer is owned by Fender and because of that and the apparrent "similarities" between the Hamer and Fender's own products you cannot buy one in the UK. You can only get them in the US. When did Fender ever make a 12?!!

Ultimately people go for what they think works. Whether it be a P or J. If you want upgrades, fine and there's nothing wrong with giving people what they want. It's not like the headstock says Fender does it and it's been sold down the local market as genuine is it?

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1320399154' post='1426243']
And just how many tracks could you use one on before it ended up in the dusty corner?
Not for me.
[/quote]

Fair enough mate. I think this sort of stuff is an "aquired taste." Let's face it, plenty of folk think even 5 string basses are wrong. But in terms of how much you can use it on, that depends on what type of band you're in. I think Kings X did the whole of Faith, Hope Love with a 12. Just saying. I would imagine that if you're thinking of using it with your motown covers band for example you will be awaiting the P45. Ha!!

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1320314586' post='1425102']
It's still the same as me turning my whammy on plus 1 octave with some chorus after it for the entire practise. That's pretty mind-numbingly obvious to me.
[/quote]


You'll never get the sound of a 12 through using effects. I suppose everyone's different, but with the sort of sounds I use (loads of treble) you get a chime effect that you just simply cannot re-create with effects. You'll get the note sure, but you'll never, ever get the ludicrous amounts of harmonics and overtones that a 12 string generates. It just can't be done as I wondered the same thing, so tried it for a couple of evenings with a 4 string. Didn't work.

It sounds to me as if the OP's band mates don't know what you're about to unleash on them. Use that beast correctly and you can tear down skyscrapers. Dealing with 2nd guitarists will be a page in distant history. All that harmonic content will be missed (when you stop playing) and will make the stuff sound so amazingly hollow they'll beg you to play it on everything.

However, I've had mixed reactons on mine. When I got the 8 string, everyone in my band thought this was great (ironically my guitarist especially as we have a mutual love of King's X). When I got the 12 my guitarist couldn't wait to go for a jam for aforementioned reasons. However, one of my drummer mates thought it was just stupid. Fair comment as everyone's different. Is this not expanding your sound and achieving your own style? I never queried his sanity when he got a set of cymbals made in the shape of the batman insignia.... However, I digress.

I'm looking forward to Dood's review. However, after reading the manual for this, I'm really glad I didn't wait for one since (cough, cough) 2008 when it was announced.

The fact that the passive tonestack doesn't seem to be able to be removed from the signal path would probably irritate me. The fact that the manual says "there is no flat response for these controls" is something that I find most peculiar. A flagship amp with no flat response setting? Weird that. In saying that, for what you're getting for £670 I think it's great value for money. It's not as heavy as I thought it was going to be in that it's as heavy as my HA5500.

I guess only time will tell and reviews will no doubt shed some light on how good/bad/indifferent the amp actually is.

Were it me, I'd listen to Entwistle, Geddy Lee and any bass players that fill out sound in a trio or 3 musician context. I use 8 and 12 string basses and frankly, you can tear down skyscrapers with them if you use them properly. The 8 can be played as fluidly as you normally would, but a 12 it's more difficult and utterly self defeating as you'd lose all the overtones. Maybe worth a punt....

However, it depends what you're used to. I'll never, ever play in a band that has 2 guitarists. I did 10 years ago and I didn't enjoy it. I've never met a band that can use them properly or even that creatively. Use the opportunity you're getting here to flex your chops and don't look back to your 2 guitarist days!!

A band I got asked to fill in with (by a drummer mate) had 2 "lead" guitarists. Let me put that into context, One of them was brilliant. The other one was below average. I give you the lesser guitarist. The one who always has problems with "not following me exactly." I got asked to join and I whilst I helped them finish some stuff I could sense which way the atmosphere was going with alleged "overplaying" and his very lazy playing of stuff I wrote for them. If I played like that on someone else's stuff I've give up playing as I'd be so ashamed and I wouldn't want anyone to think that I wasn't trying, as it's so disrespectful of what you're being given. However, I digress.

Stick with one guitarist. It's just so much more freeing on a playing level.

About 3 years ago when this was announced, I was well up for it. However, after ludicrous delays in which they apparently tried to make it lighter and change the front panel in the most insignificant way imaginable, here it is. I've lost interest completely. I appreciate things take time to get right, but the fact that it's taken so long is laughable in the extreme. The fact that every time someone asks about it, it's May/June/July/August/September 2009. Then it'll definitely be out!! Yeah, right. No manual online, not even a picture of the back panel.

I think this has been handled badly and probably quite a few people have probably went elsewhere. If it wasn't ready when they announced it, why announce it?

Don't get me wrong, I love Hartke stuff. It's great. I'm sure that the Kilo will probably be on a par (if not better) than the comparible Trace Elliot model. Just give a reasonable idea of when stuff is going be ready and string your customers along for nigh on 3 years..

Mostly I agree with what's been said. A while back I went through an awful patch of doing stuff and just nothing was working for me. Play too much, play not enough. Didn't matter. Now, I clearly was dealing with idiots, but it's ironic that the bands who offered me anything weren't really what I was up for due to other personel problems or whatever.

I'd just say, know the stuff as it is and a bit more flexibly as well so you can play it "as you normally would" so that stylistic differences can get sorted right there. Or not.

Be on time and just have a chat. Generally works.

The best one I did about 7 months ago (after this I gave up on the idea of joining bands). I go along. The band are 40 minutes late. We play through their stuff and it's all fine as I've done my homework. SInger is a bit ropey though and I'm not sold on it. However, now we get to the fun. The guitarist says (and I quote) "Okay, that's fine, but I can tell you're holding back a bit. Let's just have a jam. See what your chops are like." I asked him if he was sure and how far he really wanted me to go (I've found some guitarists don't really like participation from the bass that much) . "As much as you've got" came the reply. Okay then. Off we go. I'm throwing in everything I can think of that works and it was brilliant fun as the drummer was really, really good.

Now for the hilarity. The next day, the guitarist emailed me to say I could have the slot but that he felt at points I had turned the band into "The Wolverinebass Experience Band." I had tears of laughter streaming down my face. In what universe is being compared to Hendrix in terms of proficiency on your instrument been considered an insult?!! Besides, the guy had insisted I "not hold back." I gave up with bands at this point. I hasten to add, I'm not that good.

Korg DTR. Either the 1000 or 2000. No question. I tried the Behringher one once and that was enough. Wouldn't really track the drop D very well. I must admit, when I put together my almost stupidly complicated rack setup it's basically because I hate seperate floor pedals. I'm sure loads of folk would disagree, but I find rack stuff more flexible as you can just midi chain them all and when you press a floor controller, the whole rig changes. At least, that's what mine does. Some folk have rightly stated that you can just boot the floor tuner in your pocket. Fine, Each to their own, but the thought of the battery dying would fill me with dread if it was a screw job to replace it. You just know it'd happen mid gig too.....

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1318107947' post='1398254']
A cursory Google ('digital tuner kills vibe') brings up this question asked during an interview with the producer Tony Platt which I thought may be interesting:

[size=2][b]What piece of technology do you think has been the most detrimental in the evolution of the recording realm?[/b][/size]

[size=2]'It would be the digital guitar tuner. When I first started, there were no guitar tuners, guitarists would tune to the piano, as the piano was always in tune in the studio. And so the guitar players always had the capacity to hold a guitar in tune. If they heard a string going out, they’d pull it a little bit to bring it back in. So things weren’t absolutely perfectly in tune but there wasn’t this focus of attention on the tuning so much. People were focusing on getting the feel right and getting it to where it was exciting. Now what happens is one string goes out of tune, everything stops, guitarist plugs into his tuner, tunes his guitar and then starts off again, but it has broken the momentum of the session so much. And again what happens is we have this overabundance of guitar players who have this overriding reliance on this piece of technology. They’re not thinking of tuning in their head, they’re not hearing the tuning in there, they’re looking at it, on the scale on the tuner.'[/size]

Interesting... hadn't thought about the effect a tuner may have on the momentum of a recording session.
[/quote]


I remember reading in a biography of Paul Weller that when the Jam recorded All Mod Cons or maybe Setting Sons, their producer Vic Coppersmith-Heaven, I think) said "I wished Paul wouldn't insist on using Rickenbackers. They just won't stay in tune!! We must have wasted 3 whole days just tuning them."

Sod that. I was in a band with a guitarist whose guitar just would not stay in tune and seemingly never owned a tuner. I bought him one as I got so sick of it. I then had to tell him to buy a new guitar that had decent intonation. The brilliant thing in that band was that we never did "set arrangements" and every night we played the songs would maybe be slightly longer or shorter. I don't mean just going over 3 chords jamming here, I mean very tangental. That sort of stuff is the sort of musical chance taking I live for. However, it becomes nerve shredding when you realise you're playing a song that with a bit of jamming there isn't a chance in hell that you're guitarist's axe will stay in tune for the duration of it. Nightmare.

I think that Tim R's comments are right on. I actually get disappointed when artists play songs exactly as they are recorded. What's the point?!! As John Entwistle famously said "set arrangements are only fun the first 5000 times...."

[quote name='blamelouis' timestamp='1317839781' post='1395313']
Dont jack it in until you have another gig .
Advice i got and it was GOLD when i looked at how many players were "resting" for a LONG time.
[/quote]


Oh, now this is so true. I've been between bands for the last 2 years. It's horrible. Don't leave until you have something else to go to unless it's doing your head in so much you feel your head might explode. Granted I've helped out mates and done various dep gigs in between but nothing beats regular activity. When it stops, it's sometimes very hard to get back into unless of course you're not picky.

How about the Peavey IPR 1600? That weighs nothing and if you only run one side is 600W at 4 ohms. Or if you run both sides it's 530W at 4 ohms.

As a few people have said, it depends what is meant by the phrase "making it." About 5 years ago, the originals band I was in came close to signing with Parlophone. For various reasons, it didn't happen. However, I was only 27 at the time. Ironically, I considered myself "too old" even then. It's not sad people thinking that they're going to be successful in their 40's. Only if they're totally talentless does it become so.

The thing I've found as I've grown older (not necessarily wiser, I hasten to add) is that the sort of stuff I'm into (grunge, funk and progressive stuff) just nobody wants to do it well. It's so odd. Does everyone hate King's X?!! Really?!! I've also found I'm probably much less tolerant of people who are mediocre as I've been fortunate enough to play with some amazingly talented musicians who I've learned so much from. So if someone is say 27 and fairly average I look at it that they haven't put the time in. So the next blurb about "we have contacts" usually gets the short shrift.

Like what JTUK says, I've met some very delusional people who think that the massive success is just round the corner with absolutely no justification for saying so.

My own aims are somewhat more humble. I want to play gigs and music I enjoy (and hopefully just the once play a gig which I've written every song). Just basically for people to acknowledge that aside from being good at creatively swearing, I'm not a completely talentless idiot after all. A modest aim really, and not one that I'd think isn't acheivable.

If I owned this, I'd never sell it as I was under the impression that Trace made less than 100. I did play one of these a few years ago and it was just monstrous and I'm not necessarily a valve amp person. Were the price tag a bit lower, I'd imagine there would be quite a few folk on this forum with bits of your arm hanging out of their mouths....

Hi all, I recently moved house and one of the things that was on the agenda was that it had to have a garden big enough to do a studio in the garden. Okay, so I need some advice on various aspects of it as I'm drowning in stuff I don't quite understand.

The building will of course be brick built and will be at least 50 feet from any house nearby.

It's going to have a full drumkit in it so sound reduction will be the order of the day. This is one of the problems. Mrs Wolverine thinks that as it's going to have a workdesk in it, it'll affect the resale value of the house if the building doesn't have patio doors on it otherwise it'll have no natural light and you couldn't potentially say it was a home office.

I think that's going to be a bit of a problem in terms of sound leakage. Would it be possible to do something like what Happy Jack did with a big sound dampening board which can be wheeled over the doors? Would this work?

It'll be air conditioned and alarmed and all that jazz.

It'll mostly be for rehearsing with say drums and guitar (aside from myself) but I'll be doing some recording in there for myself. The sort of size I'm talking about will be about 22 feet by 15 feet. It might have say a second area with a seperate storage bit for lawn mower and various gardencrap which might be say 5 feet square.

So, suggestions and opinions would be gratefully received on how to go about this and get the noise down to something tolerable. Please when you're talking about materials, be gentle, I'm not the most building minded person on here....

Yeah, the ACS ER15's are what I use. I used to use foam plugs with the exception of about the first 5 gigs/rehearsals I did and frankly that was awful. I've been on at my guitarist to get some for years, but he's not interested/can't afford it.

After a decade of foam usage so to speak, the ACS stuff was a revelation. Everything was just taken down to the level of a mildly loud stereo. The only slight drawback (and I use the word SLIGHT) is that the 1.5kHz area is somewhat attenuated more than everything else. So, you can lose some of your percieved sound as it were. I didn't care. It's worth keeping my hearing as I'll be damned if I'm going to play quietly.

A friend of mine plays keys and the hearing loss there is really, really extreme. Basically, everything in a band context that is approaching even moderate jazz band levels causes a total breakdown and it all becomes mush due to the tinnnitus, so as a result unless we rehearsed at less than bedroom volume it proved impossible. I'd hate to have that happen to any talented musician.

What price our hearing?

I dunno. I can see both sides of this. I generally find that I gravitate towards active basses as a sound I like though I'd still sound like me no matter what I played. But, if I got told I could only play a P bass for the rest of my life, I'd go and order the tombstone and hearse right away.

[quote name='Muzz' post='1347738' date='Aug 22 2011, 08:10 AM']I've just been reading that page, when one of the stupidest things I've seen in a while jumped out at me: "The bass was so loud on stage The Who and their road crew used to vacate my side of the stage whenever I played it."

A. It's the amp, not the bass, John.
B. Turn it down a bit, John.



If that had come from a guitarist, I know what I'd be calling him... [/quote]


That quote is referring to the 8 string Alembic Explorer, not the pink explorer by Peter Cook. Just for the records.

3 or 4. I just refuse to do twin guitar bands as frankly I've never been in or auditioned for a band with 2 that knew how to use them properly. Plus the fact that I tend to play in a fairly "busy" way, it generally leads to the 2nd guitarist telling me to shutup.

The trio I did a few years ago, laughably it was myself and the drummer that got to show off somewhat as we were carrying the singer/guitarist. I enjoyed it for a time and I certainly got better for it, but in the end it wasn't equal so we both left.

Keyboard players I've found, tend to just suck all the bass frequencies so you're left with nowhere to go.

I did a duo with a mate a few years ago and despite all the space I just sat back. Wished I could do more relaxed stuff like that really.

I wouldn't get it. The thing is of course what sort of sound you want. I like loads of treble and cut. That piezo tweeter is in my opinion impossible to manage. Turn it up more than about 2/3rds and it's just brutal. Really sounds crap and "brittle" would be a good way to describe it. If you try and turn it down you can really only turn it between 4 and 5 to get something vaguely usable. Turn it off and I would say it'd be a bit muddy.

It's not all bad news though. They are very light and have some of the most aggressive upper mid range that I've ever heard. So if the whole Justin Chancellor sound is your thing, these wouldn't be too bad for it. Just for reference.

I have played a few gigs with the Traveller pair and they were fine. I just felt that for what they were, the damn tweeter should have been better implemented. Frankly, I've never really been quite satisfied with them because of that one thing. I am tempted with the whole Barefaced but when I got these cabs I think it was only the compact that was about.

I think were I buying again I'd get a Super 15 with a tweeter or a Super 12. Pity I'm not working at the moment.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' post='1321201' date='Jul 30 2011, 11:53 AM']I feel the same way when people want more for a bass thats had a setup to be honest, £30 on a setup for you means nothing to me and if the bass was in such an unplayable state that only a pro could get it back to where I could adjust it to my taste then whats been going on with it in the first place?[/quote]


Now that is so true. "It's been set up professionally" screams the ad or advertiser. Yeah, but I bet you don't like the action as low as I do, so I'll still have to spend £30 to get it lowered down to nothing anyway. How is that a negotiating point? The advertiser might as well say, "It's been set up in a way that will make it very different from what you ideally would want. Hope that's okay for you to pay for this privelige then pay for it again to get the bass set up as you would like." Good luck mate and dare I say it, jog on.

Truth be told, I'm not sure if I really like this or utterly hate it. Bits of it are great, bits of it, less so. This is so far removed from what I do I don't know what to say about it. Do I like it because it's unlike me or hate it for the same reason?

This is the Marmite reaction which I'm sure lots of folk who have watched it have thought in some way or other. It certainly can't be said that he's talentless or can't play "properly" whatever that means....

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='897215' date='Jul 17 2010, 12:26 PM']IME shortscales ( 30" ) are easier to manoeuvre but the sound is less defined.[/quote]

Depends on what price bracket you're talking about though I would agree on passive shortscales being a bit, well, wooly as I learned on one. I wouldn't say my Alembic Stanley Clarke has a "less defined" sound than say a 34" Jazz bass for example. It can literally rip your face off it's got so much upper mids and treble. Just my opinion though.