wishface

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1421398218' post='2660674'] [url="http://www.rosegardenmusic.com/"]Rosegarden...[/url] [/quote] Thanks, i've downloaded that. Looks a bit involved though. Not sure I want to learn software in order to learn music theory as well. I'll go into the muysic shop in town tomorrow and see if they still have either of those books in town. The more academic of the shops has more of the theory books than Guitar Soloist Central aka PMT It's been a while since I used a sequencer and i've never found them particularly easy to use, especially without proper tools/keyboard. To quote Jah Wobble "midi is hell"

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1421351242' post='2660320'] There's so much free stuff on the internet that you might not need books at all. Especially for theory, and that's where the really big payoff is imo. Honest, get a free sequencer for your PC and start making harmonies. You'll love it and you'll learn buckets. And you don't get blisters. [/quote] do you know anything that works on ubuntu?

Well, as I aid I can't afford the lessons. I don't know about the books. Which one would be best? Will either give me what I want? The Hal Leonard book is cheaper, but starts at a very basic level (covering technique as well as some theory; it's not just theory), while the Jazz book is very expensive and possibly rather dry (and oritented to one style of music).

What do you mean?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1421182324' post='2658241'] Maybe you could reveal your location, either in this topic or in your Profile..? Someone may be closer to you than you think..? Just a thought; [/quote]I live in North Somerset

[quote name='Joe Hubbard Bass' timestamp='1421233526' post='2658644'] Hi Wishface Check out my video bass lessons website where you can get weekly lessons that are structured and based on the "real-world" music concepts that Jeff Berlin talks about. Also, on the same page notice what Jeff Berlin says about me> http://www.joehubbardbassvideos.com/bassment/ Best Joe [/quote]Thanks, but I can't afford that.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421163240' post='2657859'] Mark Levine's Jazz Theory book is the only one you need if all you are looking for is music theory. If you get that (£27 on Amazon?), you will have pretty much all of the information you will ever need. The problem is the application of that information. Without some direction from others, you may struggle to apply some of the information you gather. The reason it is called Jazz Theory is because most pop/funk etc music is based on significant degrees of repetition and a book of 'pop' theory would be very short A lot of the greatest Pop artist are actually backed up by monster Jazz players/composers/arrangers (e.g. Michael Jackson/Quincy Jones, Earth, Wind and Fire was started by ex-Miles Davis Jazzers. Steely Dan records are chock full of Jazzers, as are/were Sting, Madonna, Whitney Houston, Chaka Khan, Ricki Lee Jones, James Taylor etc etc. The list is endless). The notes are the same; it is the application of theories that defines. Classical theory is not that different in terms of the 'maths' (8-note scales) but the application is VERY different and orchestration and instrumentation are much more important. [/quote]That book sounds great but I think it might overwhelm me if I try and tackle it alone.

[quote name='DaveFry' timestamp='1421180332' post='2658198'] Find some local jazzers , hang out and ask there . If you're sincere with them , they'll help . Maybe listen first and approach someone whose playing ( any instrument ) you like . [/quote] I think I need to be playing with actual people. Not necessarily jazz 'cats', I'm not overly keen on learning Jazz per se, more learning theory. Although being able to play badass fast walking lines is always impressive Unfortunately there aren't a lot of opportunities locally (in the sticks) and I don't have transport.

THanks. I'm sure a teacher would be ideal, but as I say I can't afford one. I don't really know where i would find a [i]good [/i]one. Everyone that plays an instrument thinks they can teach. Whether they can or not is another matter.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1421151815' post='2657642'] You seem to be missing the point I made earlier about starting from [b]ground zero.[/b] Taking in snippets of information here and there is not going to help if you have not put in the ground work. It just causes frustration and further confusion. There is a lot of more basic stuff to get under your belt before you work on chord substitution. As you seem not to be aware of exactly how chords are derived from scales and how to harmonize a major scale, learning about chord substitution at this stage is futile IMO. This is what I meant earlier about having lessons where one builds on what went before. That "Bass Method" book is one of the best out there (IMO of course [size=4] ) for learning basic theory.....regardless of what genre you are interested in. It does not cost that much to buy, so why not give it a try ?[/size] [size=4]​In the [/size]absence[size=4] of a teacher, you could do a lot worse.[/size] [/quote]I may give it a try, but right now i'm not in the music shops I only asked about the II/V thing because it piqued my curiosity when I heard it. I don't know what stuff I would need to understand before grasping that (i understand the theory behind it, i'm just curious why it's a thing - after all you can use any chord in any sequence, in theory ), for all i know I may know it! I don't have an objective methodology to call on to test because i've never studied formally. So what does the Jazz book cover, if anything, that the Hal Leonard book doesn't?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1421148939' post='2657579'] [size=4]You want more..? We've got more... Have a go at this (there are other sources...), which will explain all, and more. Well written, progressive; almost a 'bible'... [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jazz-Theory-Book-Mark-Levine/dp/1883217040/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421148608&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Jazz+Theory+Book"]The Jazz Theory Book ...[/url][/size] [attachment=180808:Jazz_Theo_Book.jpg] [size=4]Once you've mastered all there is in there, you'll be doing well. Don't be put off by the 'jazz' in the title, it's solid musical information which applies to much modern music. For purely 'classical', or orchestral, music, there are other tomes.[/size] [/quote] Surely music theory is music theory? What makes that the JAZZ theory book?

I understand the theory, but where do ideas like this come from. Those are two different sounding chords even with the tritone. Is this a blues thing?

Are the books complete? How deep do they go? Is it worth getting something more complete if not? There are a LOT of books out there to choose from, some good some not so good. I read, quite by accident, that a flat IIm7 chord can substitute for a V 7 chord - something like that. How does that work? Or, more importantly, why?

What I mean by intellectual, is the position of having some theory (like knowing scales), but not how to use it. You need to learn how to use that information and what it means otherwise it's just knowledge without wisdom.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421088282' post='2657038'] How long is a piece of string? You need to learn MUSIC nor bass guitar, that is all. I was thinking about this the other day when I saw a book called Scales for Bass Guitar (or something to that effect). Whatever scales exist, exist for every instrument not just one You may not live near a college that offers bass guitar studies but I guarantee you will live near a pianist who can point you in the right direction. Where are you based? That may help people on here guide you. Obviously you need to apply your learning to bass but the let the music guide you. As for Tal, she ios a cool player but not really advanced in any sense. I play regularly with musicians that leave me open-mouthed with how good they are and I ma gradually being dragged along in their slipstream. It's the music that does it, not the instrument. Find some musicians that take you places you may not otherwise go. Talk to pianists, guitarists, sax players etc NOT bass guitarists. They are mostly full of s*** PS I haven't played with Tal, obviously, but I have done a gig with Jason Rebello, his keyboard player. A great experience and I learned a lot. [/quote]I don't really know any musicians, been a long time since I was in a band. Yes I want to learn music/theory. I don't know how advanced Tal is, but she seems to have gone from being a 16yo aussie kid to playing with some of the world's most renowned musicians in a heartbeat! That doesn't happen for everyone, not without some serious skills. I've no idea whether she reads music or whatever. That said, I don't think she has a particularly unique voice on the bass, but then my favourite musicians aren't readers or theory experts (afaik) and consequently i've followed intheir footsteps more or less. [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1421088516' post='2657047'] First, dont be too hard on yourself. No matter how good you are, there will always be someone better. Comparing yourself to the likes of Victor Wotton is a recipe for frustration and disillusionment......for [i]most[/i] people. [size=4]IMO the normal advice of "[/size][i]get a teacher"[/i][size=4] applies here. If you have trouble finding a good one in your area, you could consider lessons via [/size]Skype[size=4]. [/size] [size=4]When you say you "know" scales...do you..?[/size] [size=4]1) Know how chords are derived from scales ?[/size] [size=4]2) Know how to harmonize the major scale ?.. i.e. do you know all the diatonic chords and why some are Maj and some minor ?[/size] [size=4]3) Know about intervals ?[/size] [size=4]​If the answer is NO to the above, then in the [/size]absence[size=4] of a teacher, this is a good place to start IMO.[/size] [size=4]A great site that explains theory in very easy to understand way is www.studybass.com[/size] [/quote] I'm not a huge fan of his music, but Victor Wooten seems to be the template for bass excellence, plus he seems like a nice guy which is always a pain in the arse! So in a sense it does bug me because part of me would like to be that good. That may be ego, though I wouldn't play the music he plays. At least I don't think I would. But this isn't so much about technique as it is about knowing music. I can't afford lessons right now, so I need a different study method. A book or something, preferrably one that's not too esoteric. I have a few resources of my own but i've always found theory, proper theory (not just knowing patterns of notes - scales etc), to be difficult to comprehend. In answer to your questions: 1. I think so. the first third and fifth of the scale are the major chord, and in a similar pattern chords are built off each note inthe scale (so Dm is built off the second of the C scale, or the first of the D minor scale). Then you get all the weird scales with the more intense chords like augmented and diminished stuff. But I couldn't tell you the purpose of them or what you are meant to do with them, if that makes any sense, other than stick them togethter in an arbitrary way and...there's your song. 2. Other than 'major sounds happy' and 'minor sounds sad' (which is all relative) not really. I could harmonise the scale, if i'm understanding you correctly, but only as an intellectual exercise, which is the problem. 3. I think so. But again this is all intellectual stuff. I have no way of knowing if my understanding of even that is correct. When I look at a bass line like Teen Town, which i've been trying to teach myself (i'm not really a fan of his stuff with Weather Report or them at all, but I'm interested in it as a study piece) and the melodies and lines are largely chromatic. It's not at all what i'm used to, copping Rush licks for instance.

Recently I've been on a quest to improve. Nothing new there. However I've been watching some of Jeff Berlin's Player's School of Music clips where he tosses out the odd quick lesson. I know he's a controversial figure in terms of musical education and that he favours, FWIW, jazz as the best way to learn music. I'm not jazz's biggest fan, but I can see where he's coming from. What I would like is to learn what he's talking about. What he seems to be saying is that a bass player, or indeed any musician, should learn music first and foremost and that everything else comes after (within reason). Now as someone that's been playing for a while now, I have some technical facility (I can play notes and have a reasonable grasp of the neck), but I ought to learn the theory so that I know what I'm playing, why, and where I can go. This is something that, while I know some scales and chords, I don't have. I can string a chord sequence together, like most players, but I need to learn that something that makes it all clear. What can you recommend for this? I don't know any teachers, I don't live in America so paying JB's school for lessons is not on the table Otherwise I'm starting to think i've wasted 20 odd years playing. For example when i started playing there was mention of this up and coming player called Victor in Bass Player magazine, now in the time i've been flailing around learning Geezer Butler licks or Geddy Lee parts (great players both), he's climbed to the top of the mountain! Or that young girl that plays with Jeff Beck who's half my age (she looks about 12 ffs!) who seems to have that kind of harmonic understanding - or at least must have to ge to play with people like Jeff!

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1419765763' post='2642481'] Its not mechanics of the fingers, it is what you are used to. It is no harder from two than three, if you are used to it. All I was trying to say before is that only you can say if it will be that useful to you [/quote]I'm not talking about difficulty, but of the mechanics of the fingers. The first two are just more strong and more independent. Obviously if you're used to 3 fingers then you've been using them enough to compensate/build up strength.

[quote name='umpdv5000' timestamp='1419765318' post='2642475'] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]@wishface ...[/size][/font] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]Out of interest, what is the make and model of your bass?[/size][/font] [/quote]Revelation RBJ67

I have it more or less intonated (for practical purposes it's about 99%). The E string was the toughest and is a few cents out. I can't really do any more, the strings probably need to settle.

[quote name='Michael J' timestamp='1419709454' post='2642147'] A greater facility in crossing from any string to any other string, it gives you options. Having said that, whilst I started out with two-finger walking on bass, I'm now pretty much just using the index finger. It won't stay that way, but it's good enough at the moment. I think I should spend some time with just the middle, then just the ring, then back to guitar alternations. [/quote]I haven't noticed a greater facility in string crossing. In fact that's why I rbought this up. Perhaps it takes a lot of time to develop, but i find crossing strings between the 3rd and 2nd finger (if you assume playing strict 3rd 2nmd and 1st finger alternation when picking) a lot harder due to the 'mechanics' of the fingers. Is this something I want to spend a lot of time mastering is the problem? I can already cross strings with 2.

You want me to push hard on the string just before the saddle? Is that safe? Not sure I feel comfortable about this.

Not sure how i feel about this. My playing with 2 fingers is vastly superior. Do i continue devoting time to a technique that may or may not benefit me? This is practice time that may be spent more wisely.

OK. No problem. I've set the bass as best I can. It's more or less in tune, give a few cents. Any other problems are out of my control. I paid £165 for it after all. Can't expect it to start sounding like Jaco!

What do you mean by taking up the slack? There's no slack, it's tuned.

Seems to work for Billy Sheehan, and that guy from dream theatre (though I despise their songwriting, even if they are very technically proficient!)