Billy Apple

Thanks. I'll have a look

Please help,

I've always had 15" speakers, and I'm looking to buy a proper stack. I always thought the bigger the speaker, the better for a bass. Now it seems the standard is for 410's, but a guitarist would use 412's, it makes no sense to me!? I want an amp head, with two sexy cabs. Who thinks they know what is the best configuration, and why?

cheers,

Billy

'Fairly important not to mention Orange though.' - How come? I've just read stuff on company websites. What's the truth behind the split?

[quote name='chris_b' post='1050843' date='Dec 7 2010, 06:32 PM']SK8's amp is for sale for £800 ish. But it's not for you if it's got the wrong tone.[/quote]

Thanks for the pointer, Chris, a 2k amp for 800 is sweet. But, I'm also after cabs, and hoping to score a deal on the whole package, with warranty.

[quote name='chris_b' post='1050818' date='Dec 7 2010, 06:13 PM']What about SK8's 200 watt Hiwatt?[/quote]

I played a Hiwatt, and found it much too clean for my tastes, plus the 200 head is retailing for near 2k, very pricey.

Thanks for all the posts, much appreciated. Anyone with any experience with Matamp's after sales service?

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1050104' date='Dec 7 2010, 12:38 AM']Don't forget matamp are custom ordered, so you could try one that sounds totally different to another.
Not got any experience other than with cabs, they are both ridiculously loud and heavy!!!! Who needs this whipping lightweight stuff anyway.

Orange in a nutshell (for me) is a one trick pony, but what a trick!![/quote]

cheers,

'one trick pony, but what a trick!!' Nice quote, I don't see that as a down side, I enjoy straightforward simplicity, But the exclusivity of Matamp is not lost on me either

[quote name='Anders' post='1050067' date='Dec 6 2010, 11:46 PM']Try them out yourself.There is no better way for you to find out.
You might even find out you like something else even better.The Matampfactory in Huddersfield isn't insanely far away and i'm sure there's got to be a store nearby selling Orange.[/quote]

I know, you are right. I've tried out Orange at GAK in Brighton, and love them, I've yet to try Matamp, but their London dealer is not too far from me, so soon as. I realise that its all down to me, but with it involving a not inconsiderable amount of money, its good to get as much ammo as you can

[quote name='Musicman20' post='525995' date='Jun 27 2009, 02:19 PM']Tested Setup:


Orange AD200b Mk3

Orange OBC 115

Orange OBC 410 (low volume) - borrowed an Ampeg 410E for the gig.

MIJ Fender Precision Bass 60s reissue, roundwounds, OBBM Cables.


After spending some time with this amplifier, and not to forget the matching cabinets, I feel it is now time to make a review of this equipment from a normal bassist’s point of view. I do not have any type of in depth knowledge of the capabilities and internal workings of these products, and to be quite honest I’m glad I don’t. I have researched a little into how to use a tube amp correctly, but that’s as far as I go. I will leave the rest to the manufacturers. You can quote all you like from the science/physics point of view, but if it sounds average, what’s the point?! Sometimes, it all comes down to sound. My career is busy enough, so I want to trust that everything is right for me.


I wanted something that didn’t need any customisation, changes, upgrades, messing about, etc etc. I wanted a good amp straight from the manufacturers. No pedals, no tube change, no internal mods.

My old setup lasted me for a long time. I used to own a Trace Elliot GP12 400 SMX Amp (damn good!) and awful Peavey cabs. I used the Trace a fair amount, and at the time it was bought, it was almost top of the range. The cabs did get some use, but I never took them to University, so I was often borrowing/using backline from other bands etc. I was lucky enough to test some very good cabinets, and again some very poor cabinets, (even worse than the Peaveys!). So, the Peaveys were sold (thankfully).

When I started to take Bass seriously again, I wanted an amp that was TOTALLY different. The Trace was loud, and crisp, and very clear. Sometimes, I felt there was not enough actual bass, with too much emphasis on treble, but I’ve felt this with a fair amount of solid state amps. I do however really like the pre-Gibson textbook Trace sound. They have a great top end, but when it comes down to it the low end isn’t a punch like I want. I am surprised with the LM3 I now own as it is incredible, and does have nice warmth to it. So, the heavy old Trace went for the new lightweight MB Little Mark 3. I do miss it…as when I recorded with it cranked….wow….thunder!

I nearly went all Ampeg. Nearly…..

I ended up buying an Ampeg 810E (which is now going next weekend) and I haven’t used it. It is too big, and not really what I thought it would be.! I’m very glad I did not buy an Ampeg amp. The Ampeg ‘growl’ may be excellent from a cranked vintage Classic, but from the VR and indeed the newer CL, I just wasn’t impressed. The SVT-3 Pro could not keep up with my Trace, so that was a no. I even tested a 90s 3-Pro (I think it was Pro), and I was unimpressed. It had no volume at 8ohms at all. The guy changed the gain to add some grit…but it did very little. But…they have their fans. Their current prices are far too high.


So, I cancelled my order for a new Ampeg CL, (a few days after I tested one – much to the annoyance of the LOUD reps in the UK who I was ordering from). Something just told me to wait it out. I then tested the very mighty Orange stack. This setup had been on the shop floor for about 5 days. It wasn’t there when I tested the Ampeg a week earlier. My drummer came with me, and immediately spotted it. ‘Test it, nowwww!’ he said. And so I did. This amp is the best tube amplifier I have EVER heard. I was sold within seconds. And that is exactly what an amp should do…make you want it. Not….’oh it sounds ok, it needs some tweaking’. If it needs tweaking, don’t buy it. I bought the amp and the 4x10. The shop had not looked after the 1x15, and had let it get scuffed/marked etc, so I went to my local shop to get a brand new one.


AD200b Mk3 – So, the amp itself is incredibly simple. Orange state this is why is sounds so unique. 3 passive controls, treble, middle, bass. One master volume, one gain. That’s your lot. My old Trace had a massive 12 band eq, pre-shapes, etc etc. I don’t like lots of controls. It detracts from what your bass and amp should sound like. It’s probably why I also liked the Little Mark 3 enough to go straight ahead and buy one. The amp is 200W tube….Orange watts….so don’t be fooled. If you need more than 200W Tube, then you have hearing problems. This could easily compete with solid state 500-600W. The Trace was 400W, and this amp just beats it hands down. Weight wise, it is nowhere near the weight of an Ampeg CL…which is good. It’s probably the same as the Trace I used to own, but a little taller, not as much depth by far. This is now flightcased, which is a necessity! There are handles on the flightcase, but once in the case it weighs a lot!


OBC 410 – The Orange cabs usually have 50:50 split. A lot of people have never tested them, and assume they aren’t for them. Then again some people love their tone. They are built for a vintage tube tone. They do a good job with a lightweight head too, I had a little test. They are great for rock/warm chunky P bass J Bass, but despite the solid states sounding good, tube is where they shine. The horn is set already, and it works well with the tube overdrive. It does not sound harsh, just adds a nice sparkle. The 410 pushes a LOT of air. It is constructed incredibly well, and feels very strong. Everything has been manufactured with a lot of attention to detail. The tone is perfect for me and it has a great vintage feel to it, chunky, warm, nice clarity, aggressive. The only drawback is the weight/bulk of the cab. It weighs roughly the same an Ampeg 410E…..but it sounds so much louder. I have yet to gig this, but even at low volume I love it.


OBC115 – This cab surprised me. This contains an Eminence Kappalite 15 (the part number escape me) and is probably why the cab is so damn good. Side porting, quite compact for an Orange cab, not TOO heavy, but not light. The speaker throws out so much it blew me away. For the first time since I have owned the setup, I took the amp and this one cab to a loud gig. This cab pushes so much low end and grit it amazed me. My guitarists both use tube Marshall 60W heads (cranked FULL), with 4x12 cabs….so I have those two guys and a drummer to compete with. This head/1x15 cab was audible even when the amp was only on 2.5 notches out of 10 (id say about 9 o’clock). I have my gain on around 2/3rds (2 o’clock). So, the amp isn’t even getting warmed up! And we are talking no PA support apart from for the drums. Later, when we had a short break, my friend thought it would be fun to hook up his 8 ohm Ampeg 410E cab to the setup, so I effectively had a full stack. Jees….now this was loud. I had to turn down. My guitarist could feel the bass from 4 metres away. If I had used my OBC410 with the 115 it would have been overkill. So…hands down, this cabinet really performs well, and punches its way through the mix. It has a great low end, but the high freq are also very audible and sweet even though it has no horn. Thanks to Tom Bowlus and his 1x15 tests, as they swayed to buying this cab as well as the 4x10.


So…that’s a real test. A few guys told me 200W tube is a bare minimum for bass amps. Let me just say I disagree! I don’t care for 1000W digital amps. I don’t see the point. How did loud bands back in the 60s/70s/80s play? They used 30/50w guitar amps and 100/200/300w bass amps (all tube)? Because with tube, that’s enough. There is clearly a HUGE difference between a real tube amp and modern solid state amps. I like them both, but every solid state I have tried just does not have the punch this Orange has. Everyone seems to say ‘oh well, my amp is much lighter, and yes it doesn’t sound as good but its less hassle’. If it doesn’t sound as good, do what I did, and own both ends of the spectrum, so you can have the lightweight for times when space/time is tight, and the tube for recording, for bigger gigs etc. A lot of people said I should have opted for the Mesa 400+, and Im glad I didn’t. Not only does it look damn boring, but I’d NEVER use 400W Tube. Im not in Metallica. Plus I would have wanted a new one. And I would have barely got a growl with that much volume on tap. I know plenty of bands that use the AD200b in big professional venues, and they have had no issues. The PA is there to support you and push the sound/vocals/etc…so if you are playing a large gig, it should be mic’d up anyway. And, if Im honest, if I did want 400W in one head, I would have got a Hiwatt.


Probably the best part of testing it all was the drummers face when he heard the first few notes when I really cranked the gain, but kept the master fairly low (so it was gritty and dirty but not stupid volume). This is with stock tubes. The grit/overdrive/dirt from this amp is amazing. The whole band loved the natural dirty tone the amp was kicking out. We are talking Queens of the Stone Age/Converge/Weezer ‘Pinkerton’ bass tone but MORE….more clarity. Fuzzy, warm, gritty, punchy, but great clarity.


So, as much as Matamp guys probably don’t like Orange gear, I love this amp/setup. If you want warmth/grit/tube tone, in an uber cool looking package and you are still fine with normal weight gear, then try one quick! Plus, and let me add, their customer service is second to none. You are buying from a UK manufacturer, thus supporting our industry, and also taking a weight off your mind if anything needs checking on it. I want a Matamp head as well now….but, that’s a few years away. I also want the Orange 8x10, but that’s just far too big/heavy. I have heard the Aguilar 8x10 with this amp….and the punch combined with the Aguilar DB warmth was amazing.


Suitability?! Well, let me see. It does finger/pick excellently. It’s great for rock/punk/metal/warm funk/hardcore/blues and would also fit in well with modern/classic indie when you want the bass to take some limelight. With a pick…when you dig in and hit the e (or drop d in some parts of the set) it sounds awesome. Its aggressive and punchy. With your fingers, it is warm, fluid, syrupy (a strange word) and great for the P bass thud. This amp is not like the modern ‘quick response’ lightweight heads, so don’t expect it to be right for people who want to be crystal clear and precise. I tried some slap, and it sounds like slap should! The 15 sounded pretty damn good for slap. I haven’t tried slapping on the 4x10 yet. Overall, it is more for vintage players. I would imagine it suits classic basses like Stingray/P Bass/J Bass/Grabber/Thunderbird more than anything.

Next weekend, I should own Aguilar 2 x DB212s and I am trading in the Ampeg 810E. I cannot wait to try the Orange and the LM3 with the Aguilars. I can easily imagine even just 1 2x12 can easily cut at a gig. Plus….how good will Chocolate Thunder look with the Orange amp?! Chocolate Orange anyone?! Lets face it, when you spend a lot, an instrument/amps aesthestics are very important. Maybe that’s just me, I’m vain.

So…I feel very lucky to own all this nice gear. Ive worked my ass off saving for it, and ive sold everything that wasn’t right for me. Ive sacrificed holidays and cut down my nights out to get the money. HOPEFULLY, that is amp/cab gas over for at least a year. I MAY be tempted with a small Berg/Schroeder setup….but to be fair, I probably don’t need it. I might even try the new Orange SP212 and a 1000W Bass Terror early next yr


Sorry for the essay, thanks for reading.[/quote]

Hey, quality review, found it on my travels, after your post on my thread. GAK are doing what seems like a good deal on this set up, and it's very tempting, but along came Matamp. Th Orange cabs seem very solid, I'm wondering how Matamp's cabs match up. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with how things look

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1049992' date='Dec 6 2010, 10:53 PM']The AD200b is hand made in the UK, as are most of the cabinets they offer. If you like the tone of the Orange, go for it. If you aren't sure, check Matamp for sure!

Most of the actual parts to virtually all amps are from overseas.

Regarding mixing speakers, I personally don't care...the 4x10 sounds fantastic with the 1x15 and both work well on their own for different flavours. They sound, IMO, much better than the Ampeg 810E I used to own.

It's all down to personal taste.[/quote]

Thanks,

I don't fancy anything the size of an 810, or even a 610. Looking for something that can be split down, but turned into a bit of a beast

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1049952' date='Dec 6 2010, 10:17 PM']Matamp and Orange aren't really comparable any more. Matamp are hand made to order, Orange are Chinese imports. Phone Matamp and tell them what you want and they will make it to suit. Also, don't mix a 4x10 and a 1x15, just get two 4x10s or two 1x15s, mixing gives worst of both worlds.

[/quote]


Thanks,

I have been speaking to Matamp. I thought that Orange valve amps were UK built, is this not the case? What are your thoughts on 4x12's compared to 4x10s?

Hello everyone,

Would appreciate some help. Looking to treat myself to a new valve rig, after many years of SS combos. After much research myself I cant make my mind up between the Orange AD200 or the Matamp GT200, with 1x15 and 4x10 cabs (maybe two 4x12?). Love to hear from owners of either of these. All opinions welcome, it all goes in the pot.

cheers,

Billy