Dan Dare

12 hours ago, NOODS said:

Yep i play drums and acoustic guitar … Drums way better than guitar .. 

That's a useful combination and should give you a solid start. You will have the feel for timing and know which are the important/strong beats in the bar from playing drums (you often look to lock the bass in with the kick drum, for example). Your guitar playing will give you knowledge of where the notes are. In your shoes, I'd take a few lessons to equip you with some fundamental techniques on the bass and take it from there. There's plenty of useful instructional free stuff on YouTube. I wouldn't bother signing up to any of the subscription teachers who offer to "propel your playing into the stratosphere", etc.

Are you new to the bass or new to playing a musical instrument? If the latter, then definitely go to a teacher to start with. If you play guitar or another stringed instrument (I originally played the fiddle), you have a better chance of teaching yourself via instruction videos, books, etc.

Many engineers tend to be one or more of the following:

1) Jaded. Understandable in a way. They've spent their lives schlepping gear and probably working long hours for relatively little pay and/or thanks, so their hearts aren't in it. Befriend one of these, buy them a pint, explain what you want and they'll usually try their best for you.

2) Gear heads. Little chance with one of these. They want to show the world how those subs can rattle the foundations and those horns can slice your head off. They frequently have extensive technical knowledge, but Van Gogh's ear for music. In their free time, they listen exclusively to horrible electronic music, not because they like it but because it tests the limits of their sound systems. Ask them to mic' up an acoustic instrument properly and they haven't a clue.

3) Think they know best. A close relative of the gear head and equally little chance of getting what you want from them.

4) Deaf. 30 years of monitoring on loud cans and blasting audiences' ears off have wreaked havoc with their hearing. Again, little chance of a result. They just can't hear well enough, especially if they're getting on in years and have lost the ability to discern frequency extremes.

5) Resentful/frustrated musicians. "That could have been me playing, you know. Kids these days don't know what good music is", etc. Lost cause.

6) Not too bright. Any combination of the above.

The remainder aren't too bad generally.

On 14/10/2023 at 23:59, PaulWarning said:

had a look tonight, there is an XLR socket in the back, when I asked why he didn't use it he said "Well it works from the other one so I never bothered" told you he was a technophobe, I'll try it at our next gig

All's well that ends well, hopefully.

9 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

 I've not actually looked at the Shure base unit carefully, the singer says it's not got a an XLR out, but he is a technophobe, if he's using the instrument out it could explain the high output, we're feeding the PA from the MA400 via the thru connector.

 

I found out you could reduce the output of the mic by 10db by holding down the channel button that improved matters.

If the impedance is mismatched, it may well still not sound right (you mentioned getting a dalek vocal sound) even if you can reduce the level sufficiently. Is the singer just handing you a connector and telling you to plug it into the PA? You need to look at the base unit. The outputs are on the back. There should be a XLR and jack. If the singer doesn't have an XLR cable, I assume you carry spares.

Either that, or is his wireless a very old or cheaper Shure model and not a SM58? That might not have an XLR out. Google "SM58 wireless mic" and you'll find plenty of pic's of the unit.

I'm a bit mystified that you say the singer's SM58 wireless doesn't have an XLR connector, just a standard jack. The 58 base unit has both - a low Z output on an XLR and high Z on a jack. The MA400 should accept virtually any low Z mic'.

Are you taking the feed to the PA from the 58 base unit XLR and using the line level/jack output on the base unit to feed the monitors? Shouldn't you be feeding the XLR out from the base unit to the MA400 input XLR and routing it to the PA via the 'thru' XLR on the MA400? You can then route the monitor output on the MA400 to the monitors and control the level it sends to them using the 'Mon Level' control.

Saturday's gig was in a long room, all hard plaster walls, arched glass ceiling and full height glass patio-type doors along the entire wall behind the band. No drapes, few soft furnishings (barring the bodies of those in the audience). The sound was, um, interesting. Certainly didn't need reverb. Went down well and got asked back. Perhaps I should take a pink noise generator next time we play there...

It'll probably need a new amp module. They often aren't repairable, especially if made from Chinesium. May well cost more than buying a complete new speaker to get it repaired even if it's possible.

Interesting that more than one asserts that Markbass is over-rated. I must disagree. I find MB gear doesn't have the baked in eq that is designed to give products showroom appeal, even when set supposedly "flat". It is honestly voiced. It does not sound bright/hyped when you stand next to it, but it projects very well out in the room and has a real weight to the sound. It does lean a little more towards old school than some brands, but is none the worse for that. I'm don't use MB (I have an AG700), but I would be happy to do so.

Bill's spot on above. Leaving aside the fact that achieving a CD quality monitor mix is impossible unless you spend serious money or go the in-ear or even silent stage route, the aim should be to balance levels onstage to bring quieter sounds up to the level of louder ones. Drums and instruments that employ backline are not likely to need as much, if anything, in the monitors as vocals. Singers need to be prominent to aid pitching and phrasing. It's always best to avoid very low frequencies in monitors, as Bill points out, or everything will quickly become mud and you will likely have issues with feedback. I aim for intelligibility and some brightness, without cutting peoples' heads off, obvs, in a monitor mix.

7 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

My Spark 40 amp broke at the beginning of september. It is what sits by my chair and I use for most practice with headphones, I find it very useful so was a bit sad without it.

Seemed the effects and the music playback worked but no input. However, it was over 3 years since I bought it so what can you do - I contacted postitive grid to see if I could get it repaired, they asked for a video of what it was doing and on reciept of that they asked me to send it in, while not telling me how much it would be, so I sent it in.

Today a completely new amp turned up as a replacement - pretty impressed with that level of service!

Good to hear. I bet the fact that you were nice to them played a big part in their doing that.

A lot of useful advice above. I would urge you not to buy on recommendation alone. Unless it's really impossible, visit a shop or two and try some gear out. If you can, borrow equipment from a few friends and see how it performs in real world situations. You could even hire a few things and try them at gigs,

Wattage is a very approximate measure of what an amp can deliver. It's often measured at one metre into a nominal impedance (as explained above), but that's not the full story. Speaker efficiency (how much sound a particular speaker will produce for a given input power) and impedance affect how much volume an amp and speaker combination will produce. Manufacturers usually measure wattage at a single frequency such as 1khz. They also measure over a few milliseconds (which is different from the real world demands that will be placed on an amp) as well as at the lowest impedance that an amp will work safely into, which inflates the figure. Once you ask an amp to process a complex musical signal, rather than a single frequency test tone, things change again. Really, wattage is pretty meaningless other than as a rough approximation. However, it's used as finding an alternative measure is difficult.

The Rumbles are a safe, reasonably priced recommendation if you don't want to get too deeply into it and just buy something you can be sure will do the job. I find them a little bland, personally, but I'm an Aguilar user.

I think the Elf plus a 1x10 you suggest might not be enough for your needs. I'd look at 2x10 as a minimum if you're playing with a drummer, unless you're doing jazz gigs in wine bars. Watts are cheap these days, so buy something that's more powerful than you think you might need. 500 may seem a lot, but in reality, a 500w amp will only be around 10% louder than a 200w one. You can always turn a powerful amp down, but you can't turn a low powered amp up when/if it runs out of steam.

With only the very occasional exception, I've always enjoyed good customer service from just about anywhere I've shopped. I'm always a mite suspicious of those who recount multiple tales of bad service. Yes, the odd thing can (and does) go amiss, but it makes me wonder what those who always complain about poor customer service are doing or saying to the staff at the places that allegedly give them poor customer service.

Having worked in a number of public-facing roles, I know from experience how unreasonable some people can be. Could it be that those who never seem to experience good service might be contributing to the situation in some way?

10 hours ago, sandy_r said:

...and sometimes there were still a few unsatisfied customers!

That bass currently resides in the Museum of London. It's described as "iconic". A bit pathetic, imho. The photo of Simonon smashing it calls to mind little Timmy having a tantrum because his mum said he couldn't have any sweets.

I'd get whichever is cheapest. Both reputable brands. 

Of course it will work. Whether you like it is another matter.

Yeah, like, er man, I only play originals. I mean, I've got integrity. I don't copy or rip off uvver musicians. My latest song goes C, Am, D, G. Nobody's ever dun nuffink like that before. Move over Mozart. Etc, etc, etc.

Ain't nothing new under the sun.

27 minutes ago, JapanAxe said:

The trouble is, I won't be able to hear anything then - not through deafness, but because the earplugs are so effective.

The ones I had made are for shooters. The idea behind them is that they allow normal level sound through but block loud transients. I found the company that makes them at The Game Fair a few years ago (I'm partial to a bit of fishing and shooting). They work as claimed, but I would still rather not use them unless necessary. The firm is Custom Fit Guards. Google will find them.

If you want a scratchplate made, Jack's Instrument Services in Manchester are very good. Wide choice of materials. 

4 hours ago, greavesbass said:

All that wil change if you read about poor poor old Debbie Harry. Shes got acute tinnitus now thanks to Clems incessant cymbal smashing. I know of two other cases of peeps who's tinnitus was so bad they ended it all. 

DH is 78 now. So her hearing would have deteriorated with age anyway. I'm 70 and mine is not what it was (high frequency loss mainly, which is almost inevitable with age. Acuteness is fine). Obviously, if one is playing large, loud stages, as was DH, the problem will be greater.

As I said, I do carry and use plugs (I had proper custom fit ones made), but I prefer not to if I can avoid it.

3 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

buy an active crossover and use your spare amp. Used there are several on FB marketplace going for £20-35 up to £100 for  a big brand model. When people go active the crossovers become redundant so there are plenty up for sale. 

This looks to be the easiest/cheapest option. You already have the passive subs and a spare power amp, so you won't have to sell the passives and buy actives (which almost inevitably means incurring a loss). You only need a simple 2 way active crossover to spilt sub and top feeds. Plenty of companies offer them - DBX, Behringer, LD Systems (their X223 looks good value at around £100), etc. All you want is a few extra XLR cables to feed the crossover and spare power amp and a couple of additional speaker cables (if you don't already have them). Even buying new, less than £300 should see you sorted.

Following from Down Under's post, your mixer may even have a sub output (both my Soundcraft and Allen & Heath do), so you may only need a power amp (assuming you continue with your passive subs). Used power amps can be had cheaply if you don't mind old school/heavy.

11 minutes ago, chris_b said:

You need to play better basses.

Much truth in that. A 35" scale makes a lot of difference on a low B. It helps if your gear is up to reproducing it, too. No real world bass rig will give you a low B fundamental (31 hz) at high volumes, but the better ones get closer or cover their tracks better.

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

We was using a pair of these but at least one each time overheats and fails......

Skytec and similar brands are, to put it kindly, absolute bargain basement (their stuff is aimed at the budget disco market) and I wouldn't trust claims of 1000w handling. They might cope with very short bursts in 4 ohm applications, but if your Dynacord can output 700w into 8 ohms, it'll destroy them with no bother, as you've found.

You could get some better passives custom made (you're unlikely to find something suitable off the shelf), but passive crossovers, especially heavy duty ones, are inefficient and soak up a lot of power. At the levels you're running at, I'd look at an active crossover plus a power amp to drive your passive subs. Either that or go for active subs.

The problem with plugs, ear protection, etc is that either the whole band has to use them or nobody. I don't like them personally - they make me feel isolated from what's going on, but I have to use them sometimes in self-defence. My preferred option is that nobody uses them and we keep onstage levels reasonable and let the FOH do the heavy lifting. Once one person, especially the guitard, wears them and turns up so he can hear himself, everything goes to hell in a handcart very quickly.