ARGH

[quote name='OldGit' post='439007' date='Mar 19 2009, 10:38 AM']How about trying one of these


[url="http://www.fender.com/products//search.php?partno=0194060720"]American Deluxe[/url][/quote]
Nice,thankyou OG,But Im looking for low....the Fartbucker might give me that..I dont have the cash,or the space for yet another instrument,Im trimming my collection as we speak...

Co-incidentally Jase,did you go the whole hog and do the scalloping on the fingerboard too?

Just read this,and totally disagree

[quote name='yorick' post='438959' date='Mar 19 2009, 09:50 AM']No............ [/quote]
Back that up with?

Its graphic proof,thats some people are very very petty.....it was over the whole instrument.

So,guys and girls...any ideas,is it worth the routing?

Ive a 96 Fender,I lost the original P/U in a court case 6 years ago,so its always and will always have this battered,roadworn,DiMarzio P,in it.....Now the Band Im in plays in Drop C,and its only one guitarist,and I try to 'fill' the sonic space left as much as I can...using the timbres of the lowest strings up high,plucking...wellllll....striking the strings to get as many overtones as I can,and generally I have my 'Distortomatic' sound giving it laldi....

Im trying to fill the room,but summats missing in the sound....

Anyways ,I finish rehearsals last night,wander in,and have a surf on the web...and I see old Sheehan and recall the Model one mod that the 'Wife' had....

Now I dont have much sentiment over instrument value,But has anyone ever done the 'Billy' and had the whole routing and fartbucker fitted...dual outputs the whole sheebang..

But is it worth it,am I trashing a decent pretty much stock instrument,for very little benefit sonically....AND it trashes my spine,and will probably be only playing in this key for the next 18 months...2 years at best!

I also heard the Model one dosent line up with the strings...so anyone got a 'Willpower' to compare???

Ive never played a Wal with a neck dive problem ever,yes they are heavy,but Ive played heavier Jazz's and Stingers and P's.


I wanted one 10-12 years ago...when they used to be found for £850-1200 depending on condition and model.

Still would.

Save time,save effort,save your sanity....

Save money and buy custom!

I have to say Bilbo..in my genre of playing,producers are actually trying to bring back the idea of a ryth section,actually teaching Bassists what the instrument can do rather than double the guitar all the time.

Reusable cable ties..buy an extra seat,and buy it a drink...its got to enjoy itself

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='437631' date='Mar 17 2009, 06:00 PM']Seems to me that Jeff Berlin only teaches/advocates one aspect of being a pro - technical/musical ability.[/quote]
Would you let an unqualified idiot rewire your house? Fit a Gas central heating system in?

[quote name='Eight' post='437664' date='Mar 17 2009, 06:49 PM']Ah cool.

I think the reputation of music theory has been ruined by the old school piano teacher type person, who looks down on anyone who doesn't want to learn every nuance of theory and just enjoys playing (and may do pretty well for themselves in that). I thought they were a dying breed, but I wonder if Berlin is one of them.

That kind of attitude does nothing to encourage people to see theory in the right light and to consider it for themselves. You just get people's backs up.

Edit: Forgot I wanted to say that how you judge yourself is regardless of whether you choose theory or not. Its important to be able to be realistic about your abilities, know where you're weak and choose whether to do something about it. I can no more judge my potential based on Bach's knowledge of theory than a non-reader etc. can judge theirs based on Jimi Hendrix.

Edit 2: I realise Hendrix placed that hideous six stringed instrument, not a respectable bass such as the fine folk here.[/quote]
I came up against that,but its not old school banging about theory,its about the traditional position of instruments..Bass does this,Sax does that,Violas do...etc etc

Thats the mindset you are fighting against,I was..things are diffeent,but the standards of acceptable learning,and in some cases education are falling.

Maybe everyone should read the whole interview with Thunes (in Wictors book)...before painting him as bitter...

Thing is,how many of us are fulltime workers...a ton less that 'Casual hobbyists' (I love AJ) on here...

And if we actually gave as much as classical musicians do to study and practise,we would all be a hell of a lot better. Yeah I know we dont play Wagner,or Mozart,but if we approached our instrument with the same dilligent mindset,I dont think we'd be having time to post on here,navally dissing something so few of us can actually do.

[quote name='Rich' post='437674' date='Mar 17 2009, 06:57 PM']No, you missed my point. What I was getting at was that with the viewpoint Jeff B appears to have, re: playing an instrument if you're not a reader or learning to read, means that Messrs. Karn and Palladino should not be playing at all. Which of course they can, and should be. It's not a case of "if it's good enough for [i]X[/i] it's good enough for me" at all.[/quote]
Read a bit more JB Rich and you will realise that is utter crap....

And Thunes and Berlin are right,and I dont read well either.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdcrjTMNuCI&feature=channel_page"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdcrjTMNuCI...re=channel_page[/url]

Just been searching around..and Ive found out how little and biased the interview actually is in its edited form...In Wictors book it is practically half the book.

A late night discussion with a buddy (at 3AM,it was lunch for him) and a root about reveals that Scott,is a man of many talents,and is still available...but dont try to add him on Facebook.

This is him and a mate,and the kids....
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcwbb_-yR4o&eurl=http://www.geoscott.com/index.shtml"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcwbb_-yR4o...com/index.shtml[/url]

This man is an incredible musician,that has found happiness.

It still does not have that great an effect upon tone though....wood is so minimal.

Oh its alright....


Its ok to be wrong,good construction is a good thing,just dont think it actually is the greatest influence upon tone.

Look Alex...this is,like most things,going nowhere...just agree that Im right,you're wrong and all is good,yes?

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='437357' date='Mar 17 2009, 02:57 PM']No its not

It's physics.[/quote]
I was being a git

I wonder what the equation of a Bass note being created is...

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='437341' date='Mar 17 2009, 02:47 PM']Oh good, so for the sake of enjoying this rare moment of consensus, how about we completely forget that the metal is attached to wood which in itself has a resonant frequency that differs to metal and might otherwise influence the way in which the metal vibrates thereby making the whole argument inconveniently messy and complicated? [/quote]

Its all in the hands man

[quote name='alexclaber' post='437277' date='Mar 17 2009, 01:57 PM']Transparency is not an opinion. It means accurate reproduction of the source. A large hotwound humbucker will filter out so much of the higher harmonics that you hear a blinkered view of the instrument - that is not transparent.

My '87 Warwick wearing tapewounds has more aggressive mids and highs than most Fenders with stainless steel rounds. Unplugged. And plugged in even more so due to the EMGs. If strings are more important than construction how can that be the case?

If you think only a small amount of vibration goes into (and out of) the wood then either you have a problem with the nerves in your hands and abdomen, you've only ever played really bad instruments or you're being deeply unobservant.

Alex[/quote]

I refer to transparent to the context you write it..its hypothetical,its an opinion..if you want to talk about pre-amps..colouring sound,thats not what the convos on about..its about wood affecting tone and that influence...I say its minimal,and P/U's,scale and string choice,and style of play govern that to a far greater extent.

Compared to the actual string,the ratio of body vibration in affection is miniscule. And a magnetic P/U isnt made to pick that up,if you want thump,as in a slap,ok,theres some need for vibration,I can see that but excess vibration would cause feedback. Change the P/u's or the strings brand or guages and everythings different. Played through a different rig,everythings different again,and thats not the wood creating that.

Transmission of vibration from wood to string to what is audible,is pretty much dead once the fret is touched and in reverse clamped to the bridge saddle....wood WILL affect tone if you play fretless,but that then is affected by finish..and thats still not the wood.

If you had mass vibration you would have a deadspot and wolftone crazy instrument that would be near unplayable.


Play an upright,then you learn about vibration,I do....

"I A/B'd two stingrays with different anchoring and they sounded the same to me. I've also made one post where I described at length my experiences of the two systems but someone's deleted the thread from what I can see and not put it on wiki. I really can't be arsed typing it all out again apart from saying the string vibrates between two points - the nut and the saddle. What happens either side of that is largely irrelevant. All IMO of course."

Pretty much correct,although a small amount of vibration will go into the string anchor and beyond the nut,maybe bring wood into the picture a little more,but what matters is metal vibrating over magnet.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='436944' date='Mar 17 2009, 10:01 AM']If a bass doesn't sound good unplugged then no amount of electronics will save it.

I would never claim that "wood X sounds like Y" because the system is too complex and interactive. But the tone starts with how you pluck a string and then how that string vibrates due to how it is supported and how energy flows between the string and the instrument. If your bass has a big mudbucker up by the neck and you play through an overdriven valve rig then the wood choices matter very little, save them being of sufficient neck rigidity and body resonance to have some tone. If your bass has reasonably transparent pickups like nice single coils or more fancy ones like Alembic, Wal or Q-Tuners, and you tend to DI through a reasonably transparent preamp/DI when you're recording then the wood choices make a lot more difference.

So although getting hung up on the tone of exotic woods is futile, it is very important not to forget the importance of construction in the tone of a bass - that's what makes some cheap basses sound fantastic and some sound totally blah. If one has a stiff neck and a resonant body it can sound fantastic even if it costs hardly anything. But then pick up another one where the neck doesn't have that rigidity and the body is just dead sounding when you tap it and the tone will be disastrous. And it's the ability to choose the right pieces of wood and the QC to make sure they result in the right tone that sets apart something like a Sadowsky from a Squier. But try enough Squiers and you will probably get lucky and find one with as good an unplugged tone as a Sadowsky (though it may not feel so nice to play!) and that's when aftermarket electronics prove their worth.

Alex[/quote]
I can hear what you are saying Alex,but a quantity is bunkum....

I have never,or has anyone bought a solidbody instrument,on its acoustic,unplugged sound alone,I know some reviewers of instruments will talk and write about an unplugged instruments 'sound' but its hokum,its opinion,it differs..thats hard truth..its differs......and after market add-ons WILL make any instrument better,if you like the sound they produce...I still cant fathom why single coils are still in existance,due to the inert failure in the design (the hum) yes they have a pleasing sound to some,but the sonic costs make them redundant. (thats my opinion)

'Transparent' is an opinion,as a word,my idea of 'Transparent' will be different to yours,will different to the next guy,will be different to the next person etc etc...take any instrument,change the P/U from a Bart to a Nordy to whatever,each will sound different.

Acoustic properties only matter if you want an acoustic instrument,thats when wood choice matters.....

My point is the who-ha that people get on about a wood is THIS sound,its pish,unlike when you get a P/U you can actually test it and say 'Yes it produces this tone'......How many here have radically upped their guage of string and found a bassier,deeper,heavier sound...thats physics,both in the way the string behaves over the P/U..and its amount of metal doing so...another thing that can be proven by science. You cannot do that with wood.

I would say string construction has,probably,a bigger affection on tone over wood....

Wood,is because there isnt much else to build a Bass with...save polymers and graphite,at least not in any practical reaches of the imagination....

Some makers here,used Graphite rods,in necks,it increases the stiffness,but does it affect tone,hey they've removed wood...can anyone tell the difference....isnt that bad they have removed wood?? Isnt that bad wood choice,because they had to do that? yes/no?

Yes there is an n'th of tone from wood,but it does not rule nor matter as much as a quality P/U and string choice...bridge construction,or where the string is plucked.

A player sounds like the player they are,be it on a J or a Ricky or a Warwick or a P.....A is A regardless of how its produced.

One word lads..and its a love or hate em affair.....

BURNS

[quote name='alexclaber' post='436429' date='Mar 16 2009, 06:37 PM']The great thing about this is that ARGH can buy all those basses that sound really hopeless, put nice electronics in them, and sell them for a fortune because they'll sound amazing.

Alex[/quote]
Its what the replacement part industry (Badass,DiMarzio,EMG etc) was founded upon Alex