Fake / Faux Guitar / 8 String Bass : 1 Octave Up Toneprint for TC Electronic Sub'N'Up / Sub'N'Up Mini

[Baloney Balderdash]

So I use my TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini for an effect somewhat similar to that of playing an 8 string bass, that is a bass with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings, and after a lot of experimenting, trial and error, I think I have succeeded at making a custom Toneprint that comes about as close to an authentic and natural sounding 1 octave up effect/tone as is possible by just using a simple basic polyphonic octaver and a minimum of EQ, without any more complex/advanced synthesizing happening, so though I would share it with you.

 

The main secret is applying a LPF set to just the right frequency to respectively the input signal to the octave/pitchifter engine and then again another LPF set at just the right frequency to the pitched signal output, both for the sake of improving tracking, which in terms indirectly means less unwanted odd digital artifacts, and for the sake of directly cutting out some digital artifacts, which usually primarily will be in the upper frequency spectrum, but if the two HPF are set just right without compromising the resulted tone of the pitched signal too much.

Mind it doesn't sound exactly like a guitar, pitching up your signal a whole octave with nothing additionally done to it other than EQ is always going to sound somewhat artificial, but close enough for it to quite decently work in a mix as a faux guitar (especially if you are going for an overdriven guitar) or faking an 8 string bass.

Also expect it to sound most realistic on the 2 highest strings and most artificial on the low E (and eventual low B) string.

 

 

 

 

So here we go (Faux Guitar/8 string bass custom Toneprint  for TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini/Sub'N'Up):


First load the "Deafult Poly" template, then edit it as follows :


1st tab (master levels/gain):
Row 1 : -100dB :-: -100dB :-: [Wet Level Oct Up] (-14dB seems to work best for me, trust me it'll sound louder than you'd think, mind drive and EQ boost) :-: 0dB
Row 2 : [Drive Gain Oct Up] (even if you want a clean octave up tone try and see how a bit of added gain works, 1dB gain seems to work best for me) :-: 0 :-: 0

2nd tab (equalizer for input signal fed to octave engine):
Row 1 : LoCut = 40Hz (if octave up signal is too weak on low E set to 35.5Hz instead, or for 5 or 6 string with low B set to 30Hz) :-: Input EQ1 Cut Order = 2 
Row 2 : HiCut = 3.55kHz :-: Input EQ2 Cut Order = 2

3rd tab (equalizer for 1 octave down output signal):
Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz :-: Sub EQ1 Cut Order = 2
Row 2 : [Bypass]

4th tab (equalizer for 2 octaves down output signal):
Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz :-: Sub 2 EQ1 Cut Order = 2
Row 2 : [Bypass]

5th tab (equalizer for 1 octave up output signal):
Row 1 : LoShlv = 4.50kHz :-: +2dB :-: [Oct Up EQ1 Slope] (9dB Slope seems to work best for me (steeper slope gives a slightly brighter octave tone))
Row 2 : HiCut = 5.60kHz :-: Oct Up EQ2 Cut Order = 2

6th tab (modulation on pitched signal):
No adjustments, that is Modulation: Enable = Off (though you might find  that experimenting with adding a very subtle chorus or even vibrato to the 1 Octave Up signal might possibly help mimicking the slight intonation/tuning difference between the bass and octave strings of a real 8 string bass even more realistically, but mind keep it very subtle)

7th tab (knob assignments): 
Sub/Sub 2 [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Drive Gain Up], and clear all eventual other assignments, set the range from 0dB to 8dB (0, 2, 4, 6, 8) )*
Dry [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Output Up EQ1 Slope], and clear all eventual other assignments, set range from 3dB to 12dB (3dB, 6dB, 9dB, 9dB, 12dB)
Up [knob assignment] : assign to [Octaver - Wet Level Up], and clear all eventual other assignments, set range from -22db to 0dB (-22, -16, -14, -12, 0)

 

)* If you got the regular big version of the Sub'N'Up pedal you might want to instead assign the "Sub 2" knob to control the Slope of Tab 5, Row 1, EQ, that is [Octaver - Output Up EQ1 Slope], otherwise in the above example assigned to the "Dry" output knob, and leave the "Dry" knob assignment to control [Octaver - Dry Level]

 

Save the toneprint under whichever name you'd like and then load/save it to the pedal.

 

 

You might get better results if you run a compressor right before the Sub'N'Up, otherwise keep the Sub'N'Up as the very first unit in your signal chain after the bass (except for an eventual tuner and/or buffer).
 

 

 

 

If you try this Toneprint out please post a reply in this thread, letting us know how it worked for you.

Other suggestion on how to achieve an as authentic and natural sounding 1 octave up faux guitar/8 string bass effect as possible is of course very welcome as well.

 

 

 

Also I should probably add:

The result might vary depending on the tone of your bass and how you otherwise have it EQ'ed, but for me at least this works exceptionally well, and sounds surprisingly natural/authentic/realistic.

Using roundwound strings and having a fairly bright zingy unaffected clean tone with a lot of bite and snap, as I do, I believe does help the 1 octave up signal to blend in better and thereby contributes to it sounding more natural and realistic.

Not having the 1 octave up signal dialed in too high in the mix (finding just the right balance) helps as well.

I personally have the 1 octave up signal dialed in a bit lower than it probably typically would be with a real 8 string bass.

 

Also note that if the primary purpose is to mimic a guitar it would probably be beneficial to split the signal and run two signal paths, one where only the 1 octave up signal gets processed, and a separate signal path for the "dry" bass signal, then eventually join them again, for instance via a Boss LS-2 or a dedicated mixer, whereas if the main purpose is to mimic an 8 string bass it would beneficial to run the joined signal through as many of the same tone shaping and otherwise applied effects as the "dry" bass signal (though just using the Sub'N'Up as is with the above explained custom Toneprint is absolutely capable at mimicking a passable second guitar decently without having to split the signal, just for optimal result when used as a faux separate guitar you should split the signal, to be able to process the 1 octave up signal further separately). 

 

 

Edited March 12 by Baloney Balderdash

[Homatron]

Thanks for posting this! I've just picked up a Sub'N'Up mini and was keen to try to emulate an 8 string bass sound. I wouldn't have known where to start without your efforts. 

 

I added a little more gain to the octave up, and set some subtle modulation (chorus) to come in at the upper range of the dry knob. I found that in the Android app, some parameters were snapping to values outside of what you describe, but overall I'm pleased with the outcome. As you mention, not adding too much of the upper octave gives best results and doesn't make the sound too "chimey".

 

I'm much more inclined to get tweaking other patches now, so thanks again for the crash course! I can see some late nights ahead.

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 02/05/2024 at 10:46, Homatron said:

Thanks for posting this! I've just picked up a Sub'N'Up mini and was keen to try to emulate an 8 string bass sound. I wouldn't have known where to start without your efforts. 

 

I added a little more gain to the octave up, and set some subtle modulation (chorus) to come in at the upper range of the dry knob. I found that in the Android app, some parameters were snapping to values outside of what you describe, but overall I'm pleased with the outcome. As you mention, not adding too much of the upper octave gives best results and doesn't make the sound too "chimey".

 

I'm much more inclined to get tweaking other patches now, so thanks again for the crash course! I can see some late nights ahead.

Glad you found it useful.

 

And yes, I too am quite pleased with the outcome.

 

As said it took a lot of tweaking, trial and error to get to a result I was actually satisfied with. 

 

Still I would wish that EHX would make the bass version of their Bass9 pedal, that is made for guitar to sound like different types of basses, a Guitar9 for bass to sound like a guitar or 8 string bass.

 

The Bass9 actually sounds surprisingly and impressively authentic. 

 

But the potential market for such a Guitar9 pedal is probably too small for it to ever happen.

 

 

Edited May 3 by Baloney Balderdash

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 02/05/2024 at 10:46, Homatron said:

Thanks for posting this! I've just picked up a Sub'N'Up mini and was keen to try to emulate an 8 string bass sound. I wouldn't have known where to start without your efforts. 

 

I added a little more gain to the octave up, and set some subtle modulation (chorus) to come in at the upper range of the dry knob. I found that in the Android app, some parameters were snapping to values outside of what you describe, but overall I'm pleased with the outcome. As you mention, not adding too much of the upper octave gives best results and doesn't make the sound too "chimey".

 

I'm much more inclined to get tweaking other patches now, so thanks again for the crash course! I can see some late nights ahead.

Ah, by the way, curious as to what your chorus settings are?

 

Might be useful to others as well.