flyfisher

[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']The venue insurance covers the venue owner from damage that the venue owner does and hopefully any of the venues employees. As you are not technically directly employed by the venue owner you will not be included on his insurance. I suppose they could but that would make their insurance pretty expensive and difficult to manage.[/quote]
I'm not convinced. The venue owner is putting on a show for the public. The public are paying him, not the band. The band's contract is with the venue owner, not the public. Does the venue owner require temporary bar staff to have PLI?

Having said that, I agree that things could get messy, but I suspect that's because the insurance industry likes it that way so they can sell olverlapping policies to everyone instead of a simple, comprehensive policy for the venue itself.


[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']What happens if someone climbs onto the stage and throws your mike into the audience and hurts someone? Do you want to be arguing over whose fault it is or just pass the problem to your insurance company's lawyer?[/quote]
I understand your point, but surely ownership of an item doesn't make you liable if someone else 'steals' it and harms someone with it? Are you liable if someone steals your car and kills someone with it? if so, then the world really is going mad.


[quote name='TimR' post='917051' date='Aug 6 2010, 03:15 PM']If your van breaks down on the way to a £20,000 wedding do you want to be arguing with the Bride and Grooms insurer? For the sake of £100 you save yourself a lot of hassle and money.[/quote]
Yep, that's a fair, though different, point. If the band has contracted with the bride and groom then non-appearance would be a breach of that contract. It's not a PLI issue though.

Since any venue will surely have PLI, why is it necessary for bands to have it as well? OK, I know it will depend on their precise policy and exclusions, but I'm thinking in more general terms and surely it would be more sensible, possibly cheaper even, for the venue to hold insurance covering anyone inside their venue?

Also, asking for PAT testing seems to be a bit of a scam to me since band equipment is not really portable in the grand scheme of things is it?

From: [url="http://www.pat-testing.info/appliance.htm"]http://www.pat-testing.info/appliance.htm[/url]
[quote]The National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers (napit) define a portable appliance as 'any electrical item which can or is intended, to be moved whilst connected to an electrical supply.'[/quote]

[quote name='TimR' post='915757' date='Aug 5 2010, 11:32 AM']That depends on if you are in a pro-band or a band of mates doing it for fun. Sacking a mate is a difficult thing to do. There have been several threads here asking how to do it. Do we - Disband and form again - sent a text - etc...[/quote]
Yep, you've got it - we're a band of mates playing for fun and managing about one gig per month, mainly at private parties and other events rather than the regular 'pub circuit' (although we have played pubs). Plus, I'm the 'outsider' really in terms of how long we've all known each other, so it's not really my place to sack anyone.

I know of farmfactory but we usually use rehearsal facilities in Hertford.

[quote name='JTUK' post='914994' date='Aug 4 2010, 02:40 PM']You have rather made a mess of this by allowing the guy to buy a kit when he can't use the fundementals of the kit, ie kick drum.[/quote]
'Allowing' isn't really the right word. He can buy what he likes. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but at the time it all made sense; rusty drummer buys new kit to get back up to speed after a long layoff - except he can't practice at home.

Also, I wouldn't over-emphasise the tempo thing; he's not [u]all[/u] over the place, it's more like there's no energy there and it's all a bit slow. The previous comment about a drummer without a kick drum being a percussionist was spot-on really.

[quote name='JTUK' post='914994' date='Aug 4 2010, 02:40 PM']Unfortunately, as this has festered. then I would think a critical band call on this would split the unit up as he is mates of one of the guys and you may well sack him. His mate is probably not going to support that...so..????

But, you really don't have any choice, as far as I can see...it just depends on how you play your hand.[/quote]

The whole band is made up of long-term mates really. I'm only a newbie of 18 months, so I think it's a case of put up with it/drop hints to practice lots more
. . . . or leave.

[quote name='Bilbo' post='913875' date='Aug 3 2010, 02:07 PM']I'm no drummer but I can knock out a rhythm. Playing the drums and lkeaving out the bass drum makes its very easy. He's taking the easy route and fooling some of the people all of the time. To be blunt, he doesn't sound like a player at all (not suggesting he can't be but, without practice? No chance).

As for the nice guy bit, my Dad was a lovely bloke but I would never have booked him as a drummer. WHat you have here is a simple dilemma regarding where you want the band to sit in terms of quality. If you are a bunch of mates having a knock, 'nice guy' may be good enough - your social life may be more important than the music. If you have any sort of performance standards, you will probably be frustrated with chummy at the back as he is not delivering on core skills. Its you call.[/quote]

Oh dear. That's what happens when you pose a question to which you really already know the answer - you get a straight non-nonsense answer without all the emotional baggage. That reply is spot on in so many ways, which of course I already knew but was hoping I was wrong. The 'bunch of mates' thing is a big factor and certainly complicates things. As I originally said we're really a 'hobby band' in many respects and we know we're not going to set the music world on fire, but [u]it is[/u] frustrating, to me anyway, that the band has gone backwards and it's certainly spoiling my enjoyment. And what's the point if it's not fun and you're not being stretched? Oh dear.

[quote name='Commando Jack' post='913283' date='Aug 2 2010, 10:14 PM']I'm kind of confused, because a drummer who is not using his bass drum is a percussionist![/quote]
Funny you should say that, that's how it seems sometimes.


[quote name='Commando Jack' post='913283' date='Aug 2 2010, 10:14 PM']I am also wondering what the practise/gig volumes and setups are like. If you're playing at full gig volume then an unmiked bass drum can easily disappear. Also, some drummers will stand on the kick pedal during sound check, and when they settle in to play, they ease off and it gets lost again.[/quote]
We don't normally mic the drums but I don't think that's a problem as we don't play particularly loud. Our PA is only 220W but we only use it for vocals and we tend to play small venues so the backline gives enough volume. I really don't think we're overpowering the drums.

We have played larger venues where we've used the in-house PA, in which case the drums have been fully mic'd, but it didn't really make much difference.

One for each battery?

Yep, I'd go along with that list and point 1 seems to be our biggest problem, probably a consequence of not enough of point 2.

[quote name='Doddy' post='912225' date='Aug 1 2010, 08:28 PM']The first question I have to ask is how did he get the gig if he didn't have a kit?[/quote]
We hired a kit at the rehearsal room. Unless you mean why did we go for a drummer without a kit who hadn't played for years? Er, pass.

[quote name='Doddy' post='912225' date='Aug 1 2010, 08:28 PM']As far as tempo goes,it's really the responsibility of the whole band.[/quote]
Yeah, I know what you mean and I wouldn't say we're all over the place. The issue is more one of not enough 'oomph' in the drumming; there's a lack of energy and drive, which is not helped by the lack of a solid kick drum. We played a gig at the weekend and had to ask him to play louder during the sound check - how many bands here experience that ?

Er, this: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=97211&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=97211&hl=[/url]

Thanks for all the comments; they pretty much reflect my own thoughts, which is reassuring in itself.

If I wasn't also playing in another band (with no such problems) I think I'd make more of an issue about it, but the others don't seem as bothered as me so I don't like to cause a big falling out. But I am getting increasingly frustrated that it's holding the band back from really progressing. I don't know why he stopped playing for so long, or how good he was back then and I hadn't thought of the possible stamina issue (he's early 50s). Personally, I think lack of practice is a big issue. I practice a lot at home because I want to be pretty much on top of things in the rehearsal room - out of personal pride as much as anything - but his practice is our rehearsal and I don't think a few hours a week is enough.

I'd been playing with the band for about a year with the previous drummer and we were making, I think, good progress - there's nothing like the feeling you get on stage when the whole band is really nailing a song after all the hard work in rehearsal (well, almost nothing ), but I think we've now gone backwards and six months on, we don't seem to be making the same sort of progress. Thanks for indulging me in airing my frustration!

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='911773' date='Aug 1 2010, 11:25 AM']A rather well known bass tutor once told me that I should always aim to play with musicians that are in some way better than me. That way, I will always be inspired to improve my own playing and musicianship. I've always thought that was rather sage advice.[/quote]
I reckon that's absolutely 100% spot-on (and one for the 'famous quotes' thread!).

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='911465' date='Jul 31 2010, 08:17 PM']I think you deserve a good drummer who keeps great time. Bad drummer, bad band. The drummer is the time keeper.

Just my opinion, folks.[/quote]
Yeah, that's always been my view, at our sort of level anyway. I take Steve's point above, but I don't think we're into that sort of territory yet - we need to nail the basics first and a drummer who can provide a solid beat, even without any fancy fills, must surely be the starting point.

But he's such a nice guy I don't have the heart to make it a big issue - nor do the others I guess.

Very fair point Steve, but, believe me, we're not talking about busy patterns here.

I've thought about a metronome and some headphones but, to be honest, am too soft to suggest it for fear of upsetting him. Especially because I think its a technique problem; he really doesn't seem to use the kick drum. I'm also a bit unsure of myself as this is the first time I've encountered such a 'passive' drummer and it has thrown me a bit.

I'll check out the suggested video and maybe drop a few hints!

The drummer in one of the two bands I play with quit last year. The classic 'musical differences' sort of thing. No big deal, it happens. He was a good drummer though - when he would condescend to play along with the rest of us.

So, we all have a chat about how to find another drummer and we identify three possibilities from people we know of, but without ever having heard them play. I should probably add that we're a 'recreational' band playing for the fun of it and performing around one gig per month, so we're not exactly hardened, highly-organised pro musicians. But we get by and quite often even get asked back!

Anyway, we sort of agree to ask our various drummer contacts with a view to having them sit in on rehearsal sessions to see how things gell. First drummer is a personal friend of one of the band members, used to drum about 20 years ago, has no kit and nowhere at home to practice, comes along and fits right into the band's personality and can knock out a reasonable rhythm. Obviously a bit rusty but hardly surprising given a 20 year lay-off. Nice guy.

The problem, I think, is that we somehow didn't get around to asking any of the other contacts and seemed to just assume the new guy would get up to speed and everything would be fine. One rather loose rehearsal later we had our first gig. It went OK but we really were not very tight at all, but you probably all understand how such things can go unnoticed in a party atmosphere when everyone has had a few drinks (not the band!) and are just having a good time. Plus, it's his first gig for years, he's under-rehearsed and nervous, so give the guy a break. He's a nice guy.

More rehearsals and he's getting the structure of the songs. He even buys a drum kit, though can't practice at home to really get up to speed. Then the tempo problems start to become more noticeable; it's as if he drifts off and goes onto autopilot with a vacant stare. A few comments later and things are back on track, sort of. Except that he hardly seems to use the kick drum and I'm having a bit of a problem locking onto his rhythm. A few more comments, then he says to me "it's OK, I'll follow you". But I'm not used to playing with a drummer who only seems to use snare and cymbals. Surely it's the drummer's job to provide that basic rhythm and the 'drive' for the whole band? Nice guy though.

The other band I play in has a really 'active' drummer who provides a real driving force and a solid kick that I can lock onto. Rather like the departed drummer I started off with.

The thing is, I'm finding it a bit hard to be the main tempo reference for the band. I can't lock onto the non-existent drum beat and, instead, find myself listening out to check if the drummer is keeping time with me - which he can if I just play root notes on the beat (which I once did for an entire song, but only the singer spotted the irony!) but as soon as I play something else he'll drift off - both physically and, I suspect, mentally! Its a bit difficult to explain but I'm becoming more conscious that we're not providing a solid groove for the rest of the band and overall we're nowhere near as tight as we used to be with the previous drummer, which is taking a lot of the fun out of it all - for me at least. But he is a nice guy.

Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? Any suggestions?

I can understand why that StudioSpares unit looks so attractive for combos without headphone outputs and I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would ask them some detailed questions before trying it.

The problem with plugging headphones directly into line-level outputs is that they are high-impedance (usually about 10k ohms upwards) and plugging in an 8 ohm load such as headphones is not going to result in much of a signal. Also, unplugging speakers is not a great way to run an amp, although modern designs are generally more tolerant about such things.

So, yes, all a bit of a bodge (though some bodges can do the job) and, for practice purposes a separate headphone amp might be a better solution.

That's an interesting box of tricks and I'd guess it's based on some kind of variable attentuator, a bit similar to Stewarts suggestion but with better impedance matching perhaps? Not much info on the website, but it does say it [i]The HeadTAP is designed to connect headphones to a speaker output or a line level signal source[/i], and I'm not sure how a passive unit can work when connecting headphones to a line output. Might be worth talking to someone at StudioSpares - I've found them helpful in the past.

The problem with speaker outputs is that they can be so variable in terms of power and, to a lesser extent, impedance characteristics, so a passive solution can never be universally ideal.

A DI output will be far more consistent across all amps and will safely drive a dedicated headphone amp to give a universal and, more importantly, safe solution.

But the bottom line is not to plug headphones directly into an amp's speaker outputs.

c. 1973, local fete, House Of The Rising Sun plus a few originals, bassline picked out on an old acoustic guitar with an added pickup. Can't remember the amp details - Fane rings a bell. I suspect we were crap but we did get our photo in the local paper.

It's been all downhill ever since.

Is Waters never going to move on from The Wall?

Yawn.

[quote name='4000' post='908880' date='Jul 29 2010, 08:39 AM']FWIW, [b]I don't think anyone is wrong to dislike him[/b]. If he doesn't float your boat fair enough, and he's certainly not a great technical player. I can completely understand why he wouldn't be some people's cup of tea. [b]I do think arguing that he hasn't been influential is ridiculous though; that's not arguing taste at all.[/b] I don't like Clapton but to say he's not been influential as a guitarist would be ludicrous. Arguing that Macca wasn't at all influential is like arguing that the Romans never invaded Britain (I mean, what have they ever done for us? ).[/quote]
+1,000,000

Precisely. Disliking someone's music is, of course, fine. Indeed, it would be rather incredible if everyone in the world liked a particular song or album or even a whole style of music.

But it's simply daft to extrapolate that dislike into areas of factual inaccuracy, yet still play the "it's my opinion, so it's right" card.

"I hate Macca's music" - fine. Personal opinion, nothing really to discuss there. Move on.

"Macca can't play bass for toffee" - Er, just a little bit silly, don't you think? Might be worth a bit of discussion to try to correct an obvious misapprehension.

What next? "My opinion is that the Earth is flat, so don't try to tell me otherwise"?

Ultimately, of course, some people will never change their deluded belief that the Earth is flat, in which case any further discussion becomes pointless. A bit like this thread.

Just bought an Alesis SR-16 drum machine & footpedals from Chris.

Very quick to reply to initial PM and subsequent questions.

Everything well packed and all arrived safely and as described.

Basically, a perfect, trouble-free deal.

Many thanks Chris!

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='906773' date='Jul 27 2010, 10:39 AM']You don't even have to start trying to go as deep as that, just have the pathetic pro-McCartneys here accept that a lot of people just don't like what they hear when they a Beatles or McCartney song comes on, it's not difficult.[/quote]

You completely missed my point, perhaps by not reading my entire post, which included:

[i]Of course an opinion is just that and cannot, really, be wrong. But it's a common mistake to extrapolate opinions into daft statements such as "I can't stand XXX, s/he's a crap musician".[/i]

[quote name='Big_Stu' post='906725' date='Jul 27 2010, 09:53 AM']What the pro-Beatles party on here don't seem to be able to grasp is that statistics prove NOTHING, if it was the case then there'd be a part of this that belongs to the Spice Girls or Westlife.[/quote]
You may be confusing objective with subjective. Statistics are objective, opinions are subjective. It would be stupid to suggest that the Spice Girls were not wildly popular for a while but the statistics would show The Beatles to have a rather more enduring influence and legacy.

Of course an opinion is just that and cannot, really, be wrong. But it's a common mistake to extrapolate opinions into daft statements such as "I can't stand XXX, s/he's a crap musician".

I'd add Mull of Kintyre to the previous list of 'crap' Macca songs (IMO of course) but it adds little to the debate about his musical achievements.

I sometimes wonder if people confuse a dislike of Macca's musical achievements with his musical success.

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='904996' date='Jul 25 2010, 06:02 PM']I've set myself a few realistic goals 1) done sessions, 2) played on TV, 3) played the Marquee, 4) released a vinyl record, 5) toured. The only one I am yet to do is play abroad.[/quote]
I don't think I'm anywhere near that rather impressive list as yet, although I have played abroad.

Er, well, in Wales.

[i]enturbulation (uncountable)

The process of enturbulating, of agitating or disturbing.

This word is used almost exclusively in Scientology to describe the creation of turbulence between two terminals. Scientologists who question Scientology are usually considered to be enturbulated. Also, "enturbulate".[/i]

[url="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enturbulation"]http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enturbulation[/url]


Says it all really.

Wow, I'd love to see that show - what's the name of the band?


Meanwhile, Skank's post was right on the button. I'm constantly amazed by people who can 'hate' someone they've never met, and almost certainly never will, and so can have no idea about what they're really like.

Of course there will be some people that don't like Macca's music or bass playing. Fine. But that's hardly a reason to regard him as a to**er. And it's simply purile to even attempt to deny his success and influence. I guess it's an envy thing.

I can't stand opera, so I don't go or listen to it. I also don't bother to post on opera forums about them all being a bunch of warbling w*nkers who should get a life and do something with a bit more beat to it. Consequently, we all seem to get on fine.