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[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1507796202' post='3387956'] Last January a couple of local lads and I started a band - we initially looked for a singer but no-one seemed to be available apart from a death metal growler (we're not that sort of band!). So we resigned ourselves to having the guitarist sing - which has actually worked out quite well. We've written 12 songs and have our debut gig coming up in November supporting [url="https://www.facebook.com/icarusfallsukband/videos/1064856900313301/"]these guys[/url]. We recently had some interest from a good local singer which would have left our guitarist free to be Steve Vai a bit more. However, she wasn't interested at all once she discovered that there's no pay; she couldn't understand that locals don't like to pay to see bands - though they might be persuaded to pay £5, maybe £6, for 3 bands. The PA and sound man costs £250, local council insists on bouncers (it's in the community centre) - £250. Insurance is £100, and the community centre want £50 as well as all the bar take. So that's £650, with £100 for poster printing, tickets etc. The venue has a fire limit of 150, so that means max possible take of £900 at £6, or £750 at £5. So at £6 to get in, the maximum that can be shared between 3 bands (assuming sell-out!) is £150, and the Icarus boys have to come up from Down South, plus 2nd on the bill are about 1.5 hours away. Which means nowt for our band. So she's sitting at home waiting for a call which probably won't come, and we'll be getting [s]canned off stage[/s] the adulation we so richly deserve! [/quote] Sounds like if you ran an ad for this type of band you'd have to make it clear that gigs would be far and few in between and that right now it's a "for fun only" opportunity. Interesting, my band, we don't play venues where people would have to pay too see us. Blue

[quote name='ricksterphil' timestamp='1507757904' post='3387848'] We did a gig a couple of weeks back at a local place (The Maze) on a local bands night where each band gets 30 minutes. A total of 3 people turned up but they had a great time and told us so afterwards. It would have been great if the place was full but even so we thought it was worth the effort [/quote] 3 people engaged with a band is better than 1500 uninterested people. Blue

[quote name='Lysdexia' timestamp='1507760590' post='3387858'] It's a load of fun. Which is a tremendous value - playing for the joy of it. [/quote] We can play at home for the joy and gigging is always a joy. The only difference is when you gig you get joy and money. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1507763119' post='3387876'] In my experience the gigs full of drunken idiots are few and far between. Most 'music pubs' are not like that at all. You would feel completely at home at all the gigs I do these days. [/quote] That's good and kind of what I thought Pete. Blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1507755591' post='3387838'] So you're complaining about the outcome of a hypothetical situation ? In my book that's just moaning for the sake of it. YMMV. [/quote] That's cool I call it commentary. The issue has generated s lot of interesting ideas and positions. Blue

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1507714842' post='3387364'] They posted an ad, you asked a few questions and they were straight up honest with their long term plans, you're looking for professional work on websites aimed at weekend warrior bands, maybe you need an agent? [/quote] Good point. I'm not sure what my selling point would be for an agent. A 64 year old rock bar band bass player. Doesn't sound promising does it. Lol 😂 Blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1507712560' post='3387347'] Well, I can only offer you the very best of luck - you're looking for an incredibly rare beast, one that almost any musician who gigs would love.[/quote] I'm not looking. I'm fortunate for the last 6 years I've been a member of a gigging band with personable, trustworthy, honest, reasonable professinal people. I worry about my plight or fate when and if it comes to an end. Blue

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1507731130' post='3387571'] There is a sense here and on other music forums that unless you're out there gigging, you're less of a musician[/quote] Again, personally I don't see that and I don't get the sense anyone here is suggesting anyone is any less of a musician if their not gigging. We all gig and don't gig for different reasons. One of the primary reason I gig is to bring a little happiness to people when the work week is done and they merely want to relax, have fun and a good time. We had a marginal crowd at best Saturday night. But there was this one older women who looked like she hadn't been out for a while. She was smiling, totally focused on the band rocking in her seat. Just watching her puts why I gig into perspective. Blue

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1507734440' post='3387598'] Why does everyone posting here seem to be insisting theirs is the only right way? Some like to play for its own sake with a few pals, some like to play for a living, some like to do the occasional gig, etc, etc. So what? Different strokes for different folks. I've played as a hobby and for a part and full living. I'm currently back to being a hobbyist. I enjoy it. End of. [/quote] You might want to re-read the comments here. Nobody is suggesting their way is the only way. Blue

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1507735364' post='3387608'] Perhaps you should make the effort to get out and see more bands and get your face known. If other local musos see you at gigs when they know you're not working, especially if you get to know them socially a bit, then they are more likely to think of you when they need a new bass player. These days connecting with players (and fans) on social media is essential and may well be where your next gig comes from! [/quote] Hi Pete, In my neck of the woods any bands I would go out to see are not in a position to do anything for me. Matter of fact we work more when were slow than a lot of other local bar bands. The Musicians that could do something for me, the Greg Kochs and Daryl Strummers wouldn't give a guy like me the time of day. I'm an outsider and I haven't figured out how to get on the inside, and not for a lack of trying. However, overall going out never hurts. Blue

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1507748382' post='3387750'] Very good. My problem is (or was) bands who claim to be gigging and then turn out to be not gigging. Not only that, but they have no intention of gigging and got me in the band under false pretences. Silly really - do they think I'm somehow not going to notice the lack of gigs?? [/quote] Great point. Most of us that have been around have experienced this, and were caught off guard. I once joined a band because they advertised they were a gigging band with strong bookings. I thought their original material was great and they had a dynamite front man. The band rehearse at least twice a week. Stupid me after a few months I realized the front man who was also the band leader only wanted to play "rock star" in his basement. Blue

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1507709817' post='3387329'] I know that this comment wasn't aimed at me, I feel the need to reply. It irks me that people assume because you are a musician that you like all kinds of music. I got into playing because although I do like music, the stuff I really like (i.e. the music I like enough to want to buy it on record CD etc.) is fairly rare and if I didn't write and play it myself there would be even less of what I considered interesting music. I'm all for supporting my local live music scene, so long as it is putting on music that I actually want to hear. Otherwise it can "go and do one". I certainly have no interest in going to see bands churning out covers as a soundtrack for drunken idiots in pubs looking for a fight. It is also unfortunate that the few local bands whose music I do currently enjoy are boring to watch live and little idea of what makes an entertaining live show. [/quote] Over time I'm getting the feeling that my local bar scene and cover band culture is different than in the UK. First of all our patrons are music and people lovers. I never see anything remotely like this "drunken idiots" crowd you speak of. I'm not sure what it's like in the UK, in the States if you get charged with drunken driving even if it's a first offense your looking at no less than 10K after everything is said and done. Now, we do have bands, originals and cover bands that struggle with the entertainment aspect of a show. In other words we have bands with no strong front person that can capture and win an audition over. Now that you mention it, the ability to entertain would be a solid deal breaker for me. For example if I auditioned for a band and found there was no strong front person and lifeless members I would take a pass. Blue

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1507708028' post='3387307'] Is this yet another re-hash of the "you're not a proper musician unless you get paid" thread?[/quote] Absolutely not, some of the best and proper musicians I know don't get paid. Blue

[quote name='ricksterphil' timestamp='1507651749' post='3387004'] We're playing the Ojxam Beeston Takeover on Sat night. which band are you? This is us [url="https://www.facebook.com/missbowieband/"]https://www.facebook.../missbowieband/[/url] [/quote] Loved your clip. Nice job! Blue

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1507618330' post='3386734'] I don't think it's the lack of interest it's the lack of need if they've got a decent job. [/quote] Huh? Most people I know haven't stopped gigging because they have a decent job. Everyone in my band except me works and have more than decent jobs. They gig because it's something they love to do and like this type of work. So, let me try and understand this. If I get a decent job I'll won't have the need to gig, so I'll stop gigging? Blue

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1507704857' post='3387289'] Incredible is the right word Blue. I didn't actually 'discover' James Brown until the 80's (born in '72) which was when I started searching for the records all my Hip Hop heroes were sampling so I didn't experience his socio-political importance in real time. Mr. Dynamite just changed all that! I've always heard of his almost tyrannical control of his band and business so that was no surprise, but understanding now what kind of life he was born into and that he had been fighting for his since birth finally explains it all for me. It does seem everyone who played for him is still spun out by him, feeling both truly thankful and resentment in equal measures. It must have been mind-blowing to be there. In the eye of the storm.. [/quote] I remember seeing him for the first tine on a US variety show in 1965. His performance hit me as hard as when I first saw The Beatles perform. Blue *Probably saw Janes Brown live a dozen times.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1507669387' post='3387196'] You've answered your own question! The reason why most ads aren't for those bands is because they're incredibly rare, the ads that are there are for other types of bands - ones you're not interested in ! It sure is a shame we can't all find exactly the band we're after pretty much waiting for us, but you have to speculate to accumulate, otherwise aren't we expecting someone else to do the hard work for us ? The best way, IME to find musicians is to be in bands, and not all of those are making money and have gigs booked. Kiss some frogs - they may not turn into princes, but they may know frogs who will. [/quote] Yes, I would only be interested in what we call "turn key" opportunities. Where all the work has been done. In other words walking into a full book of business. But like you said those opportunities are rare and hardly ever advertised publicly. Unfortunately in my advance stage if the gigging cycle of life, I don't have the time or interest in new "start up" opportunities. The exception would be if any members were famous. Blue

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1507666403' post='3387170'] I often found that gigging was the necessary evil of being in a band. I aways enjoyed rehearsing with good mates, loved the no pressure vibe and all the banter/good naturedness. Gigging was sometimes as much fun, but most of the time not so. There's a sense in which rehearsing is equivalent to jogging, and gigging equivalent to entering a 5k race. I'm more than happy to jog [/quote] It depends on the band your specific band culture. In my case, first of all even after 12 years we have a blast at gigs however were not mates. The only time we really see each other is at gigs. IMO, I think it's the reason the band has stayed together this long. Blue

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1507669051' post='3387192'] I'm with you on this one. I've played well over 1300 gigs with my band over the last 21 years. If we're not rehearsed enough by now there's no hope for us. We tend to rehearse 2 to 3 times a year whether we need it or not purely to run through a bunch of new songs to refresh the set. I've always believed that live performances in front of an audience tighten a band up in a way that closed rehearsals never will. Practice can be fun but it's playing live that gets my blood pumping. With family commitments these days we're down to a couple of gigs a month now but once my kids are grown up I'll be looking to get back to doing 150+ gigs a year like we used to. Just hope there's a music scene to support that level of gigging by then. [/quote] I think it depends on the band and what your doing. My band does not rehearse , all of the progress we've made in getting are sound to happen was from gigging a lot. New bands or bands with young musicians with little to no experience, yeah I think rehearsals are a good idea. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1507665351' post='3387164'] What makes you think that..? I would be, if there [i]was [/i]any. When our local annual festival was going, I was fully active in that, and spent a great many week-ends out with a local ska/punk/rock band in their heyday. Too old and frail now for night-clubbing, which is just as well, as there are no local night-clubs. No, I fully support music of any sort, locally live or whatever. I was just remarking that, in past days, there have always been enthusiastic amateurs, hinting that professional musicians had few roles in such circuits. Pub/bar bands a re a very recent phenomenon, and have no reason to be perennial. You admit it yourself: you're more of a dinosaur, really. Your time has come and gone; it won't be coming back any time soon. For the record, I've just turned sixty-seven, and am quite reconciled to no longer treading the boards every week-end. Been there, done that etc... Just my tuppence-worth; no malice intended. [/quote] Support local live music when you can. I'm well into my 60s and I don't get out to see much as I use to. On weekends when I'm not gigging I really don't want to be in a bar or pub. However, that's not really cool because bands that play the same circuit that we play have come out to see us on their off night. Blue

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1507639513' post='3386893'] Putting your own advert up online or at rehearsal/recording studios, going to see other bands doing a similar thing and talking to those bands, form your [i]own[/i] band...more constructive than pursuing an avenue you know is unlikely to yield results and being surprised it yields little. [/quote] I've said this a million times. Very few have the ability, money ,skill, experience, contacts or other crucial resources to put together a "for profit"Rock band. Blue

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1507641857' post='3386926'] Yes - they got fed up with playing thousands of gigs abroad for drunken sailors, then playing stadia full of young girls who screamed so loudly you couldn't hear the music... [/quote] A lot of 12 year old females. But I think they cultivated that audience by design. Blue

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1507643324' post='3386941'] From your first post i get the feeling you have forgotten this as well. Not everyone wants to gig, not everyone wants to book gigs before they have a full band to play them. Whats the issue you have with this? Were they offering gigs that didnt exist? Did they string you along and tell you that they were going to be gigging. Im just trying to understand the mentality behind a thread like this. A band with no gigs looking for a bass player, cant be that much to talk about surely? [/quote] If there is an issue it's posting a want ad and not being clear on exactly what your offering. Blue

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1507649818' post='3386988'] ... and the bloke 'tickling the ivories' at his local, bashing out the post-war favourites on the ol' Joanna. He got paid in pints; often they'd take it in turns, to rest their hands and chat with their mates and neighbours. That was the 'live music' of traditional pubs for decades. Very few 'pro's on that circuit (Mrs Mills, maybe..?). There's nothing sacred about having rock groups (or even blues bands...) in pubs. Where I live, it's a very rare event, to have live music in bars, cafés or pubs. I must say I don't miss the 'attraction', either. [/quote] I take it your not a supporter of local live music? Blue

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1507663468' post='3387141'] Don’t get me wrong, I wasn’t criticizing someone for asking about money, if you are going for a paid gig then you should. My comment was more that I had put an ad up and was very clear about the state of the band, yet i had time wasters asking about money etc. If you earn a living from gigging why on earth call up a band that isn’t yet gigging, let alone one that is still looking for members. My point being, its not just those that put ads up that are time wasters, its also those that reply to them when they they don’t bother reading the ad (not pointing any fingers here, just saying). I appreciate in your situation the bands might not have been clear, but unless they lied to you in the ad then a phone call was all that was needed for you to decide if it was for you. I understand this is what happened so the point of this thread is what.? [/quote] All good points, we're on the same page. Just keep in mind some ads don't clearly state what they're offering. As we all know the really good opportunities in terms of gigs and good money are not advertised to the public. Blue