Misdee

5 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

We're all different. Peoples' attitudes to instruments range from purely functional/utilitarian - it's a tool to do a job - to aesthetic/personal - it's the instrument they feel at home with or the one they had built in exotic hardwoods that they've always dreamed of owning . Nowt wrong with that and we're all at our own particular point along that range of opinion.

 

The original question - would you rather have 8 HBs or one high end bass - is a bit wide of the mark, in that it represents two extremes. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. We have one or two basses we really like and play most of the time, plus a beater or two that are handy for gigs in iffy circumstances or for when the kids want to mess around with them.

There's no need for folks who enjoy the aesthetics dimension of various basses to apologise. I'm certainly in  that category, and as long as I can remember there has been a implicit assumption from self-styled savvy "muso" types that if you aspire to or own some nice basses then you can't be a good player. This is,of course, complete bollocks.

I've been fascinated by bass equipment since I started playing, and I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. Other folks can judge all they like. I'll probably be too busy adjusting the neck relief on my fretless bass to notice.

I've tried both the basses you mention and they are much more comfortable all round, for my taste anyway. I lived in the Bay Area at the time they were new models and in stock at local music shops.

It's worth pointing out that Alembic were the original custom bass builder, and they can build anything you want. If you can afford it they will use their formidable  skills to help you get your dream bass. If I won the lottery (would need to start buying a ticket first, but ...) one of my first acts would be to contact Alembic and set out my design brief. I'd probably go along the lines of a Balance K Omega with a chambered body. Never tried one but the balance and playability is supposed to be much improved. It's also just about the most beautiful Alembic I've ever seen.

28 minutes ago, Beedster said:

 

If I could afford to own a Wal I wouldn't need to gig the Dog and Duck on free beer night 👍

I know for a fact that back in the day, Pete and Wal took great pride in the fact that their basses were in the hands of "ordinary" working musicians and that they were out there doing pub gigs ect with the basses they had made. I expect they would be a bit bemused by their basses becoming too valuable to gig for some players. A big part of that company was that they were happy to service the basses, whether you bought them new or used. There was no need to treat a Wal bass with kid gloves. And they weren't anywhere near as expensive as nowadays anyway.

Don't know anything about the Human Base.

The Stingray 5 is a great bass in many respects.  However, potential pitfalls, depending on your personal preference, are the weight, the 17.5 mm string spacing and the G string having a tendency to slip off the edge of the fingerboard.  

The Status is a great bass too, but very different. They've got their own inherently modern tone and feel. I seem to remember 18mm string spacing, so a bit wider than the MM 5. 

Either would be eminently suitable for pop/ funk, albeit in slightly different ways.

A great bass can isn't necessarily an expensive bass though, and an expensive bass isn't necessarily great. You can definitely find some gems that don't cost a fortune but they are few and far between.

I've played and owned some excellent inexpensive basses that were useful and satisfying instruments. I've played and owned some high-end basses that were poorly made, badly designed and not worth the asking price. 

A great example would be the JV Squire basses I had back in the early 1980's when they were new.  I had a Jazz and then a P Bass too. At the time they were the best I could afford, and I was just waiting to buy something more modern with active electronics ect, as was the fashion at the time. I eventually got through loads of high-end basses, good, bad and  indifferent. Now 40-odd years later armed with knowledge and experience, when I can have anything I want, I would be perfectly happy with the JV Squire basses.

 In the days before  internet forums I had no idea that Rickenbacker basses had a questionable reputation for quality.

I have wanted a Rickenbacker since before I played bass. In fact, one of the reasons I started playing was so I had a reason to get a Jetglo Rickenbacker. Still never had one though,due to the fact every time I pick one up I'm reminded  of the multiple reasons why I can't play them. 

Funnily enough, I'm in the market for a relatively inexpensive bass at the moment.  Even funnier than that though, is that  all the ones I want turn out to be out of stock and currently unavailable.

I've already got a Harley Benton, by the way, and for the money it cost it's been terrific value considering the fun I've had playing it.

I'm definitely not knocking less expensive basses, just questioning the aspiration to collect them for the sake of having a collection. Versatility is one of the most overrated qualities in a musician. Most of the greats have developed a unique style because they use their limitations creatively. Most of the best famous players have a signature sound, rather than a plethora of tones for different situations. 

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

I've got 8 Rickenbackers.

Put one string on each and you've got a Rickenbacker 8 string.

33 minutes ago, Boodang said:

For me, ‘inherently robust’ means clunky with mediocre hardware. Why play mediocre when you play class…. Life is too short for mediocre!

When Forest Gump said "Life's like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get" he could just as well said "Life's like getting a new Fender..." You definitely get good ones and not so good ones. 

My experience though, is that some( not all) super-Fender boutique basses lose the essence of what makes a Fender so good. It's that grit and grunt thing. 

1 hour ago, MrDinsdale said:

I wouldn’t sink loads of money into something I knew I was going to beat the hell out of. First gig with my Schecter and the guitar launched his guitar into it and made a big dent, had it been a £2500 bass I’d have been gutted. I also don’t think I would have noticed any difference in that context between a well setup £500-600 instrument vs a high end one.

 

I wouldn't buy a Porsche to do school/shopping runs, I would however want something reliable and cost effective to run.

 

If I was a plumber I wouldn’t be rocking my diamond emblazoned gucci overalls to work 🤷‍♂️

I can see your reasoning, but one of the beauties of  Fender basses (and Leo's other designs, for that matter)is that they're inherently robust. And they still looks alright when they've got some wear on them. Like a pair of jeans, if you want an appropriate clothing analogy.

I'd have one decent bass over several cheap crap ones. That's just my preference, and I respect other people may make different choices and have different priorities in their lives.

Each to their own, but I'm often surprised by how many folks seem to acquire lots of entry level basses rather than progress to better quality instruments. It's the opposite of my own sensibilities.  For a long time I only had one bass, or two at the most, but they were always pretty good ones and sufficient for my needs. Whatever held me back, it wasn't the bass.

I can actually remember when Capri Orange was a current Fender colour back in the late 70's/early '80's. My local music shop had a Jazz Bass this colour and another in very vibrant yellow. Beyond my pocket at the time, but those were better days than now, that's for sure.

Looks like a smashing bass. GLWTS.

I'm feeling a lot better about not buying an Alembic now. 

3 hours ago, NikNik said:

If it's any consolation, when I finally got a Series 1 Point, I found it too heavy, too unwieldy, and a real stretch to low F. I barely had it a year.

That's the first thing I thought when I played an Alembic bass. But back then I thought the fault was with me, because it's an Alembic and if  JPJ, John Entwhistle, Stanley Clarke et al can play them then so should I be able to, too. 

19 hours ago, peteb said:

 

I once got the train down to London, fully intending to buy an Alembic from the Bass Centre. It was one of the lower priced models (maybe an Epic??), up at £995 in the mid 90s. I picked it up and played it, but didn't like the neck. I didn't even plug it in! 

 

It would have been nice to own an Alembic for a bit, but that bass just didn't feel right for me. I ended up buying a red Warwick Streamer LX from a shop in Leeds a couple of weeks later, which I gigged for many years! 

 

An old Streamer LX is still the best Warwick I ever played. Good choice.

I  also took the train down to the Bass Centre at Wapping to buy a "budget" Alembic.  Must have been 1992 and it was an Essence. They had two, but they sold the one I wanted the day before. I didn't fancy the maple one, and I was less than enthusiastic about the neck profile anyway, so it's not just you. I too left empty handed.

On 21/05/2024 at 12:58, Chris2112 said:

 

On the whole, I think Alembic pickups and electronics are very reliable despite their relative complexity. I can think of very few occasions when I've heard of their electronics going wrong. They usually have an excellent reputation for customer service (when you can get in touch with them, which is admittedly often difficult), so I'm surprised that there were issues in this case.

 

Of course, playing an Alembic with the full Series electronics and outboard power unit is a commitment in itself. You can't just plug and play like you can with a Fender, some sound men just won't have a preset fit to suit your fancy bass etc, you need to drag the brick around with you or find an alternative power source etc. If you can live with that, you'll enjoy a really fine bass with a great tone.

Regards customer service, we're talking about more than thirty years ago, pre-internet ect. Transatlantic communication was a lot more difficult and a lot more expensive.

I think the issue with Alembic basses inherent complexity is essentially that of durability. Despite the  undoubted quality there's a lot to go wrong or wear out. When it does sometimes only Alembic can fix it properly if you want your bass to stay at factory spec. I suppose it just depends on how careful you are and what kind of use the bass is getting. The proprietary electronics and overall design are by their very nature esoteric and if you want a full-tilt Alembic that's part of the deal.

FWIW, Wal basses are similar in certain respects regarding serviceability. That's a whole other thread. 

8 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

Mine is 8.6lbs.

That must be a Paul Herman-era bass. 

Without wishing to cause controversy or upset anybody, the more recent Wal basses are a different proposition to the vintage ones. Yes they cost more, but they are better made with more attention to fine detail. That's why I can't say the new basses are ridiculously overpriced. Their cost and overall quality is in line with other builders offering the best instruments money can buy.

And FWIW, for my taste only Alembic basses can rival Wal in terms of tone.

 Like it says in the Old Testament, thou  shalt not covet thy neighbours Wal.

I was brought up with the understanding that a deal is a deal. Both parties are honour-bound to stick to what's been agreed. Before you agree a deal by all means thrash out the best terms for yourself that you can, but whatever you finally agree on you've got to stick to. 

This whole thing with Wal basses has got a bit daft. They're great basses with a unique tone and great history but they're not worth getting involved in a blind auction with spiraling prices just because of dwindling supply and burgeoning demand. I remember when Wal basses were fairly commonplace. No one was gazumping each other to get one back then. Buying a bass is one thing, selling your soul is something else entirely. There's plenty of other nice basses out there. 

I'm not having a go at the new owner particularly, I think his only real crime is over-enthusiasm. Good people often make errors of judgement, doesn't make them wicked. And the American chap still has his money  intact to buy something even better when he sees it. 

I remember that review! It was Rob Burns, a devoted Wal enthusiast from what I recall, who got to try it out and he was well impressed.

I played a nearly identical example at the Bass Centre in Wapping around that time. It was epic, but heavy. Still, I would have bought it if I'd had the money at the time. 

I seem to remember the late and fondly remembered Pete Academy of this parish recounted how he bought a 20th Anniversary from the Bass Centre and had an ongoing problem with the pickups, which after much tooing and froing had to be replaced. Apparently it was a right carry-on lasting months and he was not best pleased, quite understandably. Maybe I had a lucky escape. 

That's one of the down-sides of a fairly complex design that can be quite temperamental, I suppose.

I've wanted an Alembic since I first started playing when I was twelve years old. It's always been the ultimate bass to me. I've never had one but that's no tragedy in the scheme of things. Sometimes it's better to travel hopefully than arrive and all that. The practical reality is that I find the ergonomics of the classic LSB a bit difficult to get on with, and the weight  would also a bit much for me nowadays.  

That doesn't mean however, that I don't still get excited whenever I see an Alembic bass and occasionally think about getting one. There's a mystique to them that no other brand can match, quite rightly too because they have been such an iconic and innovative bass maker for so long. 

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

 

I play a Mike Lull PJ5. It's a boutique bass in every sense.

 

If I could find a P bass at half the price that played and sounded as good as my Lull I'd buy it in a heartbeat. 

 

Until then the Lull will have to do.

If it's a vintage P Bass you find it might be twice the price of the Lull rather than half the price. 

I've got a nice USA Lakland PJ that I play more than anything else.  It's probably the equivalent of your Lull. It sounds great, but not really different to a good Fender bass. I've had it a long time and it's a superb amalgamation of the best things about old Fender basses and modern construction. Just a very very useful bass. It's much better made than a Fender but in sonic terms it's essentially the same.

That's no bad thing because Fenders sound good, but contrary to a lot of what I see on YouTube from supposed experts, if there is a better rendition of the Fender tone then it's a subtle difference with all of these basses. I'm talking about basses like  Moolon and Olinto et al. I'm not including Sadowsky because that's all about the preamp and how it compliments the bass overall. 

What about the phenomena of the boutique P Bass? 

There was a time when you bought a boutique bass specifically because it wasn't a P Bass, i.e it gave you a sound that you couldn't get existing mass-produced instruments.  Now that exotic hifi-sounding basses are out of fashion ( have been for a long time now) the high-end bass market is flooded with new versions of the Fender Precision Bass, in one guise or another.

Bass makers are lying awake at night trying to think up new ways to sell bass players costly new versions of that venerable design. Lots of the folks buying boutique P Basses already have a P Bass, but they want a better rendition, presumably.

I find this interesting because I love a good P Bass myself. I have played and owned some very good boutique P Basses. But no matter how good they were/are in certain respects like overall construction and playability, I just can't get away from the fact that they all sounded like a Precision Bass. In sonic terms none of them offered any advantage over a good mass-produced version. Don't get my wrong, some of them were great basses but if they were/are qualatively better than a good Fender in terms of sound then it's lost on me.

12 hours ago, itu said:

Hit me with your... by Ian Dury: what's the bass in the video, an Alembic, maybe?

Definitely an Alembic.

39 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

A cheap fender style bass sounds nothing like a 63 precision, or any vintage basses I’ve got or had, just my opinion 

I agree, but a cheaper Fender-style bass sounds more like a Fender than a cheap  would-be exotic wood boutique style bass sounds like a Fodera or Alembic ect. There's that identifiable characteristic Fender-style tone, even if it's nowhere near as good as a decent Fender.

I'm a Fender fan myself, by the way. Just wanted to make that clear. 

There's some expensive basses that have a unique sound -Alembic and Wal for instance - and if you want that sound you have to spend that kind of money. There's also lots of expensive basses that, to my ears,don't have a particularly distinctive or unique tone. That's a whole other discussion/Basschat argument.

Expensive Fender-style bass can be the most perplexing sub-category in so much as, strictly in terms of tone, a decent inexpensive model can be hard to distinguish from a boutique example, or indeed a genuine vintage bass.

I think it's a mistake  though, to assume that all people get from buying a bass is something they need to perform a practical task with.  Throughout history musical instruments have been regarded as beautiful objects, imbued with magical properties in many ancient cultures. Not   aspiring to the best quality basses for practical reasons doesn't justify dismissing  the aesthetic dimension of high-end basses.

Also, one of the defining characteristics of modern society is that the things we buy or  want to buy are symptomatic of our wider aspirations and how we want to imagine ourselves. If you identify yourself as a bass player then buying basses is very much part of that psychology.