Moving Pictures

On 19/06/2020 at 13:52, Baloney Balderdash said:

About 2mm at 12th fret for the low E string side (slightly more for 5 or 6 strings with low B), and slightly less for the highest/thinnest string side of the fretboard, seems to be a pretty standard medium/lower medium kind of string action.

I have a feeling that that's about the consensus for what might be the most common kind of action for people to prefer on a bass, though the official Fender guide states slightly higher numbers (even if not really by that much though), and also depending on fretboard radius, the lower radius the higher action is recommended.

When that is said though I have actually found that surprisingly small differences in string action height can have a surprisingly big impact on how it will feel to play, relatively speaking. 

Other than that, beside of course personal preferences for what feels and sounds right to each individual bass player, frets that haven't been perfectly leveled will require higher action to avoid fret buzz, as well as the higher tension the strings are under the lower they will go too, since the tension to some extend will limit the maximum vibration curve of the strings. 

My personal preferred setting actually happens to match pretty closely to what the general consensus of preferred string action seems to be too, I seem to prefer almost spot on, perhaps ever so slightly bellow, 2mm at 12th fret, low E string side (which is actually an F# at the moment, but that's really irrelevant for the point of this), and with my main bass that's actually pretty much the same measurement as for 17th fret, as the corresponding angle  between the strings and the fretboard happens to be pretty flat on that one, for the thinnest/highest string on the opposite side the number is about 1,3mm or so (I think that might actually be a bit bigger difference between thick/low and thin/high string side than usually recommended, but I didn't actually measure anything when I set up the bass, just went by what felt right for me).

I actually prefer pretty much the same kind of action for electrical guitar as well.

Seems to give me just a slight hint of resistance, since I'd like to be able to actually feel when I fret a note, while still making it a pretty effortless action, and just exactly high enough for relatively heavy emphasized picking not too easily resulting in choking the picked string(s) against the frets, while still allowing for a certain degree of controlled fret clank. 

So, yes, a bit above 2mm low/thick string side at 12th fret is usually what the standard guides says, and then about 4mm or so lower for the high string side, I have a feeling though that most people actually go for slightly lower than those standard recommendations, but in the end it is really a very personal thing for the individual player, and even individual bass, some people would actually prefer what most would perceive as insanely way too high action, and other's what most would consider as insanely way too low action, without for that matter anyone really being wrong. 

Lower is not always better, what feels and sounds right to you, fits your way of playing and your particular bass the best, is the only thing that is truly just the absolutely perfect right string action.

I guess one universal thing that will almost always be true though regarding string action is that ideally the action of the individual strings should follow a curve corresponding to the radius of the fretboard, but tilting ever so slightly towards the side of the fretboard with the highest/thinnest string. 

 

Edit!!!:

Forgot to mention that neck relief will influence on how low action you can get as well, more relief will allow for the strings to vibrate more freely, usually allowing lower action without fret buzz, though more relief will also cause the action of the strings around the middle of the neck to feel higher.

My main actually got a really minimal amount of relief, and as said pretty spot on 2mm action, perhaps even ever so slightly bellow, at 12th fret, low E string side, and about 1,3 mm high G string side, without causing any issues for me whatsoever, I could probably even go slightly lower, if that was what I truly wanted and how I liked it (though that doesn't actually happen to be the case), and that is a super cheap budget bass, an Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass to be exact, and, believe it or not, but the fretwork on my 5 string Mikro is even more perfect, not to say actually absolutely dead on perfect, you would think they had pleked it at the factory, though I am quite sure that didn't happen, as I bought it from new and wasn't charged any extra money, if I wanted I could get insane low action on that one without any issues, guess they were just exceptionally lucky with the fret applying procedure on that neck.

I guess I have just been lucky with those two basses though, quality control is usually all over (or rather more or less completely absent) with these kind of cheap budget basses, so you might get a truly great bass, that by cheer luck and accident got the best pieces of wood out of the random pile they happened to have in stock at the factory at that particular point and for that particular production, assembled by a guy who just happened to get particular lucky with doing a great job on this particular one, and for some reason payed particular extra attention to just that bass, and the fret applying procedure just by a strike of luck first shot turning out perfect, and miraculously staying that way too, or you might get the exact opposite, a piece of pure utter useless crap, which actually did happen to me as well, when I took the risk buying me a second brand new 4 string Mikro, one of the GSRM20B ones, with black hardware and in the Weathered Black finish, from Ebay, cause while it did in fact look awesome it was right out unplayable, there were buzz all over the neck, no matter how I adjusted it, unless I would have found it reasonable to live with a 10mm  high string action at 12th fret or something totally ridiculous like that, makes me think it might not only had been that they had been terribly unlucky with applying the frets on that neck, but that there by all likelihood was something horribly wrong with the neck and/or fretboard it self in the first place, that one should definitely never had left the factory, and wouldn't if proper quality control had actually been a real thing with these basses.

Ironically the factory setup on the two really great Mikro Basses I got was absolutely horrendously bad and ultimately completely useless, whereas had the horribly malfunctioning hack job one actually worked as it was supposed to the setup done on it from factory would actually had been surprisingly decent, which, when you begin to think the implications of that properly though, makes it not only ironic but also really really odd and hard to make any sense of whatsoever, though I guess it does support my point about the randomness of the production of these basses. 

Anyway, to round off this whole off topic escapade and derailing line of stray thoughts I somehow got myself intertwined with, actually most of the time when buying cheap budget instrument in fact you will most likely get a quite decent one, but once in a really rare while you can get exceptionally lucky and hit a truly great one, that could be turned into a genuinely awesome instrument with an upgrade of the pickups and perhaps some of the electronics and hardware as well, or you could get really unlucky and get a truly pure utter crap one that isn't even really capable of actually playing, and with no way of fixing it that will be worth even half the effort, just being an absolute ultimate waste of wood, time and money. 

Seeing as this thread was recently resurrected I’ll add some thoughts. I really liked this post as there was a lot good information here. It got me curious about my setups. I use feeler gauges and start with Fender specs as a starting point. Ibanez specs for the 5-strings. Apparently I end up just below 2mm at the 12th fret for string height. I never measured that before, just going by feel there. It is consistent on all my basses. Relief, depending  on the bass, as measured at the 7th fret and using a capo on the first fret and pressing down on the 21st fret is set at either .25mm or .30 mm. That seems to depend on string type and neck specifications. 
 

I’ll just add another vote for using numbers to dial it in. After that, definitely use feel to tweak it. I use to do it all by feel but I found measuring helped me quickly identify issues and resolve them. 
 

The Yamaha was moved on recently but still rocking the Ibanez when I need a five string. 

Great basses! Nice looking specimen.  I remember wanting one back in the day. I hope you thoroughly enjoy it. 

I have to echo the sentiment of Sunburst and NM for me. They are all pretty nice in their own way and you won’t lose with any of those choices. Interesting video and I also enjoyed your playing. Great song choices. 

5 hours ago, barrycreed said:

Boxer bass anyone?

This is the route I went and I really don’t like most Fender PJs (Ultra and Elite the exception). I like this one because of the 3 way switch which behaves the same as the one on the BB414 I had. It may end up with a stacked Jazz pickup to eliminate the 60 cycle hum. 
 

Another option I haven’t seen if you want a bass to cop the Precision and Jazz sounds would to be source a Fender (Stu Hamm) Urge II. Hard to find but worth the effort. I have a friend that plays one and it is very versatile without being complex. 

2 hours ago, BillyBass said:

Is this the answer for every PJ? Or are there drawbacks? Like more noise?

Generally speaking the Jazz pickup on most PJs will have some level of 60 cycle hum. One option that can work well but requires additional funds is to replace the J with a stacked pickup or a humbucking J style pickup. There are a number of options available to you there. If you can find a Fender with Noiseless pickups that is another good option. The version 5 Noiseless are quite good. I don’t care for version 3. 
 

Regardless, I agree with Doctor J about the Jazz pickup height. It normally needs to be closer to the strings than the P pickup.

Beautiful!

Thanks! I’ll put that on my list of options. 

Beautiful looking bass. Congratulations! I hope it serves you well for many years. 

How hefty is that bridge? I just picked up a black and maple Players Precision. 

Ibanez has a medium scale 5-string that seems to get good reviews. It is called the Mezzo. 

I also don’t agree with modding the MIM bass right away. I’ve always found that living with a bass for a while helps decide which upgrades, if any, are required. The MIMs are actually pretty good and may surprise you. Personally I would go for the MIA based on the fact it ticks most of your boxes. Otherwise look at some of the alternatives suggested here. I’m very curious to see what you end up with. 
 

5 hours ago, martthebass said:

Just doing a bit of bass fettling so decided to do a weigh in session....I certainly didn’t like my weight.....

In ascending order.

Dano Longhorn - 5.75lb

JMJ Mustang- 8lb

Mikey Way Mustang - 8.25lb

Status CW Sig - 8.75lb

Ric 4003 - 9lb

EBMM Sterling 4H - 9lb

Pretty much what I expected. I have played just one Sterling that was very light. I couldn’t afford it at the time which was a shame as it was a bit of a unicorn. Nice list of basses. 

I try for light weight, good sounding basses. I’ve had my fill of heavy after a shoulder issue thanks to a car accident. Having said that, if the balance isn’t there even a light bass will kill the shoulder. I can go to 4.08kg (9lbs) with a properly balanced bass even though I prefer 3.6kg. Most of my basses are 3.6kg or less. Most are Fender and it took me a good long while to find light and balanced within that brand. 

18 hours ago, mcnach said:

 

It does sound like some flavour of a Stingray.

 

It's passive, with a Jazz style wiring like the old OLPs used to be, where you get a separate volume for each coil. I don't find that particularly useful, although I often play it with just the neck facing coil and rolling the volume down a bit. Nice and fat and funky. I might rewire it so that I get both coils in series too, which is an option I really like on Stingray style basses.

 

The string spacing is a bit on the narrow side, and I prefer wide necks/spacing, but I got used to it.

Sounds wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. 

I like how that looks. I never worry about resale if the bass meets my needs, sounds great and feels good. It does seem like HB is doing good things lately.  Does it sound as good as it looks? Does it have its own sound or does it cop the SR sound reasonably well? 

Nice to hear your story. We’ve been using a silent stage for 17 years now. Definitely had a few rough spots when we first went this route but it is well worth it and for all the reasons you posted. 

Rhonda Smith played the MIA model for a short bit. 

I picked up a red one. Pretty smitten with it. I guess that makes me gullible as well 😉  Seriously nice player though. 

Adds character. After playing for a few hours you won’t notice it especially if the bass is a real player. 

I can relate to many of the posts in this thread. I intentionally avoided them for two decades. Couldn’t stand the look and still don’t think they are the most attractive basses. Now I have three of them amongst the others. I find they are way more versatile than many believe and it truly comes down to string choices, EQ and the ability to use multiple techniques (pick, fingers, hand positioning, etc). They really shine in ensemble playing and I have used them in jazz to metal. I am also one of those players that followed James Jamerson’s advice to play each note like you mean it and that helps.  

Great looking bass. I’ve always wanted to play one. I hope you enjoy it for a good many years. 

On 17/05/2021 at 07:35, Sarah5string said:

I'm currently obsessed with the Drop down tuning DRs. They sound great on my Dean 5 string which I keep 1/2 step down. I barely have to adjust the tuning at all and the intonation is spot on.

I tried these on a 5-string once and I thought they were pretty good. I tried Dean Markley Helix after that and stuck with those until the were discontinued. I always come back to DR. 

On 07/05/2021 at 06:57, Lfalex v1.1 said:

I could be tempted by Cobalts, but regular Slinkys feel like fret-eating cheese graters to me.

Cobalts are the most aggressive strings I have used. They aren’t as harsh feeling as regular Slinky’s but I do think they sound better. YMMV of course. In the end not for me. 

I’m more of a DR Hi Beams/Fat Beams type but I can’t understand how you can have a top 10 for something that is highly subjective. At least one of my favourite flats made the list (DTF). 

I’ll second the Ibanez EHB basses. Yamaha is another good option for light weight, good sounding basses. That pretty much covers the 5-strings.  I also have a couple very light weight Fenders. It took many weeks to find the right basses. All of those weigh under 8lbs with the EHB and my Sandblasted Jazz at or below 7lbs.