Bilbo

Now you are into metal so you [i]have[/i] matured!!!

Only kidding - I was in a metal band for 3 years (part of the NWOBHM in the early 1980s)

GRRRR!!

'I have been gigging without hard cases for over 20 years and not so much as a scratch - I guess taking care of your instrument is as much a state of mind as it is a single purchase.'

Driving so fast that you roll your car is not what I would call taking care of [i]yourself[/i] never mind your instrument!! Hard cases are overrated! I have one for each bass and guitar I have. I use them for guitars (acoustic and semi-acoustic) because they ARE fragile but the bass is not going to get damaged unless I accidently leave it under the wheels of my car. As I always check the contents of the vehicle before I drive off, this is unlikely....

Have clocked those Overwater bags on the net. Expensive but they look like exactly what I am looking for. And only 35 miles away in Witham!!

Ref: hard cases - too heavy, too cumbersome and not very practical. I have been gigging without hard cases for over 20 years and not so much as a scratch - I guess taking care of your instrument is as much a state of mind as it is a single purchase.

A word of caution.

You are in the position you are in because you have cut corners - no shame in that. We all did. If you want to start taking your playing to the next level, you really need to take things slowly and systematically. You will need to learn major, minor, melodic minor, diminished and augmented scales in all keys (that's 60 scales). You will then need to learn them all in their relative modes (thats 7x60 scales = 420 scales). You should then play them in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths, sevenths and octaves - that's 420 x 6 = 2,520.

Then learn chord theory - triads, four note chords extensions etc. Then you can start to play....

Ha, ha - that freaked you out, didn't it!!

The truth is, they all interelate and each piece of information you learn will make another piece more understandable. You can make astonishingly beautiful music with only a small percentage of this (most music forms don't use melodic minor, diminished or augmented scales at all, for instance). The secret is simply to take your time and learn things properly before you move on.

There are hundreds of books out there but a teacher may help you get an handle on stuff if you straggle with the details. My advice is simply take your time and do it properly - you will be a student for life. Don't waste a moment.

You probably already know whay it all SOUNDS like, David, just don't know the jargon. It all sounds so clever but its really only about what you hear and not what you say/write. It's just an organic process: you listen, process (using your knowledge etc) decide your options and act - all in real time. It's exactly what you do when you have a conversation, the language (i.e. music not speech) is just different. What all the practicing does is to speed up the process so you can do it in real time and not have to think for so long that you miss the moment. I guess the comparison would be with having a conversation about a subject you understand. You don't need to think about the subject, you just respond. Jazz is the same, if you understand all the scales, chords, concepts, you just react in real time. The deeper your understanding of the subject (jazz), the better your responses.

Its the best feeling in the world when you get it right.

I agree that, with a jazz walking line, you need to keep a picture of the overall contour of the line but there are a huge number of additional factors to consider in terms of your overall contribution to the ensemble performance. You lines need to react to, support and stimulate lines being performed by the soloist and the other ensemble members. If his or her line goes up, you could go up with it, or go down. You could also pedal on the root, reharmonise with a third, a fifth, a sixth or even ninth. You could play straight time, a rhythmically independent ostinato that greats tension and holds it until a release or even stop altogether. You could move out of a walk and into a funk or latin groove, you could evolve your lines into a Bach like counterpoint or a totally idependent melodic idea. The limitations are huge but so is the potential.

No such thing as a wrong note, just a poor choice. It's all about intent. If you are bluffing, you will be spotted a mile off.

I lived in Farnham for 7 years ('94 - 2001). Used to gig all round Surrey and Hants. Mostly jazz so I doubt our paths have crossed.

Welcome to Basschat.

Gamlin's is such a great shop (I bought a GK112MB combo there (the one that was nicked) and an Admaus six string there is the past - tried my first 5-string Wal there as well - didn't have the money then!). Happy days! I recall a friend bought a Peavy Palladium there as well, nice starter bass. Jon Caulfield, the Cardiff bass teacher, used to work there too.

Gear heaven!

[quote name='mybass' post='82457' date='Nov 1 2007, 07:08 PM']Yes, he is a great player. I took lessons off him many years ago and he was terrific. He used to play a six string Fender too, the almost guitar sized bass that is, with Barbara Thompson's "Paraphenalia" many moons ago and I think he was once in "Soft machine".[/quote]

Correct- he was (is?) also with the BBC big band. He did a dep for me once, years ago, when I had a gig with Jim Mullen. He was a real gentleman (just don't mention Robert Palmer to him).

I have a slight downer on insurance for reasons I will explain.

If you add all the insurance you pay (house contents, buildings, car, pets, musical instruments, extended cover on goods purchased, utilities repairs etc), it can come in at hundreds of pounds a month (mine is well over 20% of my nett income ). If you put that away every month over the lifetime of insuring instead of giving it to insurance companies, you would almost inevitably come in £1,000s in the black.

Now, I know of several musicians who have sought to claim on their insurance and have been frustrated by dubious 'rules' - one was refused a claim because, despite having left her stuff at home behind locked doors, she was 'not insured' (despite the company taking her money) because she didn't have the right locks fitted to her doors. They didn't tell her this when she took out the insurance. I know several musical instrument insurers that cover everything except the gear being stolen when it is unattended - i.e at the only time it will be stolen. In a nutshell, if we didn't pay insurance but saved the money instead - loads more gear!!

I know this argument doesn't hold up to close inspection but I think the insurance industry makes a LOT of money on the basis of what might but rarely ever happens.

I lost an SWR cab and a GK MB112 combo from a car once (someone was in it - I'm not that stupid) and was gutted but, if I had paid instrument insurance for the 28 years I have been playing, I would have bought that gear at least 5 times over. I still have no insurance on my gear - (over and above MU insurance) - its just not a good use of money. I am just VERY careful about how I move it around.

You can't develop convincing walking lines in jazz for any length of time unless you [i]really[/i] know theory. You can't bluff it... I guess you can get away with a superficial knowledge in many genres but building a walking bassline that is properly integrated is a life's work. Every time you play a tune you are starting with a clean slate and need to find increasingly creative ways of propelling the groove using quarter notes and variations thereof. I've been playing walking bass lines all night for 24 yearsand I nail it about three times a year!

It really seperates the grown ups from the little people!

I need to replace the bag I carry my bass in and am looking for a top notch gig bag to carry a Wal 4 string. I want something that is good quality, sturdy, protects the bass, has shoulder straps and a handle that aren't gonna snap in the first three weeks of use (like the last two I have had). I have seen some on the net but would prefer some recommendations because they are all sOOOO perfect.....

Anyone got the gig bag to die for?

I seem to see them all the time in Gamlins, Cardiff (not that that's any help to you...) but I can't find 'em online at all

You a Cardiff boy, QOTD (or a girl??)? Actually, I just went onto your profile and it says Cwmbran - guess where I am from originally - the Valley of the Crow (Llanyravon). Croesy Comp 1974 -1980! I left there in 1987 - that'll be before you were born!

I think there is a point to be made here -

I have an Eden Metro and love it - it is versatile (jazz, funk, lating, rock), the eq is fantastic, it is loud enough for anything I have asked of it (if it had to be louder than I have it, there would be a full rig/PA). People I play with compliment me on the sound etc. It's a winner every time.

But its heavy.

This matters when I put it in the car and when I take it out. It has wheels so I push it everywhere else. THis is a problem when we have kerbs, steps, grass or gravel to contend with but this is usually resolved with the help of a colleague/another muso. In a nutshell, its not THAT big a deal.

I could, of course, get a smaller combo. Lots of jazzers talk about the GK combos etc but I have had one of them (I also have an SWR Electric Blue head and a seperate cab ) and, whilst they are 'adequate', they don't really deliver satisfactorily over all frequenceies and there is no real bottom end. You'd get away with it in a trio but not with a big bnad or a rock/funk/latin outfit.

My point is, we are in the business of sound and should NEVER compromise on the tools we need to make those sounds as good as possible. If anyone knows of a combo that sounds as good as the Metro but is a quarter of the weight, then let me know. I haven't met it yet! To compromise your sound just for an easy ride is a cop out and, in my view, indefensible (disabilities excluded). I know loads of musos who turn up at gigs with second rate gear and, what do you kjnow, they sounds second rate.

Get a Metro and a sack trolley!

Mine broke last night. After 20 years holding my fretless Wal, the bloody strap has broken (no damage to the bass, tho').

I think a new guitar strap is like a new leather jacket - too, well, 'new'!!

Pretty much - its a resistance thing. The number of ohms refers to the level of resistance.The more ohms equals the more resistance. If your cab is 8 ohm, the amp needs to work twice as hard to power it than if is 4 ohms. Its not as simple as that, tho, because connecting speakers in parallel or unison effects the resistance (ie 2x 8 ohms in series is 16 ohm while 2x8 ohms in parallel is 4 ohms). In fact, your amp is not losing power at all, it is just using it to do more work.

Go to www.bassbacke.de/hints/bass/cabproperties.htm for a fuller explanation.

Go to www.waynejohnsononline.com and look for audio tracks of Arrowhead, Grasshopper and Villagers. Great early examples but the cds are worth it if you like the tasters. I have all of them on cd or vinyl.

I struggle to see how you can progress without it.

If you learn the scales (as scales then in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths and sevenths) you can pretty much play anything. You can also HEAR stuff better so your lines open up a LOT. The 'play by instinct' concept is a dead end!

Can't get there but wish I could. Flim has been a fave since way back. Have you heard his early stuff with Wayne Johnson? Stunning.

Every venue will have a PA? You clearly move in different circles to me. I NEVER see a PA provided!!

I am an 80 gigs a year man. The answer is several bands and a bag of freelance work! Learn to read so you get those gigs. Do every gig you can in every genre. Be professional (turn up on time, sober, dressed as per instruction, ready to play) and NAIL that groove!

You'll gig forever!

Neil Murray did some pretty useful stuff with seminal jazz rock legends National Health and some other great jazz rock with Colloseum II.

Some less obscure but rarely mentioned bass players on this forum:

Jimmy Johnson - s string bass innovator - was playing an Alembic 5-string in 1976. Johnson can be heard with a very diverse range of artists, including Allan Holdsworth, Michael Landau, James Taylor, Rod Stewart and Ray Charles, as well as his own work with Flim & the BB's. Flim is at his best on three Wayne (no relation) Johnson LPs 'Arrowhead', 'Grasshopper' and 'Everybody Is Painintng Pictures'.

Jeff Andrews - Mike Stern (before Lincoln Goines). Great grooves and interesting lines.

Zev Katz - great bass with Bob Mintzer Big Band

+ 1 for Victor Bailey

Arthur Maia - Gilberto Gil and 1,000 other Latin/Brazillian bands - tasty

Mike Mondesir - he deps for me sometimes. Great tone and groove.

Dudley Phillips - London based 6-string player - cool.

I may come back with more!

Say, Dood, where are you playing the big 7? I am in Felixstowe!

ARGH - many thanks for your erudite and considered response. Your points are noted and fully accepted.

I think the problem here is me. I used to be a bass nerd, buying Bass Player magazine every month, drooling over gear I couldn't afford, looking for faster and faster soloists (Jeff Berlin, Jaco, Patitucci, Haslip etc) etc but, as I have got older (I'm 44), I began to listen to the music a lot more and not the technique. As I got more and more involved in it, I began to even move away from the instruments themselves and started to listen to the music as pure expression. I began to realise that the instrument on which a piece is performed (and this is not genre specific) is important only in as much as the sound it creates defines the timbre of the notes played on it. If the music is good (subjective, I know), the instrument it is played on disappears!

An example would be 1960's big bands using the electric bass. The walking bass lines were often more of a 'ping, ping, ping' than a 'doom, doom, doom' and they stood out like a sore thumb; ugly and brash. The electric bass got a bad press in jazz for that and is still trying to live it down. As intruments and (probably more importantly, amps and speakers) have improved, this problem has all but disappeared and it is now perfectly credible for an electric bass to drive a big band in a sonically satisfying way. Now when I listen to a big band with an electric bass (I do occasionally play in one), the bass fits better in the overall sound and, consequently, disappears! I can now listen to the MUSIC the band are playing.

I guess that, where ERBs are concerned, I am still hearing the technology. That Manring track I mentioned, Selene, sounds like music, not just (just?) a bass player doing strange things with a bass. Am I making sense (I clearly lack ARGH's ability to express myself)?

I actually agree very much with what is being said about thios being early days for the ERB crowd. I actually think that the electric bass is still only now beginning to find a grudging acceptance within the 'serious' jazz fraternity (as opposed to the jazz/funk fusion circle). I only play electric bass but still lose gigs to double bass players with only rudimentary technique simply because they HAVE a double bass. If they were sh*t hot, I'd say fine but they ain't.

Anyway, to all you ERBists (I DO like that word), good luck, I wish you well and will be listening for many years to come. If any of you ever get your instruments over to Suffolk, I'll be in the front row.

I agree re: past loves - I have a HUGE soft spot for some of these guys and still look out for them and their products. Geddy Lee was a favorite for a long time but I have a wider perspective than I did then. I'd still like to buy him a drink tho'. Jeff Berlin still makes me smile with some of his soloing. I'd love to argue with him 1:1 (I like a lot if what he says but not all of it, not by a long way). Despite having moved on, an occasional dose of Jaco is a delight (recently saw some of that footage from Montreux - his grooves were unassailable!!)

These guys are still great. They just got knocked off the top spot.

Steve Swallow - no Victor Wooten but what a musician!