Eight

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='391614' date='Jan 26 2009, 12:12 PM']Two wrongs don't make a right, etc. [/quote]
Lol. Good point.

I must admit, I never thought of doing it that way. Clever.

The alternative would be to run the VSTs over a local network (if you have one). E.g. a simple crossover cable, or through a router and something like FX Teleport (http://www.fx-max.com/fxt/product.html)

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='391575' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:50 AM']+1.

I'm a bit tired of the 'You're either for us or against us!' vibe coming from some people.

Of course there's value in it. Some people do things differently, s'all.[/quote]
Yet for the third time since I joined this board in December, I've seen the suggestion that studying music theory makes you stale or w***y (which is my new favourite way of describing it).

Which is a little insulting.

I was going to say that its a shame we lost track of the original bit of the question which asked how important it is [b]*to you*[/b]. But I accept that I'm partly responsible for that.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='391560' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:39 AM']I haven't written off music theory. I've studied music theory myself. I find it interesting![/quote]
Ah ok - sorry if I made an assumption about you there.

[quote]I maintain that learning to read isn't for everyone. Call me a quitter or whatever, but I have enough challenges in my life without having to go home and beat myself up over not being able to read dots![/quote]
If you don't want to then to be honest, that's good enough for me. I do read and love working that way; but that's me. I'm not trying to sell you anything.

[quote]I do think the more theory and technical ability you have, the more likely you are to slip into w***ery. You do it because you can. I don't think its a coincedence that classically untrained musicians appeal to my pub rock sensibilites. The more technically focussed genres (I count Jazz and Progressive Metal in this club) do nothing for me.[/quote]
I just can't blame music theory for that and it isn't logical to me to blame the downfall of musicians on their study. It seems far more plausible that when they achieved the ability to do so, then they followed their heart and produced something we don't like. Which is fair enough.

[quote name='AM1' post='391556' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:37 AM']Similarly, yesterday I bought the Bass Tab White Pages. There are some songs in there that I don't know - but was able to play straight off the score. Same goes for the songs I do know, it was quicker to play straight off the dots.[/quote]
Hahahah - I bought that same book last week.

Had the same experience with it actually.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='391540' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:20 AM']No doubt there are a small number of classically trained musicians I like out there. There's got to be. But they're few and far between.[/quote]
Since bands don't publish their "training" on the album sleeve notes, its pretty hard to know who has done what and what influence its had. The ones I picked out are bands I like that I happen to have read about - or in the case of Nightwish was lucky enough to get to speak to briefly.

All people are saying here is that there's not evidence to write-off music theory; just as now most people don't write-off musicians just because they haven't studied it.

Edit: As someone alluded to earlier, its much "cooler" to have had no music training and people are happy to state this. My personal opinion is that outside of classical music and jazz, people are not so inclined to say that they've studied music theory or are classically trained.

You won't like them - but I know at least three members of Nightwish have formally studied music and music theory (either at conservatoires or college/uni).

(Thanks to Vic for reminding me of that one)

Do you happen to like Apocalyptica? All classically trained obviously.

Lol. I *will* find someone you like even if it kills me.

John Cale from The Velvet Underground? Pretty important in punk rock history and studied music at university.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='391525' date='Jan 26 2009, 11:07 AM']Thank you for proving my point.[/quote]
Because you don't like Radiohead then that proves your point? They're not exactly small time and his CV reads like a dream for most musicians.

What are you looking for here exactly? Define 'great' and I'll have another think.

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='391495' date='Jan 26 2009, 10:47 AM']Please point me in the direction of a formally trained musician who is currently producing great music.[/quote]
Great depends on your tastes but the first one I can think of - Jonny Greenwood from Radiohead. Classically trained. Not 100% what you mean by 'formally'.

Here's his intro from Wikipedia.

Jonathan Richard Guy Greenwood[1] (born 5 November 1971) is a BAFTA and Grammy-nominated musician and composer-in-residence for the BBC, best known as a member of English alternative rock group Radiohead. Greenwood is a multi-instrumentalist, but serves mainly as a guitarist and keyboard player. He is the younger brother of fellow Radiohead member Colin Greenwood. In addition to guitar and keyboard instruments he plays viola, xylophone, glockenspiel, ondes Martenot, banjo, harmonica and drums. He also does work on the electronic side of Radiohead, working on computer-generated sounds and sampling. He was ranked number 59 on Rolling Stone's "100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time".[2] Greenwood is the principal songwriter of a number of Radiohead's songs including "The Tourist," "Life in a Glasshouse" and "A Wolf at the Door."

What a nice guy - so easy to deal with.

And he sent the pedal out very quickly and safely packaged.

A star!

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='391207' date='Jan 25 2009, 08:39 PM']As an aside, I do believe the more technically proffecient and steaped in theory you become, the more w***y your music becomes. That's why so many technically great musicians are only liked by other musicians. They lose sight of what makes a great tune.[/quote]
Maybe their natural inkling was to make w***y music but it wasn't until they learned some theory that they understood how to do it?

I've never seen any evidence (beyond speculation) that a knowledge of music theory makes you play like a tit. It often surprises me when I come across videos / video lessons etc. from established metal (particularly thrash and black metal guitarists) as to how much theory they do seem to know. A personal example (which obviously counts for nothing, but interests me nonetheless) - my old guitar teacher many years ago could waffle on for hours about the theory behind a simple riff but when I went to see him gig, he bashed out old-school punk style.

As a side note, whilst I disagree with most of your points - I f'n hate jazz too.

Yup - Amplug.

No idea how good they are though. My local only sells the gu*tar models.

[url="http://www.dv247.com/invt/57462/"]http://www.dv247.com/invt/57462/[/url]

Just starting out so I really should be doing more than I am.

Yeah I feel guilty. But I start lesssons soon so that'll up the ante and force me to play more - I always hated playing in front of a teacher when you can't do something properly.

I want one of his basses so bad.

That punk rock battered bass is amazing. I can't play the intro to Sweet Child very well anyway so it'd be no great loss.

A friend of mine was just asking if I know of any unit that can play audio samples out and has footswitch triggers? Kinda like a row of switches that trigger a different sound sample - and some kind of bank switch thingy to move to another set of samples.

I know how he could do it using a laptop, audio interface and midi controllers, but was wondering if anyone has ever seen something similar in a portable unit?

I suppose I'd class myself as an advocate of reading notation and studying music theory; not a zealot - happy to leave people to do what they want really.

On the reading side, when paper is called for then I just plain prefer notation over tab. I love all the extra info (dynamics, rhythms etc.). Since I don't gig on any instrument, 90% of my song learning is done just for amusement - and after a day or two I'll probably never play that tune again. So I don't want to have to listen to the record ten thousand times to work out which bit of the song the tab "riff" refers to or what's being played and what the rhythms are. I don't need to commit that info to memory - being able to read the rhythm off the sheet is good enough.

I've still got so much theory I need to make time for - but every bit I learn gives me new insight. It helps me when I try to write something and if I'm looking at a favourite musician/band then it isn't enough for me just to play what they've written - I want to know exactly what they're doing, why they're doing it, what the effects are on the audience, how it all combines with the other instruments. etc. I'm the kind of guy who also tracks my favourite musicians back through their influences to get that little bit more info. I want to take all that I like about them and make that some small part of me. *I* can't do that just by listening, I need to apply some analysis to it.

*Phew* Bit of a release there.

I've always kinda liked punk (and psychobilly I lurve) but I'm really starting to get into noise punk lately.

Have the pre-major label White Zombie stuff, Big Black, Helmet, early Sonic Youth etc. on my playlist at the minute.

I wouldn't mind having a squizz at this thing that everyone is so keen on. :-)

Super_Mario_Bass - Oct 21 2007,

Chezz55 - Oct 25 2007

lobematt - Nov 26 2007

guyl - Apr 2 2008

acidbass - May 2 2008

five-string.co.u... - May 2 2008

queenofthedepths - May 24 2008

aceuggy - Jun 14 2008

AndyMartin - Oct 2 2008

juannycerveza - 13th Oct 2008

Eight - 22nd Jan 2009

If I remember rightly, you can enter yourself for any exam but I don't know the ins and outs e.g. where you would sit it, whether you'd be expected to organise your own room under regulated conditions etc. etc.

Might be worth ringing the exam board and talking to them about it. I'm sure things are in place for adult learners to do this.

I like it... and I know my mate (who is more into this kind of punk/rock than I am) would really like it. Seems a well-written song.

The only thing that grinded on me a little was that the two sets of vocals were a wee bit out of sync with each other. Not quite at the point of being an echo but not quite sounding like you're singing together. I don't agree with you that they're "woeful" though - that's too harsh.

Another +1 for Sennheiser.

I've had numerous pairs of HDs and they're great for everything from listening to mp3s to studio monitoring.

[quote name='Beedster' post='387121' date='Jan 21 2009, 08:31 AM']Um, haven't you read the papers recently? I've got friends whose businesses are thriving but despite this the benks are withdrawing their credit facilities.
Sorry to be blunt - and I haven't read the posts above as I'm in a rush[/quote]
We went through it all earlier. Those lucky folk who's bank love them are making a killing; if you're one of them then great.

~

I'm getting a bit sick of online shopping - if my favourite retailers haven't got an item then I've given up on searching the ten billion music retailers to find it. I'll buy something else. I've worked in web and eCommerce for a loooonnng time and the current situation and trends worry me. I'm almost at the point of saying Prosebass's prediction about everyone just buying from Thomann will come true.

Maybe things will all collapse and we'll end up with three sites on the internet for making purchases - Thomann for musical instruments; and eBay & Amazon for *everything* else.

But personally, I'm sick of the post office. Sick of failed deliveries and long delays before getting what I want - increasingly these days I'll look to a real shop instead.

I can't quite work out what we'd play but sod it, here's my band.

Nina Hagen - Vocals
Amanda Palmer - Piano/Keyboards
Johnny Ramone - Guitar
The ape from the Cadbury's advert - Drums