alexclaber

[quote name='lemoley' post='56901' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:59 AM']firstly there are companies out there who build custom effects pedals - in fact it was a user on here who suggested and posted a link to one in the U.K saying how impressed with his he was[/quote]

They're all analogue, not digital.

[quote name='lemoley' post='56901' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:59 AM']secondly in the long run digital pedals do sound better than analogue, sure when you open up a new analogue pedal and compare it to a digital pedal there both going to sound great but over time due to the analogue pedal having moving and more parts than a digital e.g a resistor, flow gate etc comparred to just a microchip what do you think isd going to happen to all those components over time[/quote]

None of those parts move! The only part that moves in a wah pedal is a potentiometer.

[quote name='lemoley' post='56901' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:59 AM']- i bet the computer made part in the digital lasts longer and sounds better in a coulpe of years than the many man made parts in a analogue pedal which will need replacing[/quote]

The parts in analogue and digital pedals are all manufactured by machines.

[quote name='lemoley' post='56901' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:59 AM']trust me man when i first started playing and i knew nothing about pedals etc i bought all analogue pedals as they tend to be cheaper than digital ones and all of them sounded either crappy or not as good as their digital counter-parts - even the Crybaby i had was a night-mare[/quote]

No, I don't trust you, you don't know what you're talking about!

Alex

[quote name='lemoley' post='56884' date='Sep 7 2007, 11:35 AM']the reason i prefer Digital over Analogue is that imo the said effect sounds alot better and also you tend not to have any problems with them due to there being no moving parts that could potentially break or need replacing etc...[/quote]

I think you misunderstand the difference between analogue and digital electronics - sounds like you're comparing pure electronics and electronics with electromechanical parts.

I have never come across custom digital pedals. Digital sounds no better than analogue - both can be great depending on implementation. Analogue pedals are much easier to fix than digital pedals and in my experieince less likely to break in the first place.

Alex

Cool! What's the path length? Have you considered using floor, wall or corner loading to improve the apparent mouth size?

Alex

And also the increased distortion from speakers being driven hard adds overtones that tend to be heard as 'punch'.

Alex

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='56264' date='Sep 5 2007, 10:32 PM']I'm using terms like 'SPL' and 'Punch' to get across an impression to anyone interested that what I am talking about is that 'thump' (how many untechnical/technical terms can I mix up here) that you get when a kick drum is put through a half decent PA. It may not be an exact term but I've had equipment that recreated that 'effect' even at moderate volume![/quote]

Yep, that's definitely a compressed bass guitar sound. Also not much output in the true lows, so something that's rolling off heavily below about 70Hz - i.e. a typical old 2x10" combo.

Alex

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='56235' date='Sep 5 2007, 08:42 PM']However, there is a semi-serious side for me as I want to see if I can recreate the punch (SPL) that I have had in the past from a 250w 2x10 combo that I appear to be failing to get with amplifiers delivering 500w+ and speaker arrays out-numbering/out-sizing what I used in the past.[/quote]

Sounds to me like you've gone from a rig with more midrange and natural compression to a rig with a more open and full bottomed sound. Punch is most definitely not SPL.

If a 250W 2x10" combo did it for you in the past then it can again. But instead of a combo, get a lightweight 2x10" cab and a lightweight head. Add a compressor pedal if need be.

Alex

Awesome! Their first album still blows me away, I don't think Sting has ever bettered it.

Alex

I would also consider making a digital recording of a bassline and then playing that sample through the rigs as well as playing an actual bass. This will remove playing inconsistencies from the test.

Alex

Some test tones recorded onto CD or played by laptop and an SPL meter will make all the difference when it comes to comparing rigs. If you fail to do this the best rig will always seem to be the one with the most gain.

Would be interesting to choose one preamp section and one cab as your default set-up and then see how loud each power amp section can go whilst staying clean. Make sure you use a big cab to do this so you don't reach the cab's limits before the amp runs out of steam.

Alex

Another!

Bootsy Collins & Bernie Worrell (who's the bassist?)

Alex

And another: Pino Palladine & ?uestlove

Alex

I totally agree with all of the following:

John Bonham / John Paul Jones
George Porter Junior & Joseph "Zigaboo" Modeliste
Tim Commerford & Brad Wilk
Chuck Rainey/Bernard "Pretty Boy" Purdie
Paul Jackson and Mike Clark
Benny Benjamin and James Jamerson
David Garibaldi & Rocco Prestia
Larry Graham & Greg Errico
Flea & Chad Smith

50% of one to add: Jaco & Peter Erskine (Invitation)
A rather leftfield one: Dimebag Darrell (yes, he was a guitarist) & Vinnie Paul
Geezer Butler & Bill Ward
Bernard Odum & Clyde Stubblefield
Bootsy Collins & Jabo Starks

And one that I cannot believe has been missed - Gentlemen, you should be ashamed!

The Legendary Barrett Brothers

Alex

Poplar is a nice resonant bodywood. However, it doesn't go well with clear finishes, not the prettiest of timbers. It's cheap and easy to work. Not hugely dissimilar to alder.

Alex

1996: I started out with an all-valve sealed 15" combo, Traynor YBA-2B Bassmate, a spectacular 20W beast!

1997: Then a solidstate ported whizzer 12" combo, Peavey Sessionbass + 112MB, 200W.

1999: Then a valve/ss preamp, SWR Grand Prix, with ss power amp, Mackie M1400, into two Acme Low B-2s, 1000W.

2004: Change from Class AB to Class H+SMPS power amp, QSC PLX 3002, 2000W.

2007: Change from valve/ss preamp to solidstate Class A preamp, Avalon U5.

Can't believe how great this rig sounds!

Alex

Very nice indeed! I note the pickup location is similar to Sadowsky Moderns and Ken Smiths - how did you decide on that?

Alex

I actually use my digital camera, a Fuji S9500 (bridge/SLR), with excellent results. I record the rehearsals as a video and then pull the audio track off with mediacoder. You might like to try experimenting with digital camera's video/audio recording functions, it can work amazingly well! More modern minidisc players transfer via USB, otherwise look at the various stereo MP3 recorders by Zoom, M-Audio, etc.

Alex

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='55669' date='Sep 5 2007, 12:13 AM']The cab is an 8 ohm cab rated at 160w and I think, using it with my Hartke on it's own, I was putting more like 200w into it![/quote]

That would be unlikely to blow the speakers unless you were constantly clipping the amp (causing increased average power and thus thermal damage) or expecting too much bottom from a small cab (causing overexcursion and thus mechanical damage). As you were using a single 2x10" with a 200W head for what looks like a fairly rocking covers gig, both problems probably happened. It wasn't really an issue of too much power for your cab so much as an issue of not enough SPL (power x speaker sensitivity) capability from your rig resulting in pushing it too hard - like driving a car permanently in the red.

The speakers in the Backline are unlikely to be as good as even Eminence Alpha 10s (their cheapest 10" woofer) which cost about £25 each from Blue Aran. Will the resale on the Backline even justify that cost? Dubious, methinks...

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Here's some good info from Jerrold Tiers (ex-Ampeg engineer) to help you diagnose what went wrong:

"If the head is rated anywhere within reason of the speaker power rating, there should be no problem. That would be within say 2x the speaker rating, maybe 3x.

DC certainly can be an issue for speakers, as it pushes the voice coil out of the magnet gap. That leaves part of the coil un-cooled allowing it to overheat. In a gig situation, you'd not notice anything until the speakers fail.

As I recall, some Hartke amps had an odd protection scheme that could potentially produce DC if it was not working right.

If you still have one of the dead speakers (the actual driver) you might look at it. Cut around the outside of the cone, and also cut around the threated cloth "spider" that is cemented to the front of the magnet. Snip the two wires and lift out the cone (if it will come out, it may be stuck in the magnet).

Now, look at the voice coil, the coil of wire that was sticking into the magnet.

if the coil is over-heated or burned-looking, possibly has shed some wires that are now loose, it was probably over-powered.

If there is a blackened ring around both ends of the coil, it likely got a lot of lows, and was over-powered.

If there is a pretty clear blackened ring around ONE end of the coil, where it is blackened etc, then I would tend to suspect DC that pushed the coil out of the magnet "gap" on that side.

If it looks perfect, except for loose wires at the end, or other damage to the end, then it probably was hit with lows it could not handle, and the voice coil was banging on the magnet backplate."

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Actually, I've just thought of a good option. Buy a couple of Eminence Beta or Basslite 10"s and put them in your cab. Whilst that's keeping you running build a BFM Omni 10 cab and once complete then shift the woofers over to that. Then throw away the Backline (firewood?)

Alex

I'm currently using Sennheiser HD280 Pro - they're quite new to me but are proving very clear though somewhat lean on the bottom - it's all there, just not a lot of girth. As with all monitoring it's a question of knowing your monitors be they speakers or headphones. Lots of isolation so great for tracking vocals.

I use Sennheiser PX100 for portable use which aren't so transparent through the mids and highs, clear yet forgiving, but much fuller on the bottom. Excellent value for money.

Alex

[quote name='Pbassred' post='55443' date='Sep 4 2007, 06:12 PM']You didn't list "Thumb only" as an option. Surly that's quite different from fingers.[/quote]

Does anyone here just use their thumb?

I only use that which is permanently attached to my wrist to excite the strings, but I vary between conventional fingerstyle, thumb plucking, slapping and strumming.

Alex

Good explanation. One thing to correct:

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='55392' date='Sep 4 2007, 04:56 PM']If it's 4 ohm cab with a capacity of 400w, then any amp you consider shouldn't really put out more than that power at that rating.[/quote]

For a cab rated at 400W I'd recommend an amp of between 200W and 800W into that impedance. Less than 200W won't cause any problems, you just won't be able to play quite as loud before your amp runs out of power. More than 800W and your cab is unlikely to go any louder due to power compression and you run the risk of damage if you push it too hard.

The more power you put into a speaker, the more it distorts. Although this distortion is subtle during normal use, exceed the speaker's capabilities and the distortion hugely increases. This big increase in distortion (it often is termed 'farting') is a warning sign that if you continue to push the speaker this hard then damage may occur. Musical instrument and pro audio speakers are designed to give this warning distortion well before they suffer damage, unlike hi-fi speakers which die very quickly if you push them into distortion.

Alex

Am getting there! Have just overdubbed various distorted bass tracks to fatten things up on one song and also added shaker and tambourine tracks. Once I've finished off the vocals I'll do some rough mixes and upload them!

Alex

Which QSC power amp is it? Some require quite a hot preamp output voltage to drive them to full volume.

Alex

I have bought a tambourine!

Alex

Looking good!

Alex

The first to come to mind is the Read Custom Purity - sadly discontinued. Or the Kern - likewise... Eden Navigator, Aguilar DB-659 or 680, SWR Interstellar Overdrive, Warwick Quadruplet? How about the Sansamp RBI or RPM for a cheaper alternative?

This may help: [url="http://www.basstasters.com/preamps/"]http://www.basstasters.com/preamps/[/url]

Alex