Twanger

All sensible stuff. And yes, you smell right. But I’m fighting it!!

Too many choices. But thanks for this. It's making me think...

That's sensible. On the other hand, an investment in something new would boost the sticking with it-ness of it all.

That's a good point. I could afford a Phil Jones Cub. I could get a Rumble 500 on the never never. The AER types are beyond my means. Say £500 tops, but less is better. I need to justify what I spend. If I knew I was going to be gigging seriously, then I'd go straight out and spend what was necessary to buy what I needed. That ain't the case yet.

I’m writing this more to work out what I think rather than fish for advice, but I would really appreciate any comments.

I am getting back into bass playing after a long absence, and I have choices to make. One is about amps. At the moment I am playing through a 3 watt Orange microcrush guitar amp which I am using as a headphone amp. It works well as long as my (passive) bass is going through some kind of preamp – I have a Sadowsky belt clip and an old model Sansamp BDDI both of which voice the bass well, and allow some EQ.  I have bought a cheap (£20) Behringer line mixer, which lets me run a computer/ mp3 player through at the same time.  In some ways, this is better than having a straight aux in to the amp, as I can balance the two stereo channels of the aux input to de-emphasise the bass guitar in whatever I’m playing along to. But with bass -> preamp -> line mixer -> amp -> headphones there are a lot of cables around the top of my chest of drawers which Mrs Twanger ain’t so keen on.

And there does come a time in a man’s life when headphone setups don’t always cut it.

But I don’t know – yet – whether my rediscovery of the bass is going to stick.  And if it does, will I remain a bedroom player, or will I play with others again? It’s 12 years since I last gigged, and 15 years since I last gigged on bass.

So I am going for an amp, but do I go for tone first or do I go for flexibility? I could go for something like a small Phil Jones amp, or a Micromark 801, which would sound great at home, and perhaps in acoustic jams, or I could go for a Fender Rumble 40, which would be better for any coffee shop gigs I may find myself playing? Now, I know Fender amps – I have played through a large number of Fender bass amps over the past 40 years - and I know that while they are excellent for jamming, rehearsing, playing out and even recording they do not, and never have, really articulated the tone of the bass in the way that a more hifi amp will. The new Rumbles are the best of the cheaper Fender amps I’ve ever played through, but to an extent you’re not getting your tone. You’re getting Fender’s take on your tone. Normally a good take, but still someone else’s.

But I don’t think you can really gig with the Markbass 801 - not the one I tried. And what I have read about the Phil Jones suggests the same. So I would end up needing another amp if I end up gigging. But with the Rumble 40, despite its “only 40 watts”, I think you could. I used to have a BXR 25 which was perfectly giggable acoustically. The Rumble 40 is much louder and punchier.

So. Do I get something good for home and another amp later, or something that is more like a Swiss Army knife, cheaper, and a fairly good for everything?

As I've got used again to standing up with my bass the back pains have gone. And though Adrenochome is clearly right to say that you don't actually have to play a heavy or unergonomic bass, when they're good it's a joy to do so. I'd forgotten how wonderful jazz bass pickups sound. How could I have ever stopped playing the thing?

It's not all politics and no, he doesn't get into physical differences.

19 hours ago, thegummy said:

I've actually watched some of that before and really didn't like it.

Does he get into physical differences or is it all politics?

I watched it. He actually makes extremely good points extremely well.  In this context, it boils down to this. If you buy a US made Fender, you'll get better bits - tuners, pups, bridge, probably wood as well. You'll get a bass built by people who were better paid, and were maybe more motivated to do a good job. But it's perfectly possible for a particular MIM Fender to be a better musical instrument than a particular MIA Fender. And whether its worth spending over £1000 more on the US Fender is entirely up to you. My feeling (and this is not advice, just my feeling) is that if you can't see something that would get you to spend more money other than the glamour of the decal on the headstock, then don't buy it. If the MIM floats your boat as well as the MIA as a musical instrument, then go for it. £600 for a usable, quality musical instrument is absurdly cheap. Then, if you learn through your experience of playing that there actually were good reasons to buy an MIA, sell the MIM and buy the MIA. The money you lose on the resale is a very cheap price for an important learning experience. It's a cheaper one than buying the MIA and later realising that you didn't want the damn thing in the first place.

And the other point is that if you only have £600 to spend, then buy a MIM. If you only have £300, then buy a Squier. And so on until you hit the magic line beyond which there is no joy in playing the bass. That line is in a different place for different people, and changes with experience.

3 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

(Only drawback is they cost about four times as much...)

Yup. That looks like my dream bass, but I have to live in the real world!

Assuming this is completely personal, I'd like to add:

Don't shoot me - Elton John. Dee Murray's playing is what made me want to play bass.

Place Vendome - MJQ and the swingle singers. Percy Heath's bass is perfectly judged.

Charles Mingus - The clown. Particularly Haitian fight song.

Sting - on the first two Police albums

Roger Glover - Made in Japan

Bakithi Kumalo - Graceland.

For me, it's not the whizz bangery of it all. It's what the bass player contributes to the song that counts.

Thanks for the replies.

My allergy to piezos is real. It goes for acoustic guitars as well. I've tried all sorts, from the bog standard under the saddle to blended systems, and I have never been happy with them - I think it's a lack of urgency in the sound. I keep wanting to like piezos, but I never have.

The active hangup I'm less sure of. It's a bit irrational, because I use a Sadowsky preamp - I have a belt clip which still works, despite lying fallow for years. I like  passive roll off tone controls, particularly on a precision. It's clearly very subjective, but both the active basses I've  had - a Yamaha BB (can't recall the number) and a Stu Hamm Urge I just couldn't get on with. It always seemed that the preamp came between me and the bass, and I couldn't really decide what the bass really sounded like. What it's own actual character was.

It's more than likely that I just like classic Fender tones, and so tend to judge everything by that standard. That being the case, I'll probably go for the Fender. But I ain't rushing.

17 minutes ago, NickA said:

" Is there something I've missed? "   What you need my friend.... is a Mk1 4-string wal custom fretless :¬)

Yes. I see your point. I had a look at their website - "prices start from £5500". I'll sell my zimmer frame.

Comment noted, Hellzero. Well, it was the beginning of the shopping process - how about that? I realised I wouldn't know what I wanted unless I went and tried stuff.

And, Elias, no. I tried a new MIM at another place in Camden Town.

Point about keeping an eye on the "for sale" page here is noted.

...and dropped into a couple of London's elegant emporiums for the first time in 15 years. 

I was impressed. Remembering the old Bass Cellar in Denmark street, it was good to be served by pleasant, considerate staff. I see the Bass Cellar is no more. Not surprised.

But still. I tried a MIM jazz, a bottom of the range Ibanez, a Godin 5 string with a piezo and an Overwater, on sale second hand. The first thing I noticed was how good the basses were. The current Mexican Jazz bass is head and shoulders above the old MIMs I recall from the 90s. Well made and well set up with a neck to die for. I have no idea if the neck is quarter sawn or not, but the whole thing reeked of good value for the price. The pickups were better - MUCH better - than the pups on the old MIMs. No buzz, for one thing. The old ones weren't even reverse would/ reverse polarity. I wasn't so keen on the flatwound strings the bass came with. The shop guy said they were Fender strings. They were sticky and too stiff - I'm used to TIs. The real shock was going back to a four string after having played 5s for so long. It felt a bit claustrophobic. And having played a 24 fret bass for so long, I really noticed the lack of easy access to the high neck.

The Ibanez SR was the cheap bass - around £300 and Indonesian made. It was well made, too. Active electronics were OK, and again I was impressed. You could never have got a bass of that quality for that price 20 years ago. It was a five string, and I found I could happily deal with the closer string spacing. My own fiver at home has 19mm spacing. But I'd be worried about a 4 string SR - the neck might be too skinny.

The Godin was a bit niche. I really don't like piezos. They sound good in your bedroom or if recording, I guess, but for me electromagnetic pickups may not sound "authentic" but they sound good, which is much more important. I'm glad I found that out.

The Overwater was a second hand bass, and I really appreciated the quality. But it was active, and also had a really skinny neck. And there's something about neck through basses I don't like. They always sound a bit bland to me. I once had a neck through Yamaha BB something or other, and I had the same reaction to that. Bolt on works for me. All personal taste, or course.

So, I know now that I am looking for:

1. A passive bass with electromagnetic pups.

2. Bolt on neck, not too skinny.

3. Easy access to the higher parts of the neck.

4. Not too worried about 4 or 5 strings. Also not worried about lined/ unlined.

The Fender came closest to what I'm looking for. Is there something I've missed? I saw no Warwicks, for example.

OK, I am shamed. The world is full, it seems, of wrinkly old bassists all enjoying themselves. I'm up for that. I'm still pretty fit - I can still carry a 2x10 up the stairs on my shoulder without breaking a sweat, so I should stop whining. I'll steer clear of the short scales for a while - I really do like a twangy sound. It's in my name.

Thanks, everyone, for your heartwarming replies.

21 minutes ago, discreet said:

Pretty much everyone on this bloody board is elderly and should know better! As said above, the main factor in keeping old bass players active is the advent of lightweight amplification that sounds as good as its chunkier predecessors, and to a lesser extent, the availability of much lighter basses.

My current Jazz bass is 7.5lbs and imminent combo will be around 16kg. Why we weigh basses in imperial measures and amps in metric I don't know, but there it is.

It's always been a dream of mine to carry a gigsworth of gear on the bus. Looking at the weight of modern amps, it's actually possible nowadays. My current bass is 10lbs. It's a bit of a monster.

1 hour ago, bassbiscuits said:

There's always the world of short scale basses, like Fender Mustangs etc, which are lighter, shorter scale and still very cool and credible.

There are also lots of light weight amps and speaker cabs around these days, which are ludicrously easy to move compared to the big old gear i started out playing 30 years ago.

I guess that as long as you're enjoying it, then keep at it. Lots of older guys on Basschat who will no doubt have some tips and support to share? 

 

Yes, there is. I have had a couple in the past - including an Epiphone Rivoli - one of the cheap '90s range. It was fun to play, but my current bass has a 35" scale, and I like the sound of that extra inch. I am prepared to suffer for my art.

That's what I need to hear, people! Keep it coming! Bass is the thing. Of all the gigging I've done, it was the bass playing that was the good stuff. It's great being the bass player because you're not reliant on someone else to provide the low end - they always do it worse than you would, and you're stuck there providing the garnish.

I'm starting out again after a 15 year hiatus. I kept up six string guitar, in a desultory way, as a bedroom player, but my bass stayed in the cupboard. So I dragged it out recently, bought a new set of strings (remortgaged the house for a new set of strings - I use TI flats) and set up a headphone amp for practice. I'll get a real amp when/if I find someone to play with.

I'm pushing 60. The bass is heavy. My back hurts after an hour or so. I've lost my stretch, and it's coming back slowly, but the muscles in my left hand need strengthening. Should I just give up and take up the ukulele or this there a future for elderly bassists? Any crumbs of comfort out there, of the "I'm 83 and still hauling SVTs and 8x10s around" kind?

26 minutes ago, josie said:

But you get a lot more flexibility and easier fingerings further up the fretboard.

 

 

 

 

Yes. This is the material point.

5. I only have one bass. I'd like a four, and a Precision is on my wish list. I'm a bit worried I'll suffer from "phantom string" syndrome, though.

Thanks for getting back to me. I did buy one, but it was defective so I returned it. It does handle a low B, but I went with a small Behringer line mixer and headphones into a small headphone amp instead.

On 05/11/2017 at 09:06, Highfox said:

I did have a lined fretless jazz at one point, but didn't get on with that, prefer just the dot markers for some reason.
 

On the couple of occasions I have tried to play a lined fretless, my fretted habits kicked in, and I kept trying to play behind the line, so always played flat. Could that be it?

2 hours ago, discreet said:

I find with flat boards I have to look at what I'm doing, whereas with a 7.25" radius board I can whiz around quite happily while leering at scantily-clad women in the audience. But I'm prepared to believe that's purely because I'm used to curved boards. Maybe I should get a flatter board though, it might keep me off the sex offenders' register... 

Yes, I'd imagine so. But "I'm used to it" and "I like it" seem to me to be good reasons for your choices. If it lets you scope out the audience, I say go for it.

Yup, each to his own. In my experience, flatter boards certainly facilitate speed, dexterity and string bending, partly because they allow a lower action. And I can definitely believe that a lot of bass design is "because we've always done it that way". But for the technique I referred to as "digging in and boogieing",  where you are really pulling hard at the strings with the right hand, you don't want a low action (or, more accurately, I don't want a low action), particularly on E and A, because the damn things keep bouncing off the frets and you have less tension. You'll be gripping quite hard with the left hand as well, and I find a cambered board facilitates this. It's more comfortable. This is not a sophisticated way of playing, but it's great fun and conveys a sense of drive and urgency.

FWIW my current bass is very flat.