ThomBassmonkey

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1343919052' post='1757334']
At the risk of exposing my ignorance, I don't think the vertical axis is as important, as your ears are on the horizontal axis...
or something...
[/quote]

The reason that horizontal axis is considered more important is that the audience's heads (i.e. ears) are fairly close together in height. They're spread very widely horizontally though.

I played drums too. I do think it does help a bit. As you probably know, when you play an instrument, you naturally follow it a bit more (e.g. when you're at a gig, you can pick out what the bass is doing easier if you play) which is obviously a good thing.

It's not vital, but it does help. Same as playing guitar will help you understand what they're playing and how to fit in.

I've had a BO5, I'd highly recommend them. Brilliant build quality and awesome sound (if you like that kinda tone!).

If you have questions about Barefaced, throw [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/692-alexclaber/"]alexclaber[/url] a message. He'll be able to give you honest advice and won't mess you about as you get a trial period and he won't want to waste his own time/money or reputation.

[quote name='Machines' timestamp='1343842603' post='1756234']
Don't listen to this guy he's paid to say this !!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

Ooh, who's paying? I'm in!

With regards to Flea, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ARZGwfhC_U go to about 4:35 and it'll tell you. In that vid he's using 2001RBs, I have the newer 2001RB-II! Definitely 1 better!! haha

Pete, a different head and speaker can make that 1x10 sound very different! I'm not a huge Chilli's fan so I'm not saying I've heard the difference but I can definitely believe that it's possible.

The class of an amp is to do with how the power sent to the speakers is handled. Class D amps (such as the GK MB series) are generally smaller and lighter.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343861699' post='1756667']
That thing you do when you do science in school where you eliminate variables: going for a cab with good dispersion is doing that, pretty rare circumstances that other problems out of your control will fix a dispersion issue with the cab, so you are nearly always going to be better off with a cab without that issue to start with, leaving you free to concentrate on the other issues. Even on a cab with an issue, understanding its characteristics means you can work with it and a bad room, rearranging all the stuff in a weird room at the local gig pub yielded pretty good results, and minimal humping cabs about to find out because we knew roughly how it should work. Then one super smart guy in another band decided he knew better and faced a 4x12 at himself an directly at the wall behind him, rendering himself inaudible aside from his octaver glitching.
[/quote]

Ok, I'll break down what I'm trying to say since it feels like you're repeating yourself.

- I trust everything you, Bill and Alex (and others) have written in here. It fits with what I have experienced and I have no reason to disbelieve it.
- In my opinion, though dispersion can be a factor, there's far more important ones so for me dispersion is way down the checklist when I buy a cab.
- I accept that in your opinion dispersion is important and take it into account accordingly when looking at cabs.

One thing that's helped me is being in a band. How involved in the recording can you be? If you have a night a week where you get together and mess about with the tracks, jam along to them etc, you get into a routine and it becomes easier to set aside that time each week to concentrate on bass and because you're meeting someone else, it's harder to back out of it.

Also try jamming along to tracks, find some acoustic stuff (for example) that doesn't have a bass recorded on it and play along, figuring out how to play the songs is fun, learning to play by ear is a useful skill and there's no frustration at finding crappy tabs online, only the frustration at taking a while to get started (assuming you can't already play by ear).

Set yourself goals you can easily achieve. Aim to learn a section of a song a day for example, that way in the time before recording, you should easily have the songs learned but because you're only learning one section a day, it's only likely to be 15 minutes a day or so.

My band's doing a cover set at the moment for a birthday and wedding, the birthday is on Friday and I've not even heard most of the songs in at least 5 years so I can completely empathise! Luckily as useless as I am at putting aside time to practice, I'm a very fast learner and have picked up the songs in the few band practices we've had.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343839229' post='1756145']
If its crap sound where I am, its crap sound, even if the bassist thinks it sounds fine where he is. Might be because he likes crap sound, might be because it sounds good where he is. I don't make automatic assumptions, but I do know some things to be fact, and use them as reference points to figure out where a problem is.

Also for Dood, 'a room' won't cut it because room effects are part of it. But polar response is easy enough to demonstrate with a sine and being outside with no nearby walls with you cab. Or by being in a band with a guitarist who has a 4x12 and eqs without their head in front of the speaker, and if you've been there are tried to explain the problem to them, you know how those of us trying to explain to people in this thread feel.
[/quote]

Agreed, crap sound is crap if it sounds crap to the listener, elsewhere in the room it might be good sound. Even the most ideally designed cab based on the most advanced physics could still suffer that fate depending on the room it's in.

The fact you say that "'a room' won't cut it" kinda sums up what I've been trying to say. If we can't test it without breaking out scientific equipment and using sine waves in a specific environment that it's very unlikely anyone will ever play in, it won't be a huge factor on the sound compared to the other things going on. I don't think we disagree on the science, I can appreciate what you, Bill and Alex are saying and I have no reason to doubt you, we just disagree on the importance and impact of it. I'm happy to agree to disagree on that, the world would be a boring place if everyone had the same tastes in amps.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343837000' post='1756088']
Crap gear like gear that sounds bad from where you are standing? Obviously as demonstrated above, that can be the fault of the bassist for not knowing how to use it, but equally it can be down to it sounding totally fine from where the bassist is.
[/quote]

No, crap gear that sounds crap from anywhere, including on stage (often having heard it from on stage while moving my gear about during soundcheck). When you go to a gig and the sound's bad, do you automatically assume it's because the bassist's using a 410 because that's what it sounds like.

Conversely, I've never had a bad word said about my 410RBHs (at least the sound. The size and weight is a different matter). Soundguys have regularly said they liked the sound of them when I was using them and they didn't have any radical shifts in sound as I moved about.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343835765' post='1756046']
You've never been to a gig with bad sound, between the 60s and now?
[/quote]

Tens, maybe hundreds. That's usually to do with the sound engineer though, or sometimes crap gear. I've never ever stood in front of the stage and thought "if I move from here to there, the change in sound from the bass amp ruins the overall sound".

Alex, IMO alignment of the speakers is like what material the body of a bass is made from. I'm sure it does affect the sound on some level, but it's such a minor factor compared to everything else, it's not something worth considering unless the other option is flipping a coin. A bass amp you like will sound nice whatever configuration the speakers are. One you don't like isn't going to sound nice just because you make it a 210 instead of a 410.

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1343816535' post='1755561']
That's one possibility, yes. Certainly I have heard plenty of 'musicians' talking about gear and "wanting to blag free stuff from" a particular company. Yes they might like the gear, but maybe they think that you get free stuff and have to do nothing in return. It doesn't work like that. It's a bit like saying 'oh I got a free iPhone with this new contract!' - ahhhh, no, no you didn't you're still paying for it....
[/quote]

Yeah, I guess. I find it frustrating being an endorsee and hearing things like "don't listen to Thom, he's endorsed so he has to say that." I think so many people just see it as the artist getting free stuff and a brown nose and nothing else. Maybe someone has an endorrsement contract they can share? I'm sure it'd be interesting to some people. Mine has a confidentiality clause in it and the endorsement I turned down never got as far as a contract.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1343806611' post='1755368']
Nope, but our understanding of speakers has moved on from what it was in the 60s.
[/quote]

So we couldn't hear the difference in the 60s because we didn't have the understanding?

I'm not saying that what experts like Bill and Alex talk about isn't true (I respect their posts and trust them) but it makes such a small difference once you've taken into account all the factors that 99% of people aren't even aware of it and the majority of that 1% isn't bothered by it. If it was a serious concern and something that should be taken into account when buying, it'd be a much bigger deal.

Just for the record, I went from two 210RBH cabs to two 410RBHs and never noticed a difference. Maybe I would've done if I'd specifically listened for it or directly compared them (I didn't own them at the same time) but I've certainly never thought "bloody hell, this cab goes really quiet/sounds totally different when I stand here" with my 410RBH and I've used my wireless with that and gone into the audience at various gigs ranging from the amp being on the floor to being at head height (for the audience).

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1343806160' post='1755363']
They endured cassette tapes for a long time too. But CDs are a better medium.
[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure 210s aren't a new invention.

I'd have a word with the drummer. It only takes one person to screw with a band's social dynamic and since there's going to be hours when you're sat around talking to each other (before gigs as well as practices) it needs to work.

All active preamps (afaik) just need the lead to be plugged in for the circuit to be on, same as pedals etc.

It should cope with 24hours ok, but the battery will be flatter than before so be aware of it.

Have we had the standard "410s suck because dispersion is terrible" and "cab manufacturers don't know what they're doing" replies yet?

For me the only problem with 410s is weight. I'd use my 410RBHs in a heartbeat if I could be bothered to lug them around. My 212s sound just as good (though very different) and weigh less than half the weight so they're more practical. The music industry has used 410s as standard for decades, I'm sure if they've endured this long, they're capable of doing the job.

Why do endorsed artists have to be well known?

I like to think I've had a hand in a few people on here making the choice to go with a GK amp, also out there in the scary world I've had a lot of people tell me they love my amp and regardless of whether or not they eventually buy one, GK isn't that well known and I'm doing my part to raise awareness of them. My band's also being played on Kerrang at the moment and my amps are featured in the video, surely, despite the fact I'm not famous, that's got to be worth some support from Polar and GK?

I think the biggest thing is that it's basically advertising. Giving someone a discount doesn't actually cost the company anything (assuming they're not selling for less than production costs) and it gets their name about a bit. I think some people don't understand the point of endorsements because they've not found gear that they're happy to settle with and thus assume that people that want/have endorsements are being greedy/wanting free stuff.

I don't get why someone would get an endorsement if they don't like the gear. I know it feels great to be endorsed, but I really don't see the point. I've personally turned down an endorsement because I didn't like the gear as much as what I was already using.

I'm endorsed by GK and do as much as I can to help them, they're on our website, facebook etc. I even have them in my sig here and try and help as much as I can when they're mentioned on this forum. I'm proud to be endorsed by GK, not because I have an endorsement but because I love the brand. I can't imagine getting an endorsement just for the sake of it. The drummer in my band has an endorsement and ended up paying significantly more for his snare compared to another endorsement offer he had (It had to be shipped from the US and incurred all the taxes associated rather than having a UK brand endorsement). He picked the one he has because he preferred the brand and the gear so it was a no brainer.

You should do a build thread on it, I'm sure lots of people (as this thread shows) are interested in how to do it and the results.

I love Warwicks. If you know the Gallien tone, Warwicks are a bit like the bass version of that. loads of growl and meat but still versatile enough to do a wide variety of tones (though they'll always sound like Warwicks).

I actually went to them about an endorsement a while back, I think they were focusing on their amps at the time and I got offered one for them but no bass endorsement so I've moved on over time. I still miss my Thumb though, I saw someone playing one at a gig a couple of weeks ago and remembered mine with a smile.

Yeah, I still remember Bob saying on a US forum that they were designed like that for the benefit of the sound. Even I'm skeptical of that. I'm not sure why he said it though, the amps are amazing value for money and I can't see the problem with them being honest about cutting costs by not bracing etc. If they were expensive amps then I'd expect excuses, but with them being so cheap for what you're getting, I don't see a problem with it.

Maybe they tried it for the benefit of cutting costs and were happy with the sound, I can't imagine it actually benefitting the sound in any way though.

Mine goes on the strap, I've never had any problems with it working loose or falling off. I attach it where the strap's doubled up though so it's thicker and thus more grip.

I think it's probably more environmental than genetic. If you're surrounded by a lot of music, intervals, scales etc sound more natural.

[quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1342876001' post='1742208']
'festival' gigs seem to be the worst, your gonna enjoy your self so you dont deserve to be paid,
[/quote]

Yeah, I can see how as a band that needs to promote youselves, playing a gig to lots of people that probably aren't there to see you and likely haven't heard of you before is a bad idea. Or wait...

Lots of people play for fun, you don't expect to get paid to go and watch a gig you enjoy, playing a gig is no different to some people.

If you're a good band and you look around, it's not hard to get paid a couple of hundred a gig. The biggest problem is promoters that aren't actually involved in the pub, if they have to pay £600 to bands, it's unlikely they'll make that back. Even a promoter that does work for the pub, £600 is a lot of beers to sell when the majority of bands only pull in a handful of people.

Supply and demand I'm afraid.