althemusicwizard

Hi Matt, I used the ML3000 the other day to mix a few tracks that I recorded in Reason, then bounced out to the Fostex G24S tape machine, then mixed via the ML3000. After using the ML3000 and G24S I've decided to hang onto them....I'll get little for them and they're both now in top condition so I'm going to re-jig the studio to give me more room and start recording straight to tape. One thing that foxed me on the ML3000. Is there no independent PFL volume control for the monitor volume? I suppose with it being a live desk, the PFL level is mainly for use with headphones (where of course you can then set the level of the cans) but I have the 'monitor outs' hooked up to my ROTEL hi-fi amp (jacks to RCA). I found that the level of the 'LR' when sent to the amp was quieter than when a single channel was PFL'd. Any workarounds or am I doing something wrong? Cheers Al

Hey Matt, Have you ever used an AW4414? They're really great machines (the software is a bit clunky for editing recorded material) but for the size they have 40 inputs (16 from the recorder...24bit @ 44.1), 17 x 60 mm faders, but they can take 2 x analogue cards giving 24 line inputs. The mixing bit is ok but hasn't got dedicate HPF so you have to use low band of EQ to achieve this (not a breaker as you probably don't need the low band of eq if you're putting a HPF on a channel). From a tiny footprint you have a lot of the O2R functionallity. Al

Sorry Matt......never used one...but demoed one in about 1998....has it got the 60mm faders of an AW4416? It's probably as cheap as chips now. Al

Hey Matt, How do I rate the ML3000? Quite simply, it's the best sounding analogue desk I've ever used. I've had a Mackie Project 8 buss, numerous Soundcraft Spirit Studio, Soundcraft Ghosts, Soundtracs MRX, Soundtracs PC Inline, Soundcraft 200B, Allen & Heath GS3000. The GS3000 which was kind of the studio version of these 8-channel modular desks didn't sound as good as this (from what I remember). The desk is clean and transparent, but not thin or cold....just sounds great. It's got a lot less features mix wise than the GS3000 had, but maybe that's why it sounds so pure....less signals to be causing hums and noise. The HPF sweep is a great addition and although I haven't used it to the full....with a full flightcase I paid less than £600.......it's the best bargain I've ever had. It seems there is no market for physical desks at the moment, hence the bargains out there. I can't see me wanting another analogue desk though, because more facilities = bigger footprint, and the footprint on this desk is just about right for me. I can utilise 25-32 for tracking 8 channels to tape (or computer), and monitor back from tape (or computer) on 1-24. I'm going to try rigging the Mackie Ultra-34 up to the inserts, which would give me automated mixing (well auto level and mutes) which could be synced with the tape and computer....a basic version of what the O2Rs do so nicely. I won't be investing in much outboard gear as I can always use Reason's EFX and comps which I find more than adequate. There is a Reason update coming out which will allow VSTs to be used for the very first time, so with that update there really is no need for much else. What I could do with is more space though....or sell some gear!

Hi Matt, Sorry been busy with the motorhome and other things. Here's some pics of the desk. https://www.flickr.com/photos/33383402@N06/albums/72157680987755152 We also shot a video for my daughter here which has the desk in the background. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ps5kJbRI0g&ytbChannel=Amelia%20Rosa I used the desk to mix a track co-written with another student here featuring live cello: https://altruistica.bandcamp.com/album/stay Cheers, Al

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1489505448' post='3257509'] Any word on the ML, Al? [/quote] Hey Matt.......it arrived last week in a flightcase big enough to bury the missus. It's in great condition, although it's inputs are all on XLRs. The outs of the tape recorders are all on phonos so I'm just doing some test on patchbays and noise to see which is the best way of wiring it.I've run the RME Fireface through it and thought it sounded great.....really quiet and great HPF. We we're away at the weekend at a Hymer convention meet (motorhome) so I'm just catching up on things. Later, Al

Cheers. Like I said, I saw the ML3000 appear last night, so checked out the manual and resisted until this morning but as the Borg say....'resistance is futile' and by 10am I'd cracked. I saw that the flightcase alone is £545 from an online dealer so it was a no-brainer at that price. The Shiply couriers are coming in at just over £60, so I won't be collecting it myself......all in, I'm a happy teddy. I'll put some pics up after it arrives and I've cleaned it. Al

What am I like......couldn't resist the temptation of this that appeared on Ebay last night....just did a Buy It Now. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Allen-amp-Heath-ML-3000-32-Channel-Mixing-Console-/112317656598?nma=true&si=Ny77OHUWCn0L7orGykFl8setrwA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Now I'm trying the Fostex G24S, I wanted an all analogue signal path to see if I could tell the difference. From a lot of the digital desks I've used, the O2R has an analogue quality to it, probably because of the bunch of analogue circuitry in it. I've also got it hooked up to the Fostex in such a way that SMPTE timecode on track 24 is played into the SMPTE input on the O2R and the automation is synced. I also laid an FSK (Midi Clock with song position) code on track 23 and can sync Propellerhead's Reason to it too. This will be the fall back position should thML3000 not work out. I really like the facilities on the ML5000, but it's just too damn big. This way, I get the VCAs of the big brother minus the sweet EQ, but with the 0-400Hz HP (which I really think cleans a mix up), and only 40Kg. If I really want the automation, I have a Mackie Ultramix system that I was going to stick back on Ebay but I might just hang onto.Now I just to have to find a courier to collect it and drop it off here....the south coast is a long way to drive...... Al

Just had a listen to the tracks, thanks 'Matt'(?). I loved the bass playing in 'Broken Gun' (that's you?). Overall I thought the song, the playing and arrangement great. The things that I wanted to change were the vocals (not necessarily the vocalist) but maybe delay instead of reverb. I also thought the vocal mix was kind of 'apologetic'......as if you're trying to hide the vocals.I also wanted more stereo spread between the keyboards and guitars. The funk guitar I found too loud and too centred....I wanted it off to the left more. The bass was great! The 'Deep City' track has a great guitar riff and as a live mix is really good. I'm not particularly struck by the song. Although it has a great vibe, there doesn't seem to be a hook, at least not one that I found very memorable. The other track I found really interesting was 'Coastal'. It sounds like a backing track without vocals? I could really hear a Lou Reed / Leonard Cohen drawl punctuating this. I wouldn't mind having a go at adding some vocals to this if you're not adverse to this. I think I might be able to write something to this and my (almost) fifteen year old daughter could have a go at singing something....your call. Anyway, it's always great to hear other people's stuff. Keep rockin' in the free world......WOW ''Broken Gun' has just gone into 'Industry POD Concept'....what is that? It sounds massive. I like that. Al

250Kg!!!!!! Yikes. My back feels sore just thinking about that.

Looks like it's about the size of three O2Rs......man it's big. That must be a serious lift for two guys? Glad it's working for you. Al

Don't worry....I found it. It's in the RME Control Panel. The default setting is 'AES' input is set to ADAT 2. Simply change it back to AES and the light comes on the unit showing it is locked to the Yamaha O2R.

Hi Guys, Just been trying to get signal out of the bog standard AES out on the back of the desk (I take it this is just a mirror of the analogue MASTER L/R out) to talk to my RME UFX Fireface. I have just connected normal mic cable to the XLRs and get nothing at the RME. I have done the same with the 'D1' AES tape return and it's worked fine, so I don't think the cable is a problem. The O2R is clocking to the RME via the AES D1 return, so I'm at a loss as to what could be wrong (other than the obvious....the AES out on the desk doesn't work!). I can't find a setting where you have to select 'MASTER TO AES' so presume the AES is getting signal. Any thoughts? Al

The amount of control room options was one of the first things I noticed with the first O2R when I got it....and how many desks have 3 sets of digital 2-track returns and 2 sets of analogue 2-track returns....all with separate switches to solo them? Not many, that's for sure. I do love the AUX on Faders too...it makes setting EFX sends or AUX feeds so easy.. Al

Hey VT....I was looking at getting an ML5000 recently or an MH4 (neither of which I have experience with, but as you say a £20000 desk has got to be good). The reason I shelved the idea was because I only really have access to half the studio now (6m x 4m) in which everything has to live (also the PA gear). Wifey has taken over the other half and as her teaching practise has expanded at the same rate mine has declined....it makes economic sense. The desk would have been too big.....and since I have all these O2Rs knocking around, it just makes more sense at this time. I did have an Allen & Heath GS3000 in here a couple of years ago. I couldn't get used to the 'reverse' way it handles the 'small' faders and the main ones. Also it had annoying '8 input' modules that needed to be removed if something was to be fixed...I take it the ML5000 is modular (each channel?) or is it the same? I had also been looking at the new Presonus StudioLive Series III....which looks very impressive (and also records 32 tracks to on-board SD card). But once you get past all the good things, I'd be surprised if head to head, blind-testing with an O2R, you could tell significant difference. What is interesting is that 22 years on from the release of the O2R, here is a desk that still ONLY functions at 44 / 48kHz. If that rate is so awful for the O2R, why have Presonus just released the same? And the X32....and the Qu series and the Mackie.....etc. Your plans look impressive VT. I looked at 'The Rigger' (are you the house engineer)? It looks like a good gig place. I'll have to pop down one weekend in the motorhome and camp somewhere nearby and sample the live scene. I can't believe I first went to Manchester as a student in 1982, moved away and came back to Bury in 2000, but only went to the Deaf Institute last week to see an amazing band from Minneapolis that I've been following for a few years online....'Darlingside'....cracky musicians. They all performed around a home-made condensor mic (their acoustic instruments were also mic'd or DI'd)....but the sound on stage was minimal. They all sing (kind of barbershop meets The Beachboys meets Madrigals....the style is eclectic) and play. They've probably returned to the States now, but if you like something different, they're well worth seeing. Anyhow, the Deaf Institute is a cracking venue....much smaller than I imagined, but a great place to get up close with 200 other people.....I don't like big gigs. Al

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1486807664' post='3234642'] Al - your pictures just put a real smile on my face. It's the first time in as long as I can remember that I've seen a photo of a studio mix position that didn't have a single computer monitor up in the middle of it. I remember when we used to mix with our ears and not our eyes! [/quote] The thing with ITB stuff is that it always takes me three and four times longer to mix..and as a mate of mine remarked, you seem to get to a point somewhere in the mix where it starts to begin to sound worse....as if the computer is falling over somewhere. The good thing with a piece of gear like the RME is that it takes some of the work off the computer. I've just been investigating some orchestral sample libraries (which I've never got into). Initially, they sound amazing, but after a time, they all begin to sound the same. That's the beauty of using different gear to everyone else...at least you're going to sound individual. One of my favourite albums from the last few years is K.T.Tunstall's 'Invisible Empire'. I found out the American guy that produced it recorded it I think to 2" and a Soundcraft Ghost. Now the songs are great, but so is the production. Al

Don't be surprised if the O2Rs outlive the X32 and the rest. Behringer gear is much better than it used to be, but that said, I can't see an X32 surviving much past ten years. My Hymer motorhome was designed with a life expectancy between 10-15 years...it's already 22 years young.....mind you it was around £100K when it came out. I've never really invested much into the computer, as I soon became tired of the endless updates and upgrading. I now sit in a studio that as an eighteen year old I could have only dreamed about. In fact, in the late eighties I produced a few jingles that ended up on national TV with less gear than I now own....I remember specing a studio for the company that I worked for as we lined up a move to Cabot Square, one of the original buildings in Canary Wharf......I speced a Yamaha DRM8, costing I think £25K at the time. Unfortunately, the studio was one thing the company cut so I never got to try one out....I bet you couldn't give one away now on Ebay. [url="http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/about/history/"]http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/about/history/[/url] Though out of all the equipment that I've been through in the last thirty years, my biggest regret was buying three ADATS and a BRC......without even trying a 1" or 2" machine. They only lasted a couple of years until HDR caught up. If you'd have told me in 2000, that in 2017 I would have a Yamaha O2R with a 1" tape machine and a computer / Hard Disk setup Iwouldn't have believed you.

Forgot to say, I use Reason as my DAW. I moved to it once it gained recording abilities. It doesn't do VST plug-ins so less things to get distracted by, hence the keyboard and screen in one of the shots. The keyboard is a Nektar Panorama P6 which is a great bit of kit if you're a Reason user as it interfaces really well. I also forgot to say that I arrived at the Yamaha O2R situation after using Behringer X32 in various models (console, Producer, Racks) but sonically I don't think they added much if anything over the O2R. They've just upgraded the PC editing software X-Edit 3.1 which allows users to redefine the fader channels to their own liking. Another mixer that was recently on my radar was the brand new, out sometime now, Presonus StudioLive Series III. It looks on demo presentations as a very good mixer, both for studio and live......but £300 for an O2R or £3000 for a StudioLive. Yet, I have to remind myself how much this stuff cost in the past.....£3000 for an Alesis Adat that come up on Ebay for £50. That's one of the reasons though for my reluctance to buy any new music technology product. Unless it really meets a need, I try to walk past. Al

Hey guys, Long time since posting.....OMG....I've just looked at my original post....it was in 2015! A lot happened last year but I didn't realise it was 2015 that I tried the 'mixer experiment'. Well no surprise I haven't been back here as I've been too busy mending analogue mixers. I ended up buying a Tascam M3500 in about Jan 2016. Went all the way to Edinburgh to pick it up and then spent the next couple of months re-capping the PSU and the master section. In the end it was a great mixer, but it didn't have any automation or recall so I've just sold it, along with the Ghosts and the Mackie and the Spirit. I'm now left with the O2Rs. I have one in a flightcase with two analogue cards (giving 40 ins and 20 outs). This is the gigging mixer. I've just installed one with a meterbridge to take the outputs of a Fostex G24S. I also spent last year accumulating 24 track 1" machines. I now have two Fostex G24S (totally renovated and setup with brand new heads....you may have seen them on Ebay....I now plan to use them). I also have two Tascam MSR24 DBX. When I had the Tascam M3500 desk, I was looking for a convertor to accept the 24 outs of the G24S so I could dump into computer with a view to mixing and processing in there. I bought an RME Fireface UFX and two Behringer ADA8200. They weren't cheap, but what a combination! I now have an ITB setup or a tape /digital mixer setup . The bonus is that the RME will at a push double up as a live mixer and 30 track recorder too! It's an amazing piece of gear and one that I plan to keep for a long time. I bought it with a 5 year guarantee so piece of mind about that. So, my studio has had a bit of a re-fit. I do have one of the O2Rs on Ebay at the moment, but I'm not that bothered if it doesn't sell as I've now got rid of a rack that i had to build to store all the mixers and it and a spares machine is sat on top of the PA now out of harm's way. I've even thought of buying a flightcase for it, but at £180 I might just wait for another flightcased O2R to come up. I picked up a mint condition, flightcased O2R with 2 ADAT cards when I was looking for £250....absolute steal. Here's some pics: [url="https://www.flickr.com/photos/33383402@N06/albums/72157678602814990"]https://www.flickr.c...157678602814990/play[/url] Later, Al

Hey VT, Where did you get the desk repaired? What was done to it? Was it pricey? I have a garage to sort out, then a rack to build in the studio (to house the mixers), then I'll post some pics. Cheers, Al

So I managed to get all the desks in the Berlingo....seven desks and a lot of duvets / cushions and packing. RRP on all those desks......just short of £35000! I picked them up with four Soundcraft CPS275 power supplies for considerably less than that! I've always wanted to try some mixers back to back to compare the different qualities. Now the bottom's fallen out of the mixer market (apart from new mixers that have 'wi-fi' capability) I'm more than happy to punt a few hundred quid on a mixer that retailed at £4000 plus. I just picked up another O2R (admittedly needing some LTC and repairs on the main out section) for £50....sorry £90 including £40 worth of diesel to pick it up from Sunderland. I finished my first musical earlier this year which I want to put on. I plan on recording the band parts onto a Tascam MX2424 (I already have a lot of it mocked up in Propellerhead's Reason but the thought of using computers live still fills me with dread). I have a bank of MX2424 machines so I can run a couple of machines in sync in case one goes AWOL during the show. I now have a compliment of radio mics too (fourteen) which should be enough for the cast. The mixers were being sold by an Ebay dealer that deals primarily in used MACS, so imagine my horror whan I get there and the gear is all at the back door of their warehouse, on the floor, next to a Soundcraft Sapphire which looked as if it had just been cannabilised for whatever the poor mixer could give. After a three hour session going through the main bits of each mixer, I decided that they all were worth buying once I could see past the grime. The 24 channel Ghosts look like they have had minimal work done on them (evidenced by the newness of the pots), but the 32 channel was more battle-scarred. The O2R has a damaged phantom switch, a bent gain pot and TAPE 15 and 16 are missing the shafts of their pots. I'm not sure how much I'd use these encoders as the desk uses the FLIP to put the TAPE channels on the MIC channels. It would have been great if the Yammy engineers had used these encoders like later desks did (to control a whole channel strip....comp settings in particular). I do love the AUX implementation.I used to use the YAMAHA AW4416 which had a similar implemntation on the AUX, but only had 60mm faders and lacked enough grunt in the mixing when it was processing 16 tracks of audio too. It's so easy to see the AUX settings on the faders and also the routing buttons are going to be useful. I have been using various Behringer X32 desks recently (the full X32, then the RACK version with a laptop and then the halfway house of the Producer). The X32 only have XLR jacks and I never liked the idea that you might have a line source plugged in and accidently switched on phantom power or recalled it from a scene setting. Nice to see the O2R only has phantom power on where it should be...the mic inputs. My O2Rs have come with various cards, so I have two ADAT cards and 2 analogue cards. The analogue cards take up two slots (they're 8 channel IN and 8 channel OUT and would have cost an absolute fortune no doubt in 1995). The TASCAM MX2424 are 24 track recorders, with 24 analogue INS and 24 anologue OUTS as well as 24 INS and 24 OUTS on ADAT too, so I've wired things up as follows: ADAT cards are wired from SLOT 1 and SLOT 2 to 1-8 and 9-16 of the MX2424 INS and OUTS. This means that I could send 16 mic sources to the recorder at once. As I won't need more than 8 sources at one time these can come from the first 8 mic channels. The analogue card in SLOT 3&4 can serve BUSS OUTPUTS 1-8 to the MX2424 track 17-24 inputs. I plan on using 17-24 as submixed groups (probably backing vox, woodwind, strings and brass). I have connected the MX2424 analogue outputs (1-24) to the LINE INPUTS of the O2R so that the TAPE RETURNS are all on the same fader bank while sub-mixing. Thinking of the live situation, I will have 14 'line' sources from the Sennheiser radio mics, which may come up on the TAPE inputs (via two Behringer ADA8200 ADAT which I picked up) or plugged straight into the MIC line inputs....I haven't finalised anything yet as I'm still getting used to the idea of using the MX2424 recorders as a 1-16 mono channels and 17-24 as sub-group stereo pairs...which could work out pretty good. If I find myself short of channels, I could always use one of the other mixers as a sub-mixer........ Al plan on using the O2R as a 16 input

Hey VT, I've found your posts really informative. I've used loads of gear over the years both for recording and doing live stuff. I've just had a mega blow-out on some mixing consoles I've bought from an Ebay dealer...they include a couple of Ghosts (had one before), a Mackie 8buss (never had one), a Soundcraft Spirit24 (had one before) and an O2R (never had one). I also bought another O2R with a meterbridge and ADAT card which I hope to collect at the same time. I bought the meterbridge one before I read your post about how you'd found it a great asset, because with a digital desk you need all the information you can. I'll write once I've collected everything and had a chance to play with the O2R. Al