doczoc Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 (edited) Firstly a little background info... I've been a long time admirer of the bass and have recently decided to take up lessons. I've recently aquired a Peavey Foundation bass (cheap off a mate), which feels nice and paid to have it set up. The guy put some Ernie Ball Slinky bass strings on it and was very complimantary about how well it played! I have a Trace Elliot BLX80 (which was part of the deal both for £120), which seems to buzz like hell, and sound a bit (a lot) brash - not sure it'd be any good for the sound I'm after! I know I'm at the beginning of my journey (and it may seem an audacious question) but how would I get an approximation of the bass sound in Take Yo' Praise! I know a hell of a lot of it will be down to the bass players skill, and I'm years off that, but could anyone give me some pointers? I really love that old finger style type funk sound, (not that keen on slapping though) - what amps give that sort of sound? I've read people talking about 'that ashdown sound' or 'that ampheg sound' in reviews but I have no iea what these sound like and whether they are appropriatte to what I am looking for. I know I should go to a shop and test a few but I'd feel a goon trying out amps with my very limited ability and don't think my ear is keen enough yet to be able to zone into what I really want! I'm sorry ifthis is a lame question, or it sounds like I'm trying to run before I walk but if I could get headstart in terms of understanding the direction I need to go in I'm sure that would motivate me all the more. Any advice greatfully received. Thanks for reading! Dave EDIT - for the many typos LOL Edited October 12, 2007 by doczoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Oh, that's a great tone and a great track! Similar to motown but a little darker and duller. A flatwound strung bass with a pickup near the neck (Precision preferably) played through a 15 would be a great start and not necessarily expensive. In the meantime!!: roll off the treble, turn up the bass, finger pick/thumb close to the neck or over the neck pup and stick a piece of foam under the strings next to the bridge. You may want to try one of these: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_vtone_bass_bdi21_analog_modeling_preamp.htm"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_vtone_b...ling_preamp.htm[/url] --- If you've got some monies to spend: Flats, 15 extension cab or replace the combo. If you've got lots of monies to spend: A big juicy valve powered amp and a nice Precision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 No probs with the typos, it's those that cant be bothered.................. Not really familiar with your bass or amp but I do know this; to paraphrase one of the greatest - the funk is in the fingers. You can spend a fortune and buy the gear of your favourite player and still not sound a bit like them. As the Paul has already suggested - flats and judicious use of the tone controls will get you started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doczoc Posted October 13, 2007 Author Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) Thanks Paul thats a great answer, much appreciated! I'll check out the V-Tone before trading in the trace elliot (it has mixed reviews - Harmony Central reviewers seem to like it but other forums say don't touch it with a barge pole). I don't have lots of monies to spend but I do believe in the notion that you get what you pay for. I'm going to stick with the Peavey Foundation because it's raved about all over the net and I love the slender neck for my stubby fingered hands LOL If anything I'll look into modding it, rather than replacing it (if that works out more cost effective!). I'm slightly confused by your comment about choosing a bass with pickups close to the neck and then recommendeinga Precision, looking at images of it the pickups are near the bridge, am I missing something? My Peavey has one near the bridge then another about two thirds the distance from the bridge to the neck. My main beef with the Trace Elliot is that its hisses a lot at low level but if I turn it up loud enough to mask the hiss it rattles the house! It also buzzes when I'm playing the E string. This might be a stupid question but is there a head unit I could buy with a headphone socket? I have great pair of Sehhheiser monitoring headphones which would not colour the sound at all so I'm thinking if I just buy an amp I can use the phones and have a decent piece of gear for the future. Alternatively I was thinking about getting one of those tiny practise amps like a pocket rockit, or maybe something like an ashdown after eight or Orange CR20B, I want something that sounds good at low levels without hissing! I know there's a trade off between power and tone but that would be my ideal wish list. Can you eloborate on the foam tip for me Paul? Whats does that do, what should I stick it with? I ordered some La Bella medium gauge flatwounds, James Jamerson signature, think they might be a little stiff for a beginner but probabably good in the long run. I'm hoping these give me that dark thick tone I crave. Completely agree with you Ferret, I was worried that my post might look like I'm looking for 'funk in a can' I appreciette that bass mastery is the paramount requirement here, but I figure having appropriate gear, strings and set up is part of the formula too! Thanks again! Edit, again typos, I'm using a wireless keyboard and I think the batteries are going, keeps missing key presses! Edited October 13, 2007 by doczoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 Very few basses have pups near the neck. Gibson spring to mind. The purpose of having the foam under the strings near the bridge is damp the vibration and stop the strings ringing. Needs to be just the right thickness of foam so you may need to experiment. Lots of basses have had foam mutes over the years, Ricks, Musicman and of course the original Fenders had foam under the bridge cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted October 13, 2007 Share Posted October 13, 2007 (edited) [quote name='doczoc' post='73690' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:49 AM']Thanks Paul thats a great answer, much appreciated! I'll check out the V-Tone before trading in the trace elliot (it has mixed reviews - Harmony Central reviewers seem to like it but other forums say don't touch it with a barge pole). I don't have lots of monies to spend but I do believe in the notion that you get what you pay for. I'm going to stick with the Peavey Foundation because it's raved about all over the net and I love the slender neck for my stubby fingered hands LOL If anything I'll look into modding it, rather than replacing it (if that works out more cost effective!). I'm slightly confused by your comment about choosing a bass with pickups close to the neck and then recommendeinga Precision, looking at images of it the pickups are near the bridge, am I missing something? My Peavey has one near the bridge then another about two thirds the distance from the bridge to the neck. My main beef with the Trace Elliot is that its hisses a lot at low level but if I turn it up loud enough to mask the hiss it rattles the house! It also buzzes when I'm playing the E string. This might be a stupid question but is there a head unit I could buy with a headphone socket? I have great pair of Sehhheiser monitoring headphones which would not colour the sound at all so I'm thinking if I just buy an amp I can use the phones and have a decent piece of gear for the future. Alternatively I was thinking about getting one of those tiny practise amps like a pocket rockit, or maybe something like an ashdown after eight or Orange CR20B, I want something that sounds good at low levels without hissing! I know there's a trade off between power and tone but that would be my ideal wish list. Can you eloborate on the foam tip for me Paul? Whats does that do, what should I stick it with? I ordered some La Bella medium gauge flatwounds, James Jamerson signature, think they might be a little stiff for a beginner but probabably good in the long run. I'm hoping these give me that dark thick tone I crave. Completely agree with you Ferret, I was worried that my post might look like I'm looking for 'funk in a can' I appreciette that bass mastery is the paramount requirement here, but I figure having appropriate gear, strings and set up is part of the formula too! Thanks again! Edit, again typos, I'm using a wireless keyboard and I think the batteries are going, keeps missing key presses![/quote] Those Peaveys are great! A revolution in starter instruments in my opinion. You're absolutely right about the Precision not really having a neck pickup - not so much as a Gibson EB0, Hofner or many of the other vintage semis. A beefy pickup in the Precision spot would suffice (which you've got) for getting a big warm vintage tone. This isn't always the case though, as MusicMan basses can be very warm also. If you don't like your Trace Elliot and you can afford to change it, change it. As mentioned, for the tone you're after a 15" speaker would be ideal (and often cheaper than other variations). There's no reason an amp should hiss, an amp may not be silent but it shouldn't bother you while practicing at any level. [quote name='doczoc' post='73690' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:49 AM']This might be a stupid question but is there a head unit I could buy with a headphone socket?[/quote] Yes, you can get heads and combos with headphone inputs. [url="http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=%28amp%2C+combo%2C+amplifier%2C+head%29+%28headphone%2C+headphones%2C+head+phones%29&sacat=58719%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=DT4+0NR&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&sabdlo=&sabdhi=&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp="]Here's a good ebay search[/url] - just filter by price and HC reviews and you're laughing. Put "15" in before the brackets and you'll (mostly) only get combos with a 15 in them. My best advise with the little practice amps is to try them out. This is often the biggest market for small music shops so you should have loads of choice. You can also filter ebay searches by distance and find one near to you. [quote name='doczoc' post='73690' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:49 AM']Can you eloborate on the foam tip for me Paul? Whats does that do, what should I stick it with? I ordered some La Bella medium gauge flatwounds, James Jamerson signature, think they might be a little stiff for a beginner but probabably good in the long run. I'm hoping these give me that dark thick tone I crave. Completely agree with you Ferret, I was worried that my post might look like I'm looking for 'funk in a can' I appreciette that bass mastery is the paramount requirement here, but I figure having appropriate gear, strings and set up is part of the formula too! Thanks again![/quote] +1 to Bassferret. The foam gives you that soft, short uprighty thud that so many motown fans melt over. You needn't stick it in, if it's the right size the strings will hold it in place. Those are some mighty strings you've ordered. Warning: they will feel very different. Expect you bass to go out of tune the further up the neck you go (intonation). Expect first time flatwound pain (larger surface area). Expect high tension. Expect unbeatable tone with patience. If you don't like them they'll have good resale value (are you in the UK?). Make sure you replace the strings one at a time or you'll likely get neck problems. Have a search on basschat for truss rod adjustment. You'd be pleasantly surprised how little you need to spend for a great tone (although it helps to have a 9" finger diameter and 20years of upright experience): Warm strings start from about £13, Behringer BDI 21 - under £20 used, [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tech-21-Sansamp-Landmark-120-15-Bass-Amp-Combo-preamp_W0QQitemZ330170595653QQihZ014QQcategoryZ58719QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]decent combo[/url] - possibly under £150 used, foam = free. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2533&hl=foam+bridge"]Foam mute thread[/url] I currently have a bit of stuck back padding on a piece of bubble wrap Edited October 13, 2007 by paul, the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doczoc Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 (edited) Thanks Ferretone t. thanks Paul, another indepth answer. I really appreciatte your help. I've had a play with the TE and actually got it sounding very pleasant, (at least to my ears) I set the equaliser settings flat and had a fiddle with the knobs on the bass and hey presto no hiss and no cabinet vibration, nice tone certainly good enough to practice. It's a little trebly but I can't get rid of this without it becoming mushy sounding. All in all I'm pleased with it now! I'm slightly concerned about your comments on putting flatwounds on, I didn't realise it would be so involved, I was just going to pop them on. I'll certainly look into that thread on truss rod adjustment- thanks for the heads up. Thanks also for the Ebay search, I'm off to have a bit of fun with that now! Cheers EDIT - stupidly I didn't realise the TE has a headphone socket, trouble is the tone sounds awful, it's not te headphones as they are really transparent and neutral. Just sound dead muddy and little like the tone from the cabinet. Edited October 14, 2007 by doczoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 You could try half rounds. Elites are pretty dull sounding. Does not help if you have already ordered mind. EQ on anything needs to be used judiciously. Always start from flat and just experiment. It you have an active bass you can plug your phones into that. Only get sound in one ear mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doczoc Posted October 14, 2007 Author Share Posted October 14, 2007 Thanks Ferret, I've tried the sponge trick and it's made a huge difference, it's really starting to thud now as opposed to twang. The G string was muted initially , but I just cut a bit out for that and it's got it's tone back, still not sure it's right yet, I'll keep trimming but I am starting to love the sound. I think I gave up too easily on the TE, but having played with it I find it very pleasing so I'm not that bothered about getting a different amp yet. I'll wait and see what I can get out of it using the flatwounds first. Should I get someone to fit the flatwonds for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 [quote name='doczoc' post='74149' date='Oct 14 2007, 02:18 PM']I'm slightly concerned about your comments on putting flatwounds on, I didn't realise it would be so involved, I was just going to pop them on. I'll certainly look into that thread on truss rod adjustment- thanks for the heads up.[/quote] Glad you're happy with your TE, the penny pinching definitely appeals to my nature.My GAS means that I can have all the angles covered when giving recommendations. I didn't mean to scare you about the flatwounds and you'll probably be fine - a little additional knowledge wouldn't go a miss though just incase anything goes banana shaped. A bass neck is basically a long thick bit of wood, a long thin bit of wood with a metal rod. Putting higher tension, heavier strings on the neck will unlikely go unnoticed. You should be fine stringing the bass. As mentioned, just make sure you replace one string at a time rather than taking all of one set off and then putting all of the new set on. Due to the size of the strings it will be a bit laborsome once you get onto the A and E but you should be OK. Due to the thickness you wont get many rounds on the A and E machine head so you might find yourself taking them off again and cutting them down. A good idea is to tune the strings as you add them to give the neck some time to get used to the strings - giving them a gentle upwards tug each time until they pretty much hold tune. Then do a back stitch type thing when you add additional strings. That's how I tune anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doczoc Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 [quote name='paul, the' post='74334' date='Oct 14 2007, 11:35 PM']Glad you're happy with your TE, the penny pinching definitely appeals to my nature.My GAS means that I can have all the angles covered when giving recommendations. I didn't mean to scare you about the flatwounds and you'll probably be fine - a little additional knowledge wouldn't go a miss though just incase anything goes banana shaped. A bass neck is basically a long thick bit of wood, a long thin bit of wood with a metal rod. Putting higher tension, heavier strings on the neck will unlikely go unnoticed. You should be fine stringing the bass. As mentioned, just make sure you replace one string at a time rather than taking all of one set off and then putting all of the new set on. Due to the size of the strings it will be a bit laborsome once you get onto the A and E but you should be OK. Due to the thickness you wont get many rounds on the A and E machine head so you might find yourself taking them off again and cutting them down. A good idea is to tune the strings as you add them to give the neck some time to get used to the strings - giving them a gentle upwards tug each time until they pretty much hold tune. Then do a back stitch type thing when you add additional strings. That's how I tune anyway.[/quote] Cheers Paul, should I start with replacing the G string down to E? Also sorry for being a noob but what's this GAS thing I've seen people use it on a number of threads, have no idea what it means LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowhand_mike Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Gear Aquisition Syndrome, in other words stuff you have seen that you really want to buy, you'll soon know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doczoc Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 AHHHHH I think I've always had that regardless of what I'm into LOL BTW given the lovely tone and bass playing of the above song, can anyone recommend songs in a similar vein to listen out for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 [quote name='doczoc' post='74782' date='Oct 15 2007, 08:39 PM']AHHHHH I think I've always had that regardless of what I'm into LOL BTW given the lovely tone and bass playing of the above song, can anyone recommend songs in a similar vein to listen out for?[/quote] No shame in asking about GAS, gotta find out sometime - well done for asking. Similar tone:- Motown and soul - there's literally so much. Early Gaye, early Stevie Wonder, Dusty in Memphis - tons. [quote name='doczoc' post='74402' date='Oct 15 2007, 07:44 AM']Cheers Paul, should I start with replacing the G string down to E?[/quote] A good idea methinks. paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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