Misdee

 The new Stingray Specials solve a lot of the ergonomic shortcomings of the older Stingrays. They also sound magnificent and EBMM have addressed the problem of the weak G ect with the introduction of the neodymium pickup. Specials are light and comfortable to play with a powerful and punchy tone, everything you could want from a Stingray. 

Some folks think the Specials sound slightly mellower than the older Stingrays but all I can say is that to my ears the Specials are still very aggressive sounding basses if you want to use them that way. I used to have a very nice pre-EBMM Stingray and I don't remember it sounding significantly better (or even much different) to my Stingray Special.

I think Jonas is one of those exceptional players who has very definite ideas about what he wants, but his choices and preferences are not necessarily that suited to the mainstream.

29 minutes ago, three said:

I’d no idea re: Wal and the Hellborg power amp. Fascinating and I wonder if it remains in place? I’ve had quite a few of these amps and still have one. Massively heavy and according to a well known studio tech, the most over-built power amp he’d seen. That said, they are not at all a transparent amp - there’s a gritty baked-in tone that surprised me initially, to the extent that I thought it was a fault. Four or five units later, it’s evident that the grit is designed-in. I wonder whether this has any influence on the calibration of contemporary Wal electronics? Back on topic, i’ve watched in awe at the stratospheric price increases. I’ve owned a few Wals and played a lot (I’m a fan of the tone and the v profile, especially on the earlier basses) but found them a little uncomfortable, and in some respects a bit agricultural. The prices in the ‘90s - relative to other basses - seemed about right to me

The Hellborg amp at Wal headquarters back in the day isn't the Warwick-era version. It's a short-lived mid-1980's combo that I seem to remember was made in Italy. They had that amp in the workshop at High Wycombe back in the '80's. Jonas' had a signature bass made by an Italian company at that time too, might well have been the same company.

16 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Alan Spenner’s sound on Roxymusic albums (eg Avalon) is a classic Wal sound - makes use of the Q control (see also the Scotts Bass Lessons feature on them and on Flea - they also conclude the Q control gets that unique sound).

 

Otherwise, to me, they sound very Stingrayish (dual pick up version) or Sabre-like - perhaps a little more powerful. 
 

Re @Misdee query regarding Alan Spenner’s Wal, I saw him playing a gig at the beginning of the 80s with the Kokomo line up - during the gig he played a couple of solos one of which was slapped - I would say, from the sound, he was using roundwound strings. Also they covered a couple of Rose Royce songs and he got that Alembic type of sound famous on those later songs. From the mid 70s few people in the U.K. were interested in a flatwound bass sound (I don’t even remember them being readily available in shops) although its almost certain Bernard Edwards’ Stingray had the GHS flats which these shipped with until 1978 production (went to GHS rounds). His bass was/is a 77. 

I remember only too well how unwanted flat wound bass strings were back in the day. Most shops had Rotosound Jazz Bass flats in stock, from what I remember, just on the off chance a masochist walked in off the street wanting to restring his bass. I bought a set out of curiosity and found them completely unplayable. I didn't buy another set of flats for 30 years until I finally relented and got some Thomastiks about ten years ago.

I can easily envisage Alan Spenner using old rounds and making them sound akin to flats in certain situations, either intentionally or otherwise.

Re Bernard Edwards and the flats on his Stingray, he definitely changed to round wounds on that bass, I think after the second Chic album.

26 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

 

I'm sure he could have had one with a graphite neck if he had wanted. It must be the case that he preferred wooden necks, although that odd semi-hollow six string he had made had a graphite neck and he never seemed to do much with it. That one ended up on sale on this forum and was around for a while before it sold. There were a few Hellborg basses made with graphite necks in later years although none with the 36v preamp as far as I know.

 

Indeed I'd never heard anything about his Status signature bass being designed to sound like a Wal. Surely, multicoil pickups and a filter preamp would be needed for that. The famed 36v preamp was inspired by his love of a Neve desk with a boatload of headroom. The Status pickups were very clear and rich sounding. Even though his Warwick signature sounded fantastic, his tone with the Status basses when he was playing live with Shawn Lane and Jeff Super in the mid 90's was by far his best. Some of the best bass tone ever put to record, I think. 

 

 

 

Rob made  Jonas' bass from Utile and included the switchable parametric sweepable mid control to try give the bass a similar tone to his Wal. Can't remember if it was Rob or Jonas who mentioned it, but it's was one of the other.

13 hours ago, matski said:

According to the Gallery's website that one is the Wal used by Nick Beggs for 'Too Shy'. I'm not convinced that that claim to fame is worth the extortionate markup.

 

That bass has been doing the rounds for years. I tried to buy it from someone in Norfolk in about 1995 from a classified advert in Melody Maker (those were the days...) but it had already sold. It was £500-ish, if I remember correctly. There was no mention of it being Nick Beggs old bass at that time, though. It's only subsequently that came to light.

5 minutes ago, Russ said:

I recall that his signature Status had crazy 36V electronics, with four batteries! I loved the design, with the downsized body - shame it was during Status' wooden neck phase (which they appear to have gone back to), would have loved to have seen one with a graphite neck. 

Rob went on to make a few with graphite necks as special orders.

On 08/02/2024 at 16:59, drTStingray said:

I haven’t seen Alan Spenner or Percy Jones mentioned but they got/get a specific sound and were probably amongst the most prominent of players of Wals. Alan Spenner can be heard on many Roximusic tracks but the Wal sound appears on the late 70s ones such as Avalon and Jealous Guy. Percy Jones is on the Brand X stuff and got a very distinctive sound. I was lucky enough to see both of them live in the late 70s/early 80s and they sounded excellent. 
 

I followed Alan Spenner’s career from the late 60s - he was a Precision player until getting the Wal in the mid 70s. Whilst he sounded good on a Precision the Wal made his playing really come to life as you could actually hear the detail of his playing. Leo Lyons also used one on a mid 80s live performance with one of the several reformed versions of Ten Years After - this one with the original line up - same effect - you could hear the detail of his playing and it was a fuller sound compared with his customary Jazz. 
 

Stingrays get reasonably close to Wals in the right hands but the Wal really scores with the ‘Q’ control - in fact the Scott’s Bass Lessons feature on them discusses this - it is the stand out difference between a Wal and anything else and also features on those Alan Spenner tracks (PS is it just me or is Scott appearing with basses which are more and more wrecked looking - they all appear to need a decent repaint in my view - just look decidedly tatty and old fashioned 😀😉)

 

I would still like a Wal (I prefer the detailed and full sound rather than the current fad for bass sounds where much is inaudible or even worse, plodding in the background). However some of the prices are eye watering - we have the sh*te exchange rate to blame for that, as it’s quite attractive for Americans to buy them - silly political choices eh…….. 

Alan Spenner really featured the characteristic sound of a Wal bass on those Roxy albums. I'd love to get a definitive answer on whether he used rounds or flats on that bass. It's very difficult to tell. Anyhow, it sounds great, and what a player he was. Died tragically young and I think if he had lived longer he would have got the widespread recognition and respect he deserved. A superb musician.

I have to respectfully disagree that a Stingray can approach the tone of a Wal; I have long thought the two of being the antithesis of one another.  The Stingray has got that baked-in zing  and a hollowness in the mids that is it's calling card. I think what they do have in common is that both basses  sound big and hefty. In their own respective ways they've  got an inherently beefy tone.

On 06/02/2024 at 10:28, cetera said:

I still have my 80's Mk1 fretless which isn't going anywhere....

However, I sold my 9.5 condition 'Geddy spec' black & gold Wal Mk1 fretted last year for £11K 😎

 

It wasn't leaving the storage facility as I was worried about it getting damaged or worse..... and I wanted the money for family travel & life experiences. I don't see used prices for similar getting any higher so I think I timed my sale well....

They say the best deals are when everyone walks away happy and this sounds like one of those occasions.

11k? I expect you treated yourself to fish and chips that night.😊

Jonas' signature Status bass was designed to sound as close as possible to his Wal, apparently.

I think Wal basses most certainly do have a unique tone, and I have yet to hear any of the would-be imitators nail that sound. Just because a bass has a filter preamp that doesn't mean that it will sound like a Wal. It might sound good in it's own right, but Wal basses have got their own sonic identity.

Alembic basses, by way of contrast, use a filter preamp and have a wonderful tone of their own, but they sound nothing like a Wal. Construction ( as well as electronics) also plays a significant role in the overall tone of the instrument.

Wal basses have got that fat midrange that is so useful for a bass guitar. It's a beautiful thing, for sure.

Lots of basses, both new and "vintage"" are overpriced in the current market. Wal basses are a prime example, but  I think 1970's Fenders are also ridiculously expensive considering what someone is actually getting for the money. 

Partly it's a generational thing. If you weren't playing bass in the late '70s into the late '80s then certain instruments can hold a certain mystique. That's because of famous players who use(d) them and romantic associations we make with that music. 

If you were immersed in all things bass back in those days then there's much more chance that you have experience of the mundane reality of those"classic" instruments. Yes, they had certain strengths but they also had potential drawbacks and pitfalls.  Allowing for inflation, they were also proportionately much less expensive.

£6000+ for a used Wal Custom is a bit ridiculous to me, but it's more understandable than  £2000 -£3000 for a late '70's Fender in so much as Wal basses have a unique tone.  By comparison, those Fenders have neither an otherwise unattainable sound or substantial build quality. If you want a Fender-style bass you can do better elsewhere. 

Whether used Wal prices have peaked, I doubt,. That's because there's a buoyant market for them fuelled by influential big-name players, limited supply of new instruments and big demand particularly from the USA. A strong dollar means that UK-based Wal basses up for sale are appealing to American buyers.

On 21/10/2022 at 09:53, Rib13Bass said:

 One of my favorite pick bass tones was Jimmy Bain on Dio's Holy Diver......come to find out it was a Yamaha BB2000....I was totally impressed and I'm not a pick player 

I remember seeing Jimmy Bain playing a BB1200 with Wild Horses back in the late '70's. He must have progressed on to the BB2000 and subsequently BB3000.

Regarding the BB2000, maybe there's something about a reverse P pickup that works well for a grindy rock pick tone; look at the Spector NS2/ Warwick Streamer ect.

4 hours ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

 

Sorry to have upset you. However, good news is that the green one is not called lime green but "mantis green". Any better? 😉 

from 1:35

 

 

I just watched that video. In those lighting conditions the (ahem ..) Mantis Green doesn't look quite so virulent. I  still couldn't say I like it, but it's not so bad as in the  photo. 

4 hours ago, Eldon Tyrell said:

 

 

At the beginning of the video, AJ mentions that the CDE is "starting with the Stingray". So, maybe the Bongo will be next?

 

 

Would be nice if that's how things progress. I'd love a Bongo with a maple board and a vivid colour scheme, just not one that burns my retinas and makes me wince every time I look at it. 

7 minutes ago, BassAgent said:

Is 500 quid a beginner-level price point?

Considering what everyday things cost in the UK nowadays,  I would say so, yes. Young people (most likely to be beginners)in particular spend ridiculous amounts of their parents money on things like smashed avocado, Starbucks and McDonald's et al. that £500 for a bass is not untoward. What does a decent coat cost nowadays?

If I was twelve years old again I would demand a family meeting to tell my parents in no uncertain terms that they need to get me one of these basses or the likelihood is that I will become yet another tragic victim of knife crime on the blood-soaked streets of Broken Britain. I'm sure they would see sense.

On 29/01/2024 at 17:08, Eldon Tyrell said:

Looks like they have something to tempt you after all:

3 new colours for the Bongo: lime green (don't know which fancy name EBMM will give it) with maple fretboard, blood orange (with rosewood fingerboard) and one in satin grey (called titan grey)

New features: maple fretboard on the lime coloured one (first time ever, according to AJ), oil and wax finish, and stainless steel frets

 

2 new Darkray colours too: dark rainbow and gold bar. 

 

from 08:50:

 

Well that has fair upset me. 

Three new colours for the Bongo and they're all crap. Lime green? I'm a middle aged man with prostate issues, not a skateboard kid in a punky ska band. If it was Seafoam Green with a maple board EBMM could have my money right now. Or Fiesta Red or something else a bit more classic.

EBMM Blood Orange is essentially Cherry Sunburst ( not my thing)and Titan Grey is not my cup of tea either. What a waste. And presumably the Bongo is excluded from the custom options they are threatening for the Stingray Special. 

Relatively inexpensive basses have been a revelation to me since I got my Harley Benton Shorty. Okay, so the tuning pegs fell off when I went to change the strings for the first time but so what? For £80 it's got a right to self-destruct at some point. In the meantime I have had all kinds of fun playing it.

If your a proper muso then playing a cheap bass is a bit like riding a moped  i.e it's very enjoyable until someone you want to impress sees you doing it.

👍🙂

That looks like a nice bass to me. Beginner-level price point basses have come on a bit since I was a lad, that's for sure. 

It's also a bit disappointing that EBMM have started treating the Bongo a bit like a ginger haired stepchild. Only two crap colours and one pickup configuration available ect. Ironically, the Bongo would look great in some of these new finishes.  I love the Bongo and would  cheerfully buy another if EBMM would make the effort to tempt me. 

For my taste, these new standard colours for the Stingray Special are bloody awful. The only inoffensive ones are the black one and the Black Rock. The Candyman does indeed need black pickup covers and either a white or black pickguard. The rest are all far too Liberace for my taste.

Maybe this latest selection is so conspicuously unappealing in order to usher prospective punters towards the soon to be available custom order service.

I recently bought a Stingray Special and would like another to give me a choice between rounds and flats. I am intrigued what  options EBMM will be offering to tempt me, but it better be good. A new  ordinary Stingray Special is overpriced for what it is, and no doubt a custom one will be too.

31 minutes ago, diskwave said:

Eh?. Placing the wonderous Mr Giblin to one side for a mo. Karn is equally as good as Pino he just didnt get the commercial exposure Pino got with Paul Youngs hugo massivo hits.  Equally superb workers of the fretless animal.

I think a significant difference is that Pino and John Giblin both had a much more formalised and conventional approach to playing bass than Mick Karn. That made them much more suited to mainstream session work than Mick Karn, who's style was probably just a bit too idiosyncratic for some artists and producers.

1 hour ago, Frank Blank said:

I feel particularly lucky to have seen Japan twice, both times at Hammersmith Odeon in 1981 *christ...* I still listen to Modern English, the support band for the first gig. Just reminiscing to myself really, nothing to see here...

 

Tickets available from £2.50. Those were the days...

Mick Karn was always a maverick. It's not really that useful to compare him to Jaco Pastorius in so much as Jaco was an educated musician whereas MK played by instinct. Mick was always very frank about his disregard for conventional technique and saw it as a strength rather than a shortcoming. 

Jaco was from a completely different idiom steeped in tradition and scholarship. His jazz background is what defined his style and put him streets ahead of the competition.

They're both magnificent in my estimation and I enjoy them both tremendously. Mick Karn was a mesmerising talent back in the early '80's and surely a fretless icon forevermore.

1 hour ago, AndyTravis said:

It’s mad - if you hear “you can do it” from Tragic Kingdom, very busy but clean as a whistle, then “hella good” - like 3 notes…

 

he’s epic - and in my all time top 5 players.

 

humble and chilled too.

 

Dreamcar his recent project are amazing too.

It's really refreshing to hear a bass player who isn't afraid to deviate from the orthodoxy of "less is more" and who has the taste and skills to make busy playing serve the songs in such a compelling way. 

 For my taste, Tony Kanal is one of the best bass players of recent times. Such creative and interesting bass lines.