agedhorse

There have indeed been some documented issues with the brown colored new plugs from Neutrik, being exactly as Eich had experienced. 
 

A bigger problem has been some of the cheap knockoff plugs from Asia, their cost is irresistible to some cable manufacturers and they can damage the mating jacks too. 

10 minutes ago, nekomatic said:

From the fact that the cabs are secondhand and one socket is worse than the other, I’m very inclined to suspect that it’s those sockets that are bad. Maybe they’ve been repeatedly used with a non-genuine Speakon plug that has damaged them. The obvious thing to test would be whether you see any problem with a different cab. 
 

The good news is that it looks like it should be easy to remove the connector panels and replace the faulty connectors on the cabs. If you don’t fancy doing it yourself it shouldn’t be too expensive to have a tech do it. 

Maybe, but if the SpeakOn jacks are PCB mounted it's going to be more difficult and with a greater chance for a more thoroughly damaged speaker.

18 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

I ran sound at free festivals in my 20's. Turnarounds averaged 15mins but were very band dependant. You never knew what you were getting but the pro's were always easiest to work with. Steve Winwood turrned up with Traffic refused to go on stage 1 because of the sound and wandered across to our stage listened to the band I was mixing and asked to come on. Are you kidding me! . A total gentleman, no fuss: "I'll play and you make it sound as good as you can" The easiest band I ever had to mix for. They knew what they were doing, the onstage sound was great and all I really had to do was make it loud out front. They even said "thanks" at the end. Sometimes it isn't the sound guy.

Exactly the reason for my path in the industry, it’s much more pleasant working with seasoned pros in general. It also pays MUCH better. 

6 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

That may explain why so many seem to be interested more in the bass drum than anything else. Of course, the PA will be set up in an empty room, but the sound tech should have enough about themselves to realise that they need to boost the mids and do it before the concert starts. 

it depends very much on the level of sound techs and engineers you are working with. 

3 hours ago, LawrenceH said:

Nah 15 minutes is often how long it takes as an audience member to get served/go to the loo/go out for a quick cig in between bands!

 

Tbh though those are rarely the gigs where I have had or heard the most egregious issues. Rough and ready is fine, it's when they have no interest in improving the sound as they go within the realms of the possible. The process seems to be (rant time):

 

1. Get the drums huge as f**k, especially subby reverberant kick with a beater click that sounds like clipping. Add Phil Collins snare. But it's a funk band? Doesn't matter.

2 Sit a thin, heavily compressed vocal firmly on top.

3. Get something else (who knows what?) rumbling indistinctly through the subs (and subs only) to destroy any semblance of rhythmic tightness.

4. Sit back and chat to the lighting guy, scroll on phone, or visibly do nothing for the remaining 45 mins even though the actual music is sounding awful and you can't hear the guitar, keys and bass that between them are providing all harmonic context and melodic counterpoint.

5. (Optional) log on to the livesound subreddit and establish dominance.

6a (Very optional) belatedly notice that two of the instruments you can't hear are trading solos on what turns out to be the second-last song. Turn up the mids your preset had previously carved out until they're actually audible, in time for the solos to end.

6b. Leave it like that for the last song just to tantalise the audience with what might have been.

 

 

Once in a while though you get someone really good and it's an absolute joy to behold. Suddenly these compact line arrays sound fantastic, the instruments are all beautifully placed in the mix and the vocal is so perfectly balanced it makes you want to cry.

Clearly you need to play a better class of gig. 
 

I worked a lot of festivals where 15 minutes was the standard turnaround time between acts. A festival patch and good communication makes it pretty easy with just a line check and quick monitor mixes setup. 

11 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

For me one of the main factors is 15min changeovers. Even when the band set ups are the same it can be a challenge, throw in left handed drummer etc and even more so. Add in bands who take forever to pack gear up/set up, chaos abounds. I’d prefer 30mins from a performers point of view, would be interested how long people who do sound engineering would like.

Yet most audience members would prefer shorter than 15 minutes…

To clarify, I mostly handled international acts on the “Americas” side of the pond, both touring but later as the A1 (lead audio) in several “higher end” venues. The only UK tour I did was in the 1980’s with Taj Mahal, and I never encountered any issues. 
 

I stopped working dive type venues in the early 1980’s, realized early on that it would be impossible to make a living and raise a family. I mostly worked venues in the 1000-2500 cap range, in part because there’s respect built into that type of venue, but also because they tended to be union or union friendly facilities with clearly defined work (and safety) rules. My crew made it ~40 years without a reportable accident or injury. 
 

During this entire time, I designed pro audio and bass/guitar gear for some of the largest names in the industry during my downtime. Now that I’m retired from pro audio events, I design full time for Mesa Boogie and Gibson, It all goes hand in hand, I met others who had design “side hustles” while touring as well. The touring experience helps make good, real world, player friendly solutions for players. 

On 07/12/2025 at 10:54, Wolverinebass said:

It's because bass isn't valued. I now refuse to play a venue if I'm not able to use something that isn't a piece of crap. I've almost come to blows with a few sound engineers for them trying to screw with me. If anyone says "pre-eq DI only" I immediately harden my accent to "full on Taggart" and generally something said in that voice does tend to get a bit more co-operation.

 

Most live engineers are underpaid and as a result, don't give a toss. The ones who won't do what you ask when it's totally reasonable or do the exact opposite are the ones who I have massive problems with.

From this post, you must be a whole lot of fun to work with. Most players play a whole lifetime of gigs without getting “screwed” by sound engineers or coming to blows with a sound guy. 
 

I was a sound engineer (FOH) for 40 years working the international touring circuit mostly. The first time a player threatened one of the crew, they would get an introduction to the head of security, who quickly defused the situation by either compliance, or the act was cancelled. It almost never happened because this kind of behavior simply wasn’t tolerated at this level. 

Nothing screams immaturity like an act or its members throwing a “toddler temper tantrum”. 
 

On 08/12/2025 at 10:09, itu said:

Everything is different in Switzerland: I got a Mesa 400+ and a quality 4x10". One of the best rigs I've ever played. And chocolate, and cheese, and... 

Yup, the higher quality venues and the better acts generally end up with better backline. I don’t recall seeing junk more than a couple times a year at most, often it was really good gear. 

4 hours ago, mikeswals said:

Its a very grunty-tubey sounding amp, lots of ballsy character. Its got tons of power, and the low end sounds large. 

 

I also have a Bass 400 and a Strategy 8:88, and the focus of the 800D was to get that Bass 400/400+ character, and they did, I really like the sound if it.

The intent (at least my intent) was to go beyond the Bass 400+ with changes and feature set that make more sense to today’s players. 
 

I asked hundreds of players what they would like to see different on a reimagining, what features are now considered important or essential. The variable HPF was at the absolute top of the list, but so was the pre-post switchable DI, aux input, headphone output, and somewhat surprisingly the USB power port. Size and weight were also a common wishlist item.

Some of you here participated in that TalkBass thread and poll, there was a remarkable degree of agreement too. 

I don't know how convenient, but Surrey Amps has done excellent work for us for many years. Well qualified IMO.

https://surreyamps.co.uk/

59 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

As one who does both commercial and DIY designs I have to disagree. One major advantage to DIY is being able to build designs that are labor intensive without concern for the cost of the labor. There's a reason why high end outfits like Danley Sound Labs get top dollar/quid for their products, and it's not just the cost of the components, it's also the cost of the labor to build them. A DIY build of a sophisticated design can easily match the performance of a high end speaker costing $5k at a fifth that price or less. Where commercial has the advantage of economy of scale is in the low to midrange price range, but even there DIY can still be the better route. You can buy a simple ported or vented box or you can build one for the same price but loaded with premium drivers, whereas buying a commercial one with premium drivers would raise the cost considerably. Now that's not to say that all DIY designs are gems by any means, I see cringe worthy junk all the time. But to be fair I see plenty of cringe worthy commercial junk too. Maybe not in the $5k range but certainly in the $500 range. 

Perhaps if copying a proven design, but even then the economies of scale are against you. Now if there is no value assigned to labor, and you already have the tools, the gap is closer, but it's the "proven design" part of the equation that makes a difference IME. 

There's also the cost of developing the design and building prototypes that's often (conveniently ignored), but by ignoring even the minimal cost of design, labor, quality hardware, testing and wasted materials, then yes it can appear to be less expensive. 

There are also the DYI designs that, due to inexperience or lack of understanding, become "amp killers" due to not understanding reactive load limits in amps when it comes to crossover design, that bring hidden costs to the table. Yes, I run into this often enough, especially from the OCD crowd that thinks that every crossover needs multiple Zobel networks without any consideration for what ends up being lumped resonant tank circuits. 

This is just my experience, based on what I have seen over the (many) years.

1 hour ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Zero. 😮

http://hornresp.net/

While it's called hornresp it will do horns, transmission lines, and direct radiators both sealed and ported. 

https://xsim.software.informer.com/

The only catch is you need Z and FRD files, but those are available for most drivers.

Cost of the software is no issue. Learning how to use it is the hard part. Where going active is concerned there are full DSP plate amps at reasonable cost. Even if you go DIY with the amp the cost of DSP to go with it is about 10% of what it was 20 years ago. 

Not that I'd recommend trying to design your own for a one off build, the time it takes to acquire the skills required ranges from months for simple designs to years for complex designs. But there's no shortage of plans available from those who have done the work. 

 

Yet many of those plans are pretty poor when compared with established quality commercial designs. That’s been my experience overall. 
 

Economies of scale regarding quality commercial conditions makes it very difficult to build for less cost, especially if considering the used market. 

7 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

All true, but that argument applies equally to bass cabs.

Indeed it does, if you want it to look nice. 

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Curiosity, why are people who make their own excellent bass cabs buying ready made PA speakers?

Maybe because they can buy a proven solution without trying to reinvent the wheel?

I've heard some dreadful DIY PA gear in my career, yet the "builders" of that gear thought they were the greatest speakers since sliced bread. 

I designed commercial pro audio gear (including speakers) for a couple of the larger US and Italian manufacturers, and even with my in-house resources, it just didn't make sense unless those manufacturers were paying me to build prototypes or sample units. 

With high output basses, be sure you are using the gain switch in the low gain position. 

On 15/11/2025 at 06:45, Beedster said:

Many thanks Andy, especially appreciate the advice re impedance 🙏

 

Any plans to bring out a Subway combo?  

We've discussed it many times, but nothing concrete one way or the other.

Yes, the WD-800 will fit, but because it's 2" less deep you may need to fabricate some hardware. The width and height are identical and they share the same rack ears as well (the current WD rack kit mounting holes are slightly smaller than the old Walkabout, but can easily modified to work with either the WA or WD). 

The specific caution is because the WD is a lot more powerful than the original WA, I would recommend ONLY using it with the 8 ohm version of the cabinet, and set the amp to 2 ohm mode to scale down the power to 300 watts into 8 ohms (still more than the cabinet can handle but with the HPF set to about 40-50Hz, and the damping set to high, you should be ok).

Sometimes, placement to avoid reflections off of hard surfaces ends up being more important in the bigger picture. This is especially true in large venues with hard surfaces like arenas.

Just be aware that the actual radiation pattern is only loosely connected to the diameter.
 

The calculated pattern does not include the elements that modify the pattern, things like cone shape, depth, dust cap shape, material and coupling to the bobbin. 

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

True, but it is an easy way to implement Muting.

 

This is very true, In the UK, Profusion PLC are the ICEPower distributors in the UK. They will sell one unit.  However, I agree that you will be throwing away money if the unit is not faulty

It’s one way to implement muting, but not the most common way by far. It depends on what is happening throughout the amp as to how muting is accomplished and where. Sometimes, more than one method is used in an amp too. 

There are several ways to mute the amp. You want to be darn sure the module is really the problem or you will be throwing money away.

Also, beware of these modules sourced from China, there are counterfeits of this series coming from there. 

6 hours ago, Sean said:

Mesa/Boogie 400+ Update

 

I picked up my 400+ from The Amp Hospital today. It looks fabulous, it's all working perfectly, has a full set of chassis screws and just feels great. It's such a lovely thing to look at, handle, use, feel, smell, hear (it whirs, clicks and buzzes). 

 

The conversation covered how these are one of the 3 GOAT Bass Amps, how military spec and robust the 400+ is and that along with the B15 and SVT it's modelled by all the digital effects companies. But most of all that, as long as components are available, these things will last forever. The 400+ is one of my favourite products ever, to me it's up there with the Audi Ur-Quattro or Porsche 959. A lot of products that push the tech to extreme iterations fail, become white elephants but like the 959 and the Ur-Q, the 400+ is an absolute classic and a gem in all respects. 

 

Putting my money where my mouth is, the 400+ will be sitting atop a pair of Monaco cabs at two gigs this weekend. The GKs will be in the bench.

 

Warm it up and let it rip is what the manual should say 😉. 

 

In the words of Lt Col Bill Kilgore, "Get yer boys back, it's gonna be a big one!"

Excellent, this is why I always recommend the best service you can find… premium service, even at a premium price is always a better value.

If the bottom passive radiator is too close to the floor it will change the tuning of the cabinet. That’s (partly)what the feet are for.

5 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

VAT is a sales tax and in Europe/UK it is around 20%. 
 

It is some while since I was last in the USA but then, individual states levied their own sales tax. Annoyingly, the tickets price was without tax so you got a shock at the checkout. The last time I visited Sales tax was around 5-7%. That would have either been Nevada or Louisiana. 20 years ago. 

 

Taxes are higher in the UK than then USA but we generally have better public services. In Scandinavia, where taxes are higher, they have even better public services. Sadly taxation does not subsidise amplifier repairs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, everything gets paid for one way or the other. 
 

In the US, in most states, there is no sales tax on the labor. Only parts and materials are subject to it but only if the parts were purchased by the service business and sales tax wasn’t paid at that point. 
 

This is why comparing costs is so difficult, you pay more overall in taxes, but you have universal healthcare and we have an expensive mess run mostly by private insurance companies. 
 

Pick your poison… 

3 hours ago, Sean said:

The Brutal Truth About Owning Big Boxes of Bottles

 

My 400+ has been in The Amp Hospital in Guildford.

 

It costs £84 for an inspection and diagnosis. Then you get a full report and a quotation. Small repairs are done within the £84.

 

Here's the quotation for the work. Note that there's no valve replacement in this cost. 

 

You can buy a very good high end used solid state or Class D amp for £454.80 i.e. the £84 plus the repair charge.  

 

Slipknot sends its 400+ amps to the same place. The work and knowledge of Mesa products is what you pay for. 

 

I'm sure that I could get it done cheaper but this is a relic and it needs the TLC that Surrey Amps gives. 

 

One thing is for sure now, this thing is going out gigging to earn its keep.

 

The point of this post is, just understand what you're getting into before adopting one of these beasts.

 

 

@Beedster @agedhorsefor interest, Chris, Andy😉  

A couple of comments that apply here…

1. much of the additional labor applies to correcting previous repair work, and removal of the PCB for the additional work (including cleaning residue and contamination, which is important to minimize leakage currents)

2. 20% of the total repair cost doesn’t go to the shop, it goes to the all government to pay for the costs of running the country, including social heath programs. 
 

The pre-VAT amount is similar to the cost of factory servicing. 

Depending on the year, the 15's were usually EVM-15L's, the 10's could have been one of 3 or 4 different drivers (the one in the picture is NOT a CA-10 nor is it an Eminence, it may have been a Precision Devices driver). The 6-1/2" driver is a customized Eminence driver, there were at least 2 versions, one with an unvented motor and a vented dust cap and the one pictured that has a vented motor (because the dust cap is not vented). I do not know what  the customizations were, but it it likely that it was related to the mid voicing and extension.

If everything is working, I would leave the drivers alone.