Ken Smith

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1271110' date='Jun 16 2011, 05:11 AM']In the old days they were both built by one shop I forget who built whose but those 2 were closely tied once.[/quote] Some time in 1983 after Vinnie had worked about 3 years with/for me in Brooklyn we made arrangements for him with 2 partners to buy the shop fixtures, machines and assume the rent/lease. I was still a full time Musician at that time but still came out to the shop almost every day and personally made most or the neck and body blanks as well as planing fingerboards, cutting up wood and so on. Every bass from the first to the current were set up on my bench which was then in my NYC Apartment/Studio. In 1983 when we made our purchase/transfer deal I still had several neck and body blanks made up mostly by my hand that I wanted to have completed. There were not all that many made after the shop sale which by the way included a move 2 doors down because the landlord wanted my corner location for his son's Pizza shop so there was delay of several month's till Vinnie and his 2 partners could move everything as well as set-up a new shop. I would have to go back and look if possible and maybe count them up but no more than 100 basses in those 2 years is my estimate. Only about 200 basses were made in total in NY over a 6-7 year period. I think there were 16 bass blanks made in the Spector Shop (1979-1980) where Vinnie had worked and a 2nd 16 as well but not fully completed as I recall having to re-carve one. Spector used a shop called 'Valentine Wood Carving" back then for his basses as well as mine using a 16 spindle dupli-carver to make the instrument blanks. Then put together, finish carve, sand and finish. I think we made a run or two with them as well because our larger circuit went into them. Then we started just making everything in the shop as we didn't need 16 of one model as they would sit forever. In 1984/85 while they were finishing up work that was already started, I began setting up shop in Pennsylvania. This was done gradually as again, I was still a full time musician. We made the first PA basses in 1985 with the set-necks known as the Dovetail but to be correct, these were hidden mortise joints. Here in PA I was able to find some great woodworkers and eventually, the Neck-Thru model was considered as easy or easier to make over the Set-neck so we stopped making those and only made the Neck Thru models. We did things quite differently here in PA then we had done in NY and our Basses took off like wildfire. We were back ordered for a year of two in advance once the new models came out. That was only slowed by another world recession but by the early 1990's we were booming again so I made plans to move out to PA and work full time in the shop. I had already retired from playing by 1988 and was busy between the NY office/showroom with completing basses, shipping them and the String business as well as traveling out to the shop spending about half my time in PA the last 2 years before moving out the end of June of 1995. So, from the 6,000 plus basses with the Smith name on them, Fodera 'touched' less than 200 of them. The way we make them here are different in many ways and we are proud of what we do. Being out of NY we don't have to charge anywhere near what they do hour for hour, pound for pound. Our prices from about 1988 till now in 2011 (23 years) have only risen at an average about than 3% a year, less than inflation over time. How do we do it? Simple, get out of NY and don't draw 2 or 3 executive NY expense level salaries and, make enough basses to fill your orders in a reasonable amount of time. As you might notice, Smith basses hold their value overtime in the used market as well because, they are very well and reasonable priced. We put as much and even more detail in the current basses as we did the older ones.

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' post='1269428' date='Jun 14 2011, 06:27 PM']What you're saying makes total sense Ken. I agree that there's got to be a limit where a bass is no longer your responsibility, you can't be responsible for basses that have had decades of use and abuse. I think some complaints are justified though. It's not fair that Bassbluestew gets lumped with a minimum order cost of $300 because someone before him had you running in circles, likewise on the costs of postage on cheap parts, people on here buy strings from the US all the time and the postage is minimal for something that probably weighs and costs more than the parts people have talked about in this thread. Maybe, since the parts aren't any profit to you, if they're available in europe, you could tell your UK reps what parts they are and they could supply them independently of you. Obviously it's better if the parts come from you so that they're definitely the right parts, but it sounds like that would cut costs and bother for everyone involved. I don't know if it's possible though. Thanks for signing up and giving objective views from your side though, it's easy to get carried away with bashing brands and people when they're not around to defend themselves and it's equally easy to get carried away agressively defending yourself when you find out that people have been bashing you without your knowledge.[/quote] Please understand I mean no disrespect to anyone when I give prices which actually reflect my cost to do business. On the other hand, we are not a retail parts supplier. We are a manufacturer and if someone wants a bottle of Polish or a Strap, it is a fraction of an order of what we would require a company to make it worth all the business steps to go thru. On the other hand, if someone has a broken bass, new or old, that is different. We want the bass back 'on the road' asap but in many cases, bass owners must pay their part as well. As far as sourcing parts, the parts made to fit our circuit boards are made usually special to the exact size and spec we need them. I have no idea the exact make or model of parts that we buy from another supplier here that stocks the extras and who makes our printed circuit boards. One time we were short on switches in which we wait 4-6 months for each batch we order. Someone mentions his wife distributes that brand of parts where she works. I said ok, here are the specs, threaded shaft length, color of metal and, gold plated contacts. The next day, "oh, that;s custom, they have to make those from scratch"!. Like I didn't already know that.. lol Most of what is on our basses is made specifically for them from scratch. Did you know I personally ground down every Strap Lock end in the beginning to recess them? I still have the File I used in 1979. Then, my friend got a milling machine so I shipped him batches of the buttons to grind down and save my elbows. Then, 6-7 years later, Dunlop BOUGHT that Product from the company that made them and offered to make for me and market 'The Recessed Strap Lok model'. So, those parts you can buy now. Still, people buy from us when ordering. Selling small orders in the USA is MUCH easier all around. Once you cross the border, we have payment issues and shipping issues not to mention People Issues!! A girl calls and says, "my ex-boyfriend used my visa card and we are not together now so I want a refund". Who wants to be in the money loosing end of that transaction fighting Visa from some country for the few dollars 'gross' we made which is actually, we lost about $30 in total on the whole deal considering all the time and business work for the transaction?

[quote name='bassbluestew' post='1269287' date='Jun 14 2011, 04:54 PM']I have PM'd you the relevant email. It wasn't me on the end of the transaction as I haven't made any transactions - yet. S[/quote] What I meant was that your request may have been the following one after that one that was so much trouble. I have no idea what you had asked for so I am at a disadvantage to discuss it. I did get your email message and it seems it was the case as mentioned. There are different subjects here as far as minimums, service and responsibility. They range from someone wanting to 'buy' something 'small. and have it shipped half way around the world for whatever bass or reason or, some used 10-20 old bass came to you 2nd or 3rd hand and you 'think' you know what part will fix it or, you just bought a new bass and something is not right about it. We will treat each circumstance here differently as they are all different levels of want, need and deserved.

[quote name='icastle' post='1268963' date='Jun 14 2011, 01:02 PM']Have you considered shipping them a box of the most requested spare parts along with their next shipment of straps? It'd save you a lot of messing about for a $15 part... [/quote] No. How would we know what who needs and when. The basses do not break under normal use. Also, the dealer would have to buy the parts so maybe ask them. They are new to our basses and they are in the UK. I don't know in Europe who buys from whom. Today I am sending a Truss rod nut (stripped by using the wrong wrench) and a set of strings to Turkey. I am having lunch now and my sandwich costs more than what I will make on that order.

[quote name='bassbluestew' post='1268806' date='Jun 14 2011, 11:02 AM']Hi Ken, it was just a few months back...........I haven't owned my bass for too long. I'll be happy to send you the email, but to be honest I'm really not too concerned. I really just wanted a nice Smith strap to go with my bass ( you know how we bassists can be - wanting everything all matching and all ) and I apologise if this came across as an attack. This was not my intention. Glad to see your still checking in, I repeat it's good to have a luthier of your reputation and quality on board and hope we can look forward to developing a more mutually enjoyable relationship. S[/quote] Well concerned or not, I want to see it. I remember after the last time I had a small order I had to make 3 trips to retrieve the money. It was a royal pain for maybe $35. or so by Money Gram. I just came back from Western Union. It takes time to get these small amount of which we make virtually nothing on the order at best. You might have been on the end of that transaction that took forever so I may have made a policy concerning the trouble we go thur since our bank prefers not to bother with individual foreign credit card sales. Too small of an amount to amortize the time and trouble. Also, in the UK we have a guy you can buy from now anyway. Bass Direct as well as String Busters.

[quote name='bassbluestew' post='1268171' date='Jun 14 2011, 03:01 AM']I'm glad a little balance has been restored and hope Ken reads those comments too Oh and as I said in a previous mail it was I who made the 300 buck minimum overseas order. I have checked back my emails and that is indeed what it said. It was a private email sent to me by Ken himself so I wont be posting it up for general consumption but if you feel you can't live without seeing it I'll pm you a copy on the proviso that you don't post it up. Suffice to say I wasn't mistaken.[/quote] If it was a several years ago when we only took bank wires for foreign orders, that might have been our standard minimum. I don't remember. Email me those old emails as well. Maybe then I can read all that was said and not have to dodge blind attacks from old comments with no information to fill out the situation what was.

[quote name='skidder652003' post='1267679' date='Jun 13 2011, 01:37 PM']well if im honest it was me who brought this to kens attention, heres his reply: Ok, read it all. What a pile of sh*t these guys talk. So many lies and re-interpetations. I can't spend time fighting books of wo[b]R[/b]ds fixing the bent minds of these people.. Everyone that calls here can talk to me. Every order we take is filled to the letter. If not, we correct it. We tell people what we believe to be true. Then they can buy as the wish. I only contradict if I think I am helping them. Life is too short. The CR model was never a Chuck Rainey model in our literature but dedicated to him after it was designed by the request of his wife at the time in 1991. Chuck and I are still friends and he can play or buy what ever he likes. Another bullshit story. KSD's were nev[b]E[/b]r expensive basses. The 1990s Burners were our produc[b]I[/b]ton/import bass and after 1993 had the same circuit as all of our basses. That[b]'[/b]s the pot of one broken. The first KSD's were by Brooklyn Gear and made in Korea. They sold for under $1000, some times 500-600. Then D'Andr[b]E[/b]a did 'their' distribution and eventually by agreement took over the line. By using ou[b]R[/b] name and some designs, we collect a small royalty. We sold a few of the early Korean models to help with local players and visitors. About 20 in total in our records of the earlier Korean production, period. So many lies, mis truths and just made up sh*t storm there but I need to work, not fight an angry mo[b]B[/b] with computers that type faster then me so I can only talk to those that talk to me. Thanks for the email. [i]he's also a bit pissed with me cos i joined his forum as hugh jarse, but i hope he's cooled down now he's vented his spleen... [/i][/quote] Oops.. no one commented about the Typos so, I will go above in the quote and fix them. Oh and his name is Steve Marks according to his email. Thanks Steve for the bringing this to my attention. If the Mods want to close this, so be it. I don't care either way.

[quote name='tournesol74' post='1267588' date='Jun 13 2011, 12:36 PM']Whaoouuuu ! so many people here ! Sorry I was moving for 3 days... The only thing I can say Mister Ken is that I don't feel to pay 100$ for the shipping of a pot, even if I am in France, and I wanted to know what the basschater were thinking about it. that's all[/quote] The $100 was the UPS quote and then I quoted you $25-30 for registered Post or something as guaranteed as possible, right? I just took an order for a Part plus one set of strings to Turkey and the Total is $73.. The Shipping by Post is $25 included in that amount. No arguments, and I offered two ways of shipping. I replied after hours at first and didn't have the Postal rate to give without my shipper checking but did say we can get it. We give quotes every day to people around the world. The price is the price. I just collect the shipping and I did not break your bass.

Ok, I read the last few pages since I posted, most of which has nothing to do with the subject but whatever. The Original poster/complainer finally replied to me after several emails I have sent him. He feels he has done something good by attempting to smear our reputation. Bottom line. You buy used, your dispute is with the seller, not the maker of the product. You buy something 15 years old discontinued almost as long as that, you have to buy what you need for it. Nothing is owed to you except maybe from the used seller who sold it unless you broke it after the sale. Breaking a control in an active unit might send a power surge thru the circuit and fry something inside. We never replace single pots in this type of situation. We replace the unit with either a new or re-built one because the labor to fix one single part is not worth it if there are hidden electronic problems in the circuit FROM that initial visual breakage. The other option is to send the circuit to us to send out to the lab to have rebuilt. If the bass walked in here, we would replace the unit, give some labor credit towards a new or re-built unit, collect the fee and send him on his way, while waiting if he walks in early enough. Then we would send that unit back out if it can be saved and re-build it for the next person. Just like a re-built auto transmission. We give the same warranty of 1 year against manufacture defects in our work under normal use for both new and re-built units. We do not warranty against actual physical breakage by a person or in shipping if dropped. This circuit was replaced by our current model back in 2004. We only have a few of these left in new and re-built to sell for repairs or after market but before long, the older parts may be difficult to find and we will then stop offering them. I have probably no less than about 10 hours of my time on this guy and the bottom line is, he has to buy what he needs. We are not responsible for his problem and have given him all the information how to buy what he needs, over and over. This is not a customer service issue and his bass is not a current bass purchased from us but bought second hand, about 15 years old or so (1993-1998 est) and he prefers to spend is time typing on line rather than working to earn the few dollars to order the part. I still can't say if that part will fix his problem. We did not test the bass here ourselves and do not know if anything within the circuit is fried either. Re-building involves a full test, any and all needed parts replaced and usually, ALL new Pots. "That is all I have to say about that!"

[quote name='Doddy' post='1266271' date='Jun 12 2011, 11:32 AM']Just going away from the subject slightly..... Ken... are your old Music Minus One books still available?[/quote] Yes, as far as I know. Try Googling them. I got a Royalty check not long ago for the 4th quarter 2010 for both bass and drum records I titled. The ones I played on as a sideman are not all still out there from what I have found, maybe some of them. Mine were reissued in CD form in the mid 1990's but they cut a few tunes from each double album to fit the CD space.

[quote name='RhysP' post='1266177' date='Jun 12 2011, 10:26 AM']But where then, as a businessman, do you draw the line? The OP gets his free pot, goes on all the bass forums & tells everyone he got it free & what a great guy Ken Smith is. This puts Ken in the position of having set a precedent of sending stuff out for free. The next person he charges for a replacement part then goes on all the forums & starts bitching about it not being fair because other people got their stuff free. [b]You can't win in this situation.[/b] Let's remember that we're talking about an old secondhand bass the OP has here. All my basses are secondhand & made by small high end companies. I've sent emails to them about various things in the past, including buying merchandise. I've got replies to some, others have had none. I'm not about to go stamping my feet & saying what a bunch of bastards **** are for not treating me as a valued customer even though they've never actually seen a penny of my money. We're talking about small businesses here, not some multinational company who can afford to have a dedicated team of customer service advisers dealing with queries & complaints 24/7.[/quote] This is so true and thanks for posting. It's a no-win situation in the long run. Sometimes people call for replacements of parts of strings and the brand that broke isn't even ours. The assumed we wouldn't check and just ship stuff for free because they asked. You guys watch the news, right? A million Cars or Shoes made and sold and to happy customers. NOTHING in the News about it UNTIL, something breaks. Then, all hell breaks loose and the company isn't good anymore. Have you heard much good news at all on TV or in the Papers or only the Bad stuff that happens? Most people who post on line do not use their real name so no one knows who they are, where they are, what they do, how old they are [b]or[/b] if the information the put in their profile is even true. Then, they come out and point the finger at someone or some company that has a real name and address. Not easy to defend is it? I will not address ever gripe here whether true, false or exaggerated. Maybe if I was some anonymous guy I would be at equal odds with the anonymous complainer. My Forum requires only real full names and for a good reason. So we all know where people are coming from and who they really are. If I find out I have a wrong or fictitious name for a person, I get it fixed or deleter the member for posing. In truth and business there must be trust. How can you trust everything you hear is it comes from behind an invisible wall, no face, no name, no ID, no proven reputation and maybe, he's still in 4th grade even. Who knows. Many years ago I received a package in the Mail from, someone saying 'these strings are defective. Please send another set'. They were NOT Smith strings. They were actually Piccato, some English brand which I was familiar with. they were old and used, not broken. So, I looked up the phone number for that name and address in Oregon, USA. Some kid answers the phone and I ask about the other brand strings he sent and that they are not Smith strings. He said 'I know, my mommy helped me write the letter". I had two such attempts around the same period and the other was also an English string (I am not making this up). Same kind of results. Just looking for a freebie. When you have a business and a product you can easily become a target for people wanting to get something a little extra. Many of the people that say they will never buy our bass according to their own profile do not have instruments in that price range anyway. Maybe they might some day and maybe they just wanna join a Gang and sound tough or smart. I don't give it all that much attention. Just anonymous posters making anonymous comments. It is easy to accuse someone of saying or doing something 5, 10 or 20 years ago or even yesterday and some people will believe it because you cant defend hearsay. On the other hand, you can't prove it either. I might as well spend all day arguing with my wife. Right or wrong, I can never win, not in the long run. She's always right, even when she's wrong. I am so glad she doesn't play the bass.. oooooooooooooo Ok, I have to get in gear here because I have a rehearsal and need to do a few things before. Then pick which Double Bass I am going to bring to this Orchestra rehearsal, pack my car and go make a few dollars. Unlike most all other people in this product business, I made my living for 20 years in NYC 'playing' the bass. On all my tax returns for that period it said under occupation "Musician". So, you guys are dealing with a bass player with 20 years experience in the streets of New York. I don't give in to pressure all that easily. I lived pressure! Then again, what's fair is fair and all of you should understand that and respect that. There are also professional bass players out there making their living playing bass that studied bass with me as private students so I am not just a guy who sells parts for broken basses. I know how they are played and how they get broken. The Smith bass did not fall from the sky. It was a well thought out professional product and to this day, they are still way under prices from what I have seen out there with other basses and prices I just can't believe.

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1265692' date='Jun 11 2011, 09:49 PM']Ken, Thanks for signing up and setting the record straight on a few things. I think whats important here is that we identify the fact that Kan has done nothing wrong. He runs his business in a way that he believes to be fair, reasonable & honest. His prices are based on demand and manufacturing costs whilst making adequate profit to sustain the business - This is no different any other successful company in the world. Now before anyone yells at me disagreeing with this statement, I think its also fair to say that as the business has sold over 6000 basses and is still going strong, Ken should have little reason to beleive that anything is 'going wrong'. Indeed I'm sure if you read every post on Basschat referencing Ken Smith basses you would find 100 'Ken Smith Basses are amazing/gorgeous/stunning/the best in the world' for ever 1 post complaining about customer service. I would suggest that Kens customer service is based on 6000 odd happy customers whom we don't hear from, as opposed to the few that we do. I have never visited the Ken Smith forums but I would be happy to put money on it being full of people like us who think Ken's customer service is stunning. From this hopefully we can learn, that like every human, and every company, sometimes you can get things wrong. Maybe Ken shouldn't of quoted the huge UPS price UNTIL he had the USPS price as well, maybe he should of chosen better words when dealing with customers at times etc etc… I'm sure Ken will go away from this now with some negative feedback to stack up against the thousands of happy customers and hopefully use it to his advantage to highlight the areas that a small percentage of people feels he gets wrong. Ken, would you say this is true/fair? At the same time, basschat is a community and news travels fast. We do see positive feedback voiced here, but lets be honest, its the negatives that we see and remember. Its apparent that a couple of posters here including the OP felt the customer service was a real let down. Ken has explained his actions to date and also tried to rectify and explain each case post by post. Hopefully as a community we can attempt to 'wipe the slate clean' and take a view on Mr Smiths customer service from this point forwards. Ken has already declared that he now handles all emails and communication and takes the comments here seriously, so that paired with our feedback should mean a renewed level of customer service to match the absolutely stunning instruments! I for one would like to see Mr Smith welcomed on basschat after any 'bad air' has settled as I KNOW he has a huge wealth of information to bring to the table. There was some discussion over Dingwall's a while back, after Sheldon joined us and cleared up a few misconceptions. His posts were informative and he answered questions in a way you'd hope an expert would. Ken, I for one would like you to prove us wrong going forwards and pop back from time to time (when business permits) as I'm sure many would find your input to discussions here very welcome. Shep P.S. Its 2.49am, I've been gigging and my eyes are so tired I can hardly keep them open - as such please let me off any shocking typos and grammatical errors! [/quote] Nicely said and thanks for all the complements as well. I am still working my way around this Forum. Things here look different as compared to the Talkbass forum software as well as my own Form. But then again, your guys are English and drive on the Wrong side of the road, right?.. lol As far as that one comment about waiting to get all the costs and not just the UPS at first, my goal was to answer him right away as he did have a problem and seemed concerned. I also said that Postal would be half or less than UPS. That $100 UPS number put him in shock and blinded him from the get go. I will be glad to answer questions when I can but from what I see here, all I need to do is add Twitter to my contact list and I can change my profession on my tax return as 'Typist'

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='45301' date='Aug 14 2007, 11:20 AM']KA designs pickups, but the bulk building of their pickups excepting custom wounds etc are made in Korea. Ken Smith pickups are designed by KA and made in Korea.[/quote] What? Korea? No, we do not have any Pickups from Korea and the designs are by Kent and myself combined. I made the first mold masters myself with Kent in the shop. To this day we still make the Master and this has nothing to do and never did with any of our Pickups coming from Korea. These are the Pickups I am talking about; [url="http://www.kensmithbasses.com/accessories/Parts/pickups.htm"]http://www.kensmithbasses.com/accessories/Parts/pickups.htm[/url]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='1265669' date='Jun 11 2011, 08:36 PM']Before I go you first posted at 10 this was posted at 1 that's 3 hours.[/quote] lol. You just wont let it rest.. I had to read 6 pages first and then sign in. That was the 4th hour which includes time to go back and read all those emails. Hey. am I on trial here Sherlock?

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1265620' date='Jun 11 2011, 07:46 PM']What kind of unusual toxins are in the Ken Smith bass process that requires special trucks?[/quote] Gee, Electronic Shielding Paint. Please read carefully. I have been on this now for 4 hours. Where can I send the Bill! Lacquer is a has-mat material as well. Anything with solvents. If something breaks or spills and you didn't do it right, expect some type of Government visit at the least.