Mornats

Well, a partial success. The gain knob on the amp will push enough volume into the Guitar Rig interface to give me a good sound without bringing in hiss. I have to have it at 3/4 to full to get a decent signal though. So at least I can record pre-eq now but I can only get the high gain sound rather than the slightly cleaner sound of the lower gain setting.

In other news, it looks like Ashdown are bringing out amp simulation software. They posted a screenshot on their Facebook page of an ABM 900 amp sim on an iPad. Hopefully they'll have a VST/AU version too.

On my Overwater (Tanglewood made, but still with a John East 2 band EQ preamp in it) I usually keep the bass and treble flat or slightly boosted. The bass, I move a couple of mm up, or have it flat. The treble I either keep flat or boost it by 2-10mm of a turn depending on how much extra treble I want to have to help cut through the mix. I tend to keep them flat mostly and pop the 5khz 6db boost control if I need string noise or an added edge to cut through. For most of my playing style I prefer to roll the pickup pan about 10mm towards to P pup. Gives a nice P-ish sound with a bit of J hiding in there. This tends to work well when put through flat EQ on my amp.

I've never tried putting the bass and treble on full boost. The bass on full boost belts out a lotta bass so it's probably good that I don't!

I forgot to say congrats on getting your first bass and welcome to the club! I want to mention a "throw yourself into the deep end" joke too but can't work out how to fit it in. Hehe.

Anyway, even though you've just started out you could maybe look at recording stuff. Sounds scary at this early stage but only you have to hear the stuff you record and it's a fantastic thing to do for several reasons. It can really help show you where you're getting things right and where you're getting them wrong. If you do something good (and "good" is relative, it just needs to be good for you) you can hear it over and over and share it with people too. It can also help with learning. Many a time I've wanted to record a piece that sounds like something that's in my head so I'll go off and learn how to do it. I couldn't play guitar until I needed some guitars on some of my tracks and what you hear on them is 100% what I'm capable of playing.

Anyway, I posted this the other week which may help get you started: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176553-mini-guide-to-starter-gear-for-recording-cheaply"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176553-mini-guide-to-starter-gear-for-recording-cheaply[/url]. You won't need everything on here but there's some good free stuff mentioned on there. And anyone on here can help you too if you ever get stuck.

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1338380982' post='1673549']
A book i highly recommend is Bass Guitar For Dummies, it goes over everything you need to get a great start to your bass playing journey. If you came on here asking about what bass to get as your first, i'd have also recommended an Ibanez, brilliant basses in any price range.

Liam
[/quote]

+1. I got this book to start with and recommend it too. Covers what you need to get up and running and writing your own tracks (well, it did that for me!)

I'll do that step by step and let you know the results. Just one question, do you mean the gain on the amp or the input gain on the interface? Maybe I need to work with the gain on the amp to get some volume out of it. In my initial tests, going pre-eq allowed me to turn up the input gain on my interface to about 4 o'clock and get a good clean sound at decent volume (with the amp's master volume at zero). Switching to post-eq and I get nothing unless I turn the amp's master volume up. I can get it on 2 (out of 10) safely in my living room but I need to put the input gain up on the audio interface to around 6-7 o'clock which is where I get the mass of hiss and even then, the volume going into reaper is about half what I get plugging the bass straight into the interface.

So I think shinoman's right that the hiss is coming from the interface. If I plug a low-output bass (still active, just lower output) directly into the interface I can turn it up to max without hiss so I'm only actually getting the hiss with the amp plugged in. So that could be the XLR input on the interface, the XLR lead or the amp causing the hiss. Hmmm.

Anyway, I'll do what you said step by step and report back Cheers!

I'm not actually running the guitar rig software, just using the interface. So basically it's the same as recording a completely clean signal from the bass into Reaper but instead, taking the signal from the amp. Pre-eq is fine, it's just post-eq that isn't. I've actually emailed Ashdown to ask about it so just waiting for their reply.

It's a shame as I'll have to mic it up if the DI isn't working and I'll have to contend with the fan noise from the amp, any ambient noises in the room and deal with mic positioning, oh and buy a mic! I wanted a nice easy way to do it so hopefully Ashdown will come back with something.

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1337791497' post='1665551']
Just in case Damian Hirst is reading this. My favorite bass is a 61 jazz [i]too[/i]
[/quote]

Yeah, and me. I won't even mind if one of your assistants did the paint job Damian. Birthday's in September mate so plenty of time.

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1337805960' post='1665873']
Just in case Flea is reading this. Why the f*** do you keep changing your basses? Some people here would like to know.
[/quote]

If I were Flea, or at least a famous-band bass player I'd probably do the same. Hell, if I could afford to pick and choose any bass I wanted for recording and gigging NOW I'd have a whole stack of 'em.

I think the bass has to have some black on it to pull off the black blocks. Wooks' natural Jazz above looks fantastic but that green one from the OP looks ew.

I love the pearl blocks on the maple board of my Overwater ([url="http://overwaterbasses.com/gallery/aspiration-gallery/#lightbox%5BContemporary%5D/0/"]http://overwaterbasses.com/gallery/aspiration-gallery/#lightbox[Contemporary]/0/[/url] - except mine's got a black body).

Edit: link didn't work as intended. It's the one at the bottom.

Oh, and I'm finding that I'm so used to the blocks now, I have to think a little about where my hands are when I'm playing a bass without them! So I guess they help somewhat. But like Bluejay, I find the dots on the side of the neck to be the most help.

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1338096497' post='1669497']
Anyway, I wonder if I could plug my aggie into my setup for a different sound?.
[/quote]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. It should be possible although of course the contribution to the sound that the speaker makes will be taken out of the equation.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1338111818' post='1669645']
could you not just unplug your speaker and monitor using the monitor out of your audio interface? Solid state heads are ok with that sort of thing.
[/quote]

I could try that. My amp has a dual tube valve pre-amp in it so I'm not sure if that would be bad for it though?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1338112291' post='1669655']
Sounds like poor amp design. The DI output should be pre-master volume (irrespective of whether it is pre or post EQ), so that adjusting your amp volume on-stage doesn't change the level of the feed to the PA.
[/quote]

That's what I thought. If you're on stage and are going through the PA and use the amp for your monitor then it'll mess up the mix if you tweak it. That doesn't sound right to me. I'll pop Ashdown an email, they've been really good at getting back to me quickly.

Ah ok, then I suspect it's volume related and I just need to turn the amp up to get a good clean signal from it. Bye-bye neighbours!

I don't have a passive bass so can't try that one. I'll test it again but the hiss is more to do with how much I turn up the input knob on the interface rather than the amount of treble on there. When i tried earlier the changes I made to the eq didn't seem to affect the amount of hiss. I still think it's either lack of ground lift or I'm just upping the volume too far on the interface to make up for the low volume that I had the amp on. Might take the macbook and interface to band practice to test out the volume theory.

Ok, I got myself an XLR - XLR lead and gave it a shot recording through my Guitar Rig Session. Setting the DI to pre-eq works a treat but I'm getting a lot of hiss when I record post eq. I think I know what this is, but I'm sure you guys could confirm it.

So, obviously when recording post-eq the volume of the combo affects the volume that goes into the Guitar Rig interface. So at home, the amp has to be fairly low volume. I can compensate fo this by turning up the input knob on the interface but when I get past halfway (and way before it starts clipping) I get a tonne of annoying hiss. So basically, I can't get a decent strength signal from my combo unless I shatter all the glass in the house with volume. The volume I can get is less than half the volume I usually record at which isn't any good.

Am I right that I need to turn the amp way up to avoid sending a whole load of hiss to the Guitar Rig interface?

Here's what I know about the equipment if it helps:

Combo: Ashdown Touring 220. Balanced XLR DI out. Doesn't mention specifically that it has a ground lift (which is where my thoughts are about the cause of the hiss).
Cable: DV Pro XLR-XLR ([url="http://www.dv247.com/cables/dv-high-performance-microphone-cable--88029"]http://www.dv247.com/cables/dv-high-performance-microphone-cable--88029[/url]).
Interface: Guitar Rig Session I/O: Balanced XLR input.

Quite disappointing really as I can't record the amp's sound without grabbing a mic and miking it up.

You can try a different brand of string. I've currently got Overwater Light Gauge Nickel, GHS Bass Boomers and Ernie Ball Super Slinkys (the pink packet) on 3 of my basses and out of all of them the Slinkys sounds the weakest. "Clangy pieces of crap" I've called them. Strangely, the GHS and Overwater strings sound and feel identical. They even degrade the same way (leading me to believe they're from the same factory).

A different amp setup could help. Even though I hate the slinkys on my bass, when I put it through my Ashdown 220 Touring combo they sounds alright. They get some bottom end back.

Just shared your FB post. Hope you get it back, that's one helluva nice bass.

Well, hugs first

The open mic night sounds like a great idea. But I reckon there are loads of musicians (of vastly varying ability) who would just like some other people to jam with. I looked on joinmyband for ages and always bottled it due to being completely underconfident about my ability to play well enough. I struck lucky though and heard a drummer and guitarist practicing at a pub 5 mins from my house and asked them if they needed a bassist (which they did). Learnt a few songs and it turned out that our 4th practice together (all three of us, me and the bassist had practiced together a couple of times in between) was a 20 min slot at the Mayfair Festival in Nailsea. Sounds a bit more impressive than it was, it's just a funfair in a small town but still, we pulled it off!

So yeah, you could always pop an ad on gumtree/joinmyband or speak with your bass tutor (I think I read that you had a tutor in the thread) or even here on BC... you know there's a good bunch of people on here.

I washed my hands then went home and cradled my Overwater.

[quote name='jackers' timestamp='1337351348' post='1658672']
I have to say, I am seriously tempted to walk back into PMT after work and buy that VM, it was very nice.
[/quote]

I've got 5 basses, don't need any more and even I'm tempted to walk into PMT and buy one!

I tried my first Fender P bass the other week when I was trying out some amps. It was a MIM Fender P, not sure of the exact spec but it was £500 ish. I have to say that it felt distinctly average. Felt poor at first but then I got used to it but it's simply not in the same league (by several leagues) as my £600 Tanglewood-made Overwater. It wasn't even as nice as my £280 cheap Dean Hillsboro, although the Fender MIM did sound nicer than my Dean ever has.

I haven't tried the Squire VM but think I need to based on what people are saying about them. I've tried a range of Fender Jazz's though, the best being a beautifully set up MIA standard jazz that was amazing to play. Tried another one in a different shop though and it was ok, fairly good but not great. Tried a Fender Geddy Lee too and felt it wasn't worth £800 or so. Nice neck, horrible clangy sound. Tried some others, all awful, hence why I got an Overwater. I wasn't even intending to buy a guitar that day, I just had to buy it after not being able to put it down for 45 mins in the shop.

Incidentally, you could buy 7 Squire VMs for the price of the 62 (assuming they'd knock £50 off for a bulk buy). I just can't see why there's such a big price difference for such a relatively small difference in quality. It's crazy that the mid-range priced basses just don't fill the gap quality-wise too.

Cheers mate, they look the biz. Good prices too!

Nice work in sorting this out guys, hope you've got beers lined up for yourselves this weekend.

If it makes you feel better, I had a UPS blow up in my face yesterday just as I was going to leave work. Not nice seeing the entire server room power down abruptly! I don't even work in IT, I'm on the web team and only popped my head around the door to say bye to our IT guy. Ah well!

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1337172877' post='1656585']
Not as good as "This drummer is at the wrong gig", anyone seen that one?
[/quote]

No, got a link?

Great video. Tempted to post it on Facebook but doubt anyone I know has heard of bass players.

Not sure if this is allowed, but if loads of you chip in with advice, this may become a long post! I plan to update the above based on what people say as it's easier to get the info that way. So this is a reserved post for some overspill, assuming of course that I can edit this post in the future...

I thought I'd try to start a guide about getting started in recording your own music, focusing on the bass of course, as cheaply as possible. I think it's a lot easier than most people think to start recording their own stuff. I never thought I'd manage it but after some gentle encouraging from a friend I got into it and haven't looked back!

So as a start, here are some suggestions from me and I'm sure more people will chip in with their own advice.

[b]Your Computer[/b]

Mac or PC, that's your choice. They're both more than capable but I won't go into details here on what's best to have inside your computer. Maybe another time...

[b]Audio Interface[/b]

Very simplistically, this is the box that you'll plug your bass into in order to record onto your computer. I managed to get myself a Native Instruments Guitar Rig Session which came with Guitar Rig 4 LE and I use this for everything. Sadly, they're discontinued which is a shame because for £80, you had the guts of what you needed. It even came with Cubase LE!

Anyway, M-Audio offer some cheap routes into this although there are others out there.

M-Audio Fast Track USB looks like their entry level one (around £46 from Thomann, £80 ish from DV247).

I'm struggling to recommend any here as I've only used my Guitar Rig Session (which isn't available) so I'll leave space for others' suggestions. I do know that you should ideally go for one that records at 24bit/96khz rather than 16bit/44khz. Best to read the specs closely before buying.

[b]DAW (the software that lets you record and arrange stuff)[/b]

This is easy. If you're just dipping your toe in the water, or even if you want to do pro stuff then I can heartily recommend Reaper ([url="http://www.reaper.fm/"]http://www.reaper.fm[/url]). Their free trial never expires but a licence is only $60 which is a bargain for what you get. Plus we should all support a company that doesn't believe in DRM. Check it out, it'll do pretty much anything you want it to.

If you have a Mac, then chances are you'll have GarageBand installed. Give it a go, the learning curve is tiny and you can easily upgrade to Logic Pro which is now in the Mac App Store for a bargain (relatively!) £140. This is basically Logic Pro for a Logic Express price. Of course, Reaper is available for Mac as well as PC so you can give either a go.

[b]Guitar Amp Software[/b]

Reaper and GarageBand both have amp modelling plugins which should be enough to give them a bash. There are more free ones available though.

As I've said, I use Guitar Rig 4LE and really like it. Native Instruments do a cut down free version but sadly it doesn't come with a bass amp so this is really for guitary stuff only. [url="http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/guitar-rig-5-player/"]http://www.native-in...r-rig-5-player/[/url]

All is not lost though...

For bass, check out Amplitube Free which is basically the full Amplitube amp software with a few free amps, cabs and effects that allows you to buy amps, cabs etc. individually. The bass amp is enough to get you started. [url="http://www.ikmultimedia.com/amplitubefree/features/"]http://www.ikmultime...efree/features/[/url]

FreeAmp 3 will get you started too: [url="http://rekkerd.org/fretted-synth/"]http://rekkerd.org/fretted-synth/[/url]

[b]Virtual Instruments[/b]

[indent=1][b]The paid-for stuff[/b][/indent]

A decent virtual drummer will be a great help. I use EZDrummer ([url="http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=7"]http://www.toontrack...ucts.asp?item=7[/url] which is around £70-80. Do a bit of research and look for deals, either cheaper prices or bundles that include extra kits. It's simple to use, add it as an effect in your DAW, select a drum kit, choose some of the midi drum loops and drag them into your DAW and arrange them. Simples.

BFD Eco ([url="http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=103"]http://www.fxpansion...ex.php?page=103[/url]) is another one that's recommended although I've never used it. It's around £60-70 and I believe it works in a very similar way to EZDrummer.

There are others too, Steven Slate Drums for example. Both of the ones I mentioned above have upgrade paths to their bigger-brother versions (Superior Drummer and BFD2).

You might want to use other instruments too so I'll recommend some stuff in the next section.

[indent=1][b]The free stuff to help get you started[/b][/indent]

Before you buy anything, check out the free virtual instruments you can get.

First off are the Native Instruments players: [url="http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/?category=1339"]http://www.native-in.../?category=1339[/url]

I've already mentioned the free Guitar Rig 5 player but grab the Kontakt player for some virtual instruments and the Reaktor Player for a synth. That should get you started and let you add something different to your music.

Also grab SampleTank Free (which is a bunch of virtual instruments like the ones in Kontakt): [url="http://ikmultimedia.com/sampletankfree/features/"]http://ikmultimedia....kfree/features/[/url].

Finally, the third one that I know of is Independence Free: [url="http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=842"]http://www.yellowtoo...ndex.php?id=842[/url]

These are some quite hefty downloads (several GB each) so watch out if you're on limited downloads with your ISP.

Also check out [url="http://www.kvraudio.com/"]http://www.kvraudio.com/[/url] as they have a good list of free plugins and instruments.

[b]Midi controller[/b]

Finally, even though you can record say, a virtual piano using your computer's keyboard, it's much easier to do so with a midi controller keyboard. I use an M-Audio KeyRig 49 (now replaced with newer models). I'd recommend you pay a little extra to get a 49 key (or more) keyboard as you'll definitely appreciate the extra octaves on them. You can 25 key keyboard fairly cheaply. The Akai LPK25 is around £40 and comes recommended (I've not used one myself though).

I don't know much about these, but it looks like some of the M-Audio KeyStudio keyboards have built-in audio interfaces too. Could be a bargain or could be a waste of time, I don't know. It really depends on how much (if any) they've had to compromise by combining the two. Looks like they go for £80-£120 or so.

[b]Finally[/b]

That's it for now although I hope this mini-guide will grow as people add in their own suggestions. I've not mentioned mics or reference monitors or headphones and that's mainly because I wanted this to be a guide to getting set up cheaply, just to make the “plunge” easier as really, it's not much of a plunge even if you think you can't write songs. Trust me, you can Check this out if you don't believe me: [url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18034617"]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18034617[/url].

Oh, and grab yourself a free Soundcloud account to upload your music to: [url="http://www.soundcloud.com/"]http://www.soundcloud.com/[/url] and add your stuff to the Basschat Group on there: [url="http://soundcloud.com/groups/basschat"]http://soundcloud.com/groups/basschat[/url]. And of course, ask our opinions on your music - there's a sticky about the Basschat Soundcloud group here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/156658-basschatters-soundcloud-accounts"]http://basschat.co.u...dcloud-accounts[/url]/ where you can post a link to your Soundcloud page, find all of our pages and generally chat about it.

I'll leave you with the words of advice that got me started in recording: "Remember, only YOU have to listen to what you've recorded so what's there to lose?".

[b]*Update* Recording live[/b]

Check out this thread, it looks like it's shaping up to be a good one: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176980-recording-equipment-on-budget/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/176980-recording-equipment-on-budget/[/url]

Hi everyone,

I'm having trouble finding a cover for my Ashdown 220 Touring 1x12 combo. A few places do them for the 330 and 550 but even Ashdown don't do one for the 220. I'm sure I could get one custom made for it so if anyone has any recommendations that would be great.

Ideally it should be waterproof as my main concern is getting it wet moving it to and from the car. It shouldn't get chucked around so I'm not looking at a hard case or flight case (in fact, I saw one flight case that cost 2/3rds of the cost of the combo!) but a padded cover should do. I'd say that waterproof is more important than padding for me. At home it will act as a dust cover and slight scratch resistance but on the move it'll be a rain cover mainly. £30-40 would be an ideal cost but that's just a ballpark so if they cost more then so be it.

Cheers!

Cheers for the tip. I looked into it and EZdrummer and my Native Instruments software aren't supported