Truss Rod Nuts

[jmccabe]

Hi

Since getting my new Dean Edge Pro I've started tinkering with the setup on my old Aria Laser Electric (Heritage) Bass, but I seem to be having problems getting a lower action. I've read loads of bits and pieces here and there and I think I know what to do, but I've hit a snag. I've tried tightening the truss rod a little at a time but the last time I noticed that the nut where the allen key goes in appears to be cracking up a bit. I haven't really forced it or anything, but there is some damage there. So my first question is are the threads, diameters and lengths of these nuts fairly standard or do they vary hugely from brand to brand? If they're pretty standard then presumably the nice nickel one from WDMusic will fit.

Secondly is a more general question. I've lowered the saddles quite so that they're very close to bottomed out but the action in the middle of the neck still seems quite high. However after the 15th fret or so I'm getting quite a lot of buzz. From what I've read that suggest that there's too much relief (the place I read that said "buzz on the high frets -> too much neck relief, buzz on the lower frets -> too little neck relief, buzz all the way up -> strings too low). That is why I'm trying to reduce the relief by tightening the truss rod so that, at some point, I can raise the bridge saddles back up a bit.

I've also been looking at the possibility of shimming the neck but as far as I can see, if I shim it at the nut end of the join I should be able to overcome teh buz on the high frets but it will make the action at the middle frets even worse. If I shim at the body end of the join then I'll have to raise the sadlles quite a bit which might end up with the action being no better in the middle frets.

So I'm a bit not sure what to do. Comparing the neck to the Dean it certainly looks like there is too much relief there, i.e. it's much more bent, but the Dean is a thru-neck so does that make a difference?

Finally there's a possibility I would take it along to an expert to get it sorted out, but I was wondering what that's likely to cost and whether anyone knows a good place near the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire border.

Thanks for any advice.
John

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='jmccabe' post='284670' date='Sep 16 2008, 12:00 AM']Hi

Since getting my new Dean Edge Pro I've started tinkering with the setup on my old Aria Laser Electric (Heritage) Bass, but I seem to be having problems getting a lower action. I've read loads of bits and pieces here and there and I think I know what to do, but I've hit a snag. I've tried tightening the truss rod a little at a time but the last time I noticed that the nut where the allen key goes in appears to be cracking up a bit. I haven't really forced it or anything, but there is some damage there. So my first question is are the threads, diameters and lengths of these nuts fairly standard or do they vary hugely from brand to brand? If they're pretty standard then presumably the nice nickel one from WDMusic will fit.

Secondly is a more general question. I've lowered the saddles quite so that they're very close to bottomed out but the action in the middle of the neck still seems quite high. However after the 15th fret or so I'm getting quite a lot of buzz. From what I've read that suggest that there's too much relief (the place I read that said "buzz on the high frets -> too much neck relief, buzz on the lower frets -> too little neck relief, buzz all the way up -> strings too low). That is why I'm trying to reduce the relief by tightening the truss rod so that, at some point, I can raise the bridge saddles back up a bit.

I've also been looking at the possibility of shimming the neck but as far as I can see, if I shim it at the nut end of the join I should be able to overcome teh buz on the high frets but it will make the action at the middle frets even worse. If I shim at the body end of the join then I'll have to raise the sadlles quite a bit which might end up with the action being no better in the middle frets.

So I'm a bit not sure what to do. Comparing the neck to the Dean it certainly looks like there is too much relief there, i.e. it's much more bent, but the Dean is a thru-neck so does that make a difference?

Finally there's a possibility I would take it along to an expert to get it sorted out, but I was wondering what that's likely to cost and whether anyone knows a good place near the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire border.

Thanks for any advice.
John[/quote]

I'm going to suggest something is wrong with your neck. Do you know how to check the neck relief? Hold down the string against the first fret and the last fret (or as near as you can). The string should *just* clear the 12th fret. I'm going to guess that you'll have a big gap in there. That would mean radging up your truss road a lot but you'll need to fix it first. I very much doubt that parts are standard - you'll need to get the right bits.

[jmccabe]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='284838' date='Sep 16 2008, 10:58 AM']I'm going to suggest something is wrong with your neck. Do you know how to check the neck relief? Hold down the string against the first fret and the last fret (or as near as you can). The string should *just* clear the 12th fret. I'm going to guess that you'll have a big gap in there. That would mean radging up your truss road a lot but you'll need to fix it first. I very much doubt that parts are standard - you'll need to get the right bits.[/quote]

I compared the relief between the Aria and the Dean. On the Dean I can slide a sheet of paper under it easily but two sheets are held in place. On the Aria it's not quite as good; 3 sheets are just about held in place. So I don't think the problem with the relief is massive but it could probably do with being a little bit less.

It is possible though that I need to get some fret work done though, as the ones towards the nut are a bit worn compared to the ones towards the bridge (oddly enough!).

John

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='284838' date='Sep 16 2008, 10:58 AM']I'm going to suggest something is wrong with your neck.[/quote]


Greets,

Generally, the older Aria necks are *very* stable as they're a sandwich of three pieces of quarter-sawn maple with the centre piece reversed. If yours has the 2 + 2 tuners on the headstock you should be able to see the stripe up the middle of the neck.

I'd recommend having the frets re-crowned & levelled followed by a setup.

About a year ago I took my 1981-built Aria TSB-400 ([topic="21920"]Third one down[/topic]) into the Bass Gallery in London as the first three frets were showing signs of significant wear. £75 later (excluding strings) they'd tweaked the rod, levelled the frets, & set the action so low that I had to raise it a tad to suit my style.

It felt like a new bass.

As soon as I've got another spare £75 my SB-900 will be going in - it's nice now, but I expect they'll make it bloody fantastic.

Pete.

[jmccabe]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='286054' date='Sep 17 2008, 04:57 PM']Greets,

Generally, the older Aria necks are *very* stable as they're a sandwich of three pieces of quarter-sawn maple with the centre piece reversed. If yours has the 2 + 2 tuners on the headstock you should be able to see the stripe up the middle of the neck.[/quote]

Yip - here's a picture of the neck on mine. .

[quote]I'd recommend having the frets re-crowned & levelled followed by a setup.[/quote]

Having read more about fret dressing etc, I''m tending to believe that's the sort of thing that also needs doing. Did I mention some of the bottom ones look a bit worn?

[quote]About a year ago I took my 1981-built Aria TSB-400 ([topic="21920"]Third one down[/topic]) into the Bass Gallery in London as the first three frets were showing signs of significant wear. £75 later (excluding strings) they'd tweaked the rod, levelled the frets, & set the action so low that I had to raise it a tad to suit my style.[/quote]

That's exactly the sort of thing I'd like, but I'd leave the action low as I like it that way.

All I need though is to find somewhere near me that can do it! I'm in Ledbury in Herefordshire so anywhere anyone can recommend near there would be good.

It felt like a new bass.

I have some interesting news however - last night I got the nut off the truss rod and had a reasonably good look at it; the damage I thought was obvious doesn't seem too bad at all. So I lubed the thread and put it back on and it seemed to work a bit better. I also took off the neck to see if there was already a shim under it as it sits at an interesting angle but there's nothing there. I used a carpet join cover thing (door threshold?), a metal one, to check the straightness of the neck and it seems reasonably ok under no load, so I'm going to continue carefully trying to add a little bit more to the truss rod for a couple of days and see if I get anywhere. If I knew a good guitar tech nearby I'd take it there instead!

Thanks for your message.

John

[jmccabe]

Wow - can't believe it's been so long but, as I get massively annoyed when things just stop, I thought I should add what happened after this....

I gave it to the guy in Nick Fisher in Hereford (not actually NIck Fisher, just his shop, which isn't Nick Fisher any more as Nick's in the, err, nick for kiddy-fiddling, although he might be out by now) who passed it on to some geezer called Lawrence who, I believe, does that sort of thing. He had a fiddle with it, decided he'd done the best he could and any more work would be stupidly expensive, and gave it back to me. He only charged about £15 for what he did, and it's definitely better than it was, but still not great, at the time. It's been in a case for a while though as I hadn't used it until recently. It doesn't seem as bad as I remember though, although still not a patch on the Dean Edge Pro, but usable, and the string spacing makes it easier to slap/pop than on the 5-string Dean.

HTH