Tío

23 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

Plek happens with no strings present - it’s there to get perfectly level and crowned frets which is more accurate than doing it by hand.

 

The tension will even out across the neck and remember a well set up bass has the E and G string at a slightly different height to the A and D.

 

If it’s something that concerns you you can buy the perfectly balanced string sets, but I have never felt the need to. I have used heavy and extra heavy gauge through to standard gauge on the same sandberg bass and aside from setting it up slightly differently there has never been a problem.

 

A twisting warp will be very very rare indeed as opposed to a bow, especially in a Sandberg for either, but wood is still a cellular entity and once alive so it can happen, it has been reported in even the carbon fibre Status necks.

 

In short - I think you will be fine 

Yes, the Plek process happens without strings, but the initial scan is taken under string tension, so that after Pleking and when tension is applied, the neck is level. 

In any case, I’m going to ask Sandberg to use my preferred gauge (45-105) as a base tension to start with and to send my bass strung with the aforementioned.

On 29/07/2021 at 04:56, Cuzzie said:

@Tío I would defo go for vibration treatment - I think it makes a definite difference if you can afford it - it’s a very difficult thing to describe, it’s more of a feel, but if you think of wood being organic and even after felling the tree the molecules settle, water content drops, it matures etc. (This is all actually scientifically proven) then it makes complete sense - certainly my MarloweDK has something else compared to non treated TT’s (not that they were bad)

 

@redbandit599 is not wrong in what he says above, BUT……….the caveat is what is the rest of your platform?

If you have a sound you like with preamps, pedals, amp etc. The Delano’s May fight it less, and I mean that in a positive way on either side.

If for example you are using effects to create extra punch, then black labels and dialling back or dropping stuff may be the way to go.

 

As I said before I haven’t used the black labels with pedals and preamps - it was straight in, aside from the preamp on the DarkHawk, but having used super hot pick ups in the Haüssel’s, G&L MFD range and Seymour Duncan Hotstack custom shop 51p - if they are tooooooo hot it does require a complete re-tinker compared to another bass you have, which if you are swapping basses can be a massive ballache unless you are midi, stomp etc and have a patch saved for each one.

The black labels sit above Delano’s in punch, but slightly less output than the super hot ones out there.

I don’t play slap bass really at all, but, the Blacklabels made me want to thumb slap a lot - Classic song for it would be RATM take the power back - it would eat it up. I am sure they could do gentler as well, but that was the feeling I got.

 

Sorry it is a bit rambling, but it’s so hard to describe.

 

You won’t go wrong either way, but at least you will have eyes and ears open to whatever you decide hopefully

Cuzzie,

You seem to know your stuff or have an educated opinion.

I opened up another thread “Pleking with diffierent string gauges”

From your experience, does it make a difference if a bass is Pleked with 40-100 gauge strings when you will be using 45-105? I did the math and there is about 12.5% more tension with 45’s over 40’s  

Also, the difference between tension on either side of the neck is greater with 45’s.

Example; for the low side E and A strings vs the high side D and G strings there is about 3.5% more tension on the high side with 40’s and 8.5% more tension on the high side with 45’s.

Will this 12.5% increase in tension and the increased percent of tension on the high side cause the neck to warp differently enough to be significant?

Should I ask Sandberg to Plek my bass with 45-105’s?

Should Sandberg be asking me what gauge I use? 

Thanks,

Tio

According to D’addario’s string tension chart, a set of 4 string Pro-Steels, for a 34” scale bass, exert the following pressures.

Gauge 40 to 100.        Gauge 45 to 105

40 = 33.8 lbs.              45 = 41.9 lbs

60 = 43.7 lbs.              65 = 47.3 lbs

80 = 40.5 lbs.              85 = 44.9 lbs

100 = 34.4 lbs.            105 = 37.3 lbs

______________________________________

Total 152.4 lbs.            171.4 lbs

       69.77 Kilos.           77.9 kilos

A 12.467% increase in total pressure from 40 - 100 gauge to 45 - 105 gauge.

With the 40 - 100 set; the combined pull of the G and D strings = 77.5 lbs or 35.22 kilos.

                                      The combined pull of the A and E strings = 74.9 lbs or 34 kilos.

This is approximately a 3.5 % more pressure on the high side compared to the low side.

With the 45 - 105 set; the combined pull of the G and D strings = 89.2 lbs or 40.45 kilos.

                                     the combined pull of the A and E strings = 82.2 lbs or 37.36 kilos. 

This is approximately an 8.5 % more pressure on the high side compared to the low side.

I’m no math wiz, and I only plugged in the numbers, and there are probably many more numbers to be plugged into this equation, but a total pressure increase of 12.467% from 40’s to 45’s and an 8.5% increase in tension from one side to the other for 45’s  compared to a 3.5% increase for 40’s, must somehow influence the neck as it’s Pleked.

Wether Pleking with the correct tension taken into account makes a real difference; I don’t know, but I’m convinced that Pleked is better not Plekes.

1 hour ago, itu said:

I think that the system excludes strings in the process, so you shouldn't be worried. After getting your instrument back you should restring it with a fresh set.

I was under the impression that the Pleking machine took the initial measurements with the neck under string pressure to account for bow and warp that the pressure causes, and then makes the final adjustments without strings.

If this is true, then string gauge should make a difference on how it influences the neck.

How much????

Should a bass or any other instrument be Pleked with the same gauge strings that will be used on the instrument?

I recently ordered a Sandberg TM4; Sandberg Pleks their basses and they come stock with 40-100 gauge and I plan on using 45-105 gauge.

Should I ask them to string it with my preferred gauge before Pleking? If so, shouldn’t they be asking me this question?

This may be splitting hairs, but I’m thinking that Pleking is supposed to be precise enough to to be splitting hairs.

Thanks,

Tio

Thank you everyone!

I've decided to stick with the Delano's, but I thought about it long and hard.

I really love Ida Nielson, but I'm not in love with her sound.

I prefer Julia Hofer's tone and she has basically the same setup I ordered Alder/Rosewood/Roasted Maple Neck/Delano Pups

The exception being that her bass is a TT4 and mine is a TM4, and her bass is aged, so in theory, it would have come with Sandburg's vibration treatment which I'm now weighing.

Anyone else want to comment on that?

Julia's other Sandberg bass is a TT5 Superlite that she also chose Delano's for, but there's no vibration treatment.

Tio

SirMoxie,

I can't agree with you more. Why would Sandberg put an inferior pickup in their basses?

But, they put both pickups and more in different basses, so neither one should be inferior, just different.

There is no upcharge if I want to switch to Black Labels, so I'm still on the fence. 

By the way, the inventor of Moxie was from Maine which is where I'm from.

Cuzzie,

It looks like you've done your homework, so I agree with you too.

You certainly prefer Black Labels' but you also don't bash, and even say good things about Delano's; coming to their defense when someone described them as being "DEAD".

Therein lies the rub. Two great pickups either of which I'd probably be very satisfied with, but one which I would be just a little bit happier with for my style, "and I want that one".

O well!

I'll be talking to the Sandberg rep. soon and he also seems to like Black Labels'. There's no upcharge, so there's no conflict of interest.

He also leans towards the Vibration Treatment which is another can of worms.

Thank you for your input guys. It seems I can't go wrong either way.

On 07/02/2019 at 02:08, Cuzzie said:

Well.... I find it hard to see Delano’s as being dead (you may have had a duff set), big chance it could be a dead instrument - did the sound change with a pick up change?

So all in sandberg made basses.....

I have played Delano’s in a VS, VM, 48, VT, TT.

I’ve played original Sandberg pick ups in a VS and a MarloweDK (passive)

Haussels in a TT (passive)

Black labels in a TT and TM2 

 

Now this pick up is very subjective, for example plenty like but I do not like turdstrand pick ups, but as a generalisation.

Delano - yes more hifi, but not sterile in anyway, transparent in a good way with plenty of oomph.

Haussel - Little German manufacturer, verry meaty and quite hot mid focussed jazz pick up, neck solo’d it’s as close to a P as a jazz pick up will get.

Old Sandberg - more vintage sounding, less output, very very nice pick ups. Especially nice if you like pedals with preamps in as they are hot enough to be good on their own, but not too hot that they do not then fight with a pedal to over power it if that makes sense. Very easy to sculpt a sound.

Black labels - blew my socks off - it’s like the Old Sandberg’s with More chutzpah, very punchy, great sound - sort of like all the best bits of the aforementioned ones rolled into a pick up. Played a TM2 before and after - transformed it.

There is a basic guide - I would go for it, I think they are great.

Happy for a PM if you want to further dissect the discussion.

Cuzzie,

Are the Black Labels really that good?

I just ordered a TM4 with the stock Delano's. Alder/Rosewood/Rstd. Maple Neck

I still have time to modify my order since they are 6 months out.

I play in a small church setting and am just starting to slap. So far, no one has been offended at my attempts to play more percussively, but in reality there are only a few songs that would be conducive to slap. I often us my volume control to swell in hammered on notes to emulate a cello, so I'm looking for a bass that can do funky and mellow.

Should I stick with the Delano's of go for the Black Labels?

Anybody else want to chime in?

Thanks,

Tío