thinman

Can I suggest a small fold up trolley from Screwfix for about £30? That's for transporting the amp - not playing through - they sound rubbish.

That way you can choose your amp more on sound preference etc and not practicality.

"Age old debate" - may be Old age debate?

I bought one. I should have realised as it said Squier on it. Actually it's rather good!

OK - assuming that you have a pair of them, are you saying that both are equally bad? It would be a bit odd (though not impossible) for both to have the same fault so I'm thinking what could be common to both.

Could there be a problem with the signal being sent to them (though I'm not sure what would cause them to be both quiet AND cause the clipping light to come on). E.g. phantom power creeping in somehow?

Another thought, is the mains supply to them both OK - have you tried anything else in the maims supply to confirm it's OK?

I'd be wary of putting good money after bad here. It's all in the design with speakers and the cabinet is a crucial part of that.

If you capable of cutting up and glueing plywood have a look at some of Bill Fitzmaurice's designs at www.billfitzmaurice.com.

Bill's also a regular contributor on here. For £100 you may be able to get a Jack12 (DIY) although the price of imported drivers and plywood has gone up a lot lately.

This is probably not conventional wisdom but I've always held the opinion that in a band it's not the solo sound that matters but the sound as part of the overall.

E.g. some of the nicer high end parts of the sound can be lost in the blend. The sound I tend to use I don't think sounds great by itself but sits with everything else just fine.

I've done a fair bit of mixing over the years with Cubase etc which started to make me listen to the production of records more. It seemed to me that in very busy productions individual sounds seem to be eq'ed to be quite "thin" so that they all find a bit of space in the spectrum whereas simple productions with less instruments permit individual sounds to be left more as originally recorded. Consequently I tend to think about the sounds in the band in the same way.

Just a thought - you said they "seem quieter". Is it a perception thing, i.e. they're less harsh, maybe less middy that the HKs?

Try having a fiddle with the E.Q. If you're just driving them with vocals they shouldn't be too challenged. I've got a pair of db Technologies Operas 415 which are quite similar in spec and it takes a fair bit to get the limiter light to come on - have never done it with vocals alone.

My Mrs glanced at this thread and thought it was about bassists wearing too much makeup - that means Gene Simmons and Mark King have something more in common than we think!

[quote name='martin8708' post='1159948' date='Mar 12 2011, 10:27 PM']or the guy from the Rotosound stand .[/quote]

I live round the corner from their place - must put a poo through their letterbox for you.

If Bill Fitzmaurice is reading this, can you design a round cab for a single 18" with legs a bit like a kick drum with a driver in one end? Then patent the design as it constitutes a whole new concept in roll-in, roll out bass cabs. Transportation problems a thing of the past!

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1159526' date='Mar 12 2011, 04:47 PM']Say's him with a bunch of BFM self builds that's probably able to shift enough air to move the guitarist & his rig off stage! [/quote]
Haha - the T39s are for the PA and I kindly share them with the drummers's bass drum. Gives us a nice bit of thud.

I've never tried the whole lot as just a bass rig - I ought to one day for a laugh.

I've never seen the point in having a big enough rig just to enter into a pi55ing contest with the guitarist - if they're that loud then they probably need to turn down.

Also, think about the kick drum. In my experience they quickly get lost and the whole band sound starts to get out of balance. You're then into the territory of needing a PA that can take kick drum too.

If the Big Beef Chief was still about he'd give you an opinion on the Warwick!

[quote name='oldslapper' post='1124396' date='Feb 11 2011, 09:36 PM']Indeed, worlds apart Spenner and Tibbs.

Alan Spenner, wonderful player. Used to see him play with Kokomo. Played a Wal then.

Tibbs.....pretty boy....brought in for the videos...got the Ants gig as he wasn't taller than Mr Ant. [/quote]

I thought it was Alan Spenner on the record too.

Incredibly versatile - was it him that played on Joe Cocker's "Little Help From My Friends"?

Sadly died some time ago.

Depending on which tweeter configuration they were built with, the BFM Omnis abd Jacks are OK for PA use.

[quote name='dincz' post='1082921' date='Jan 9 2011, 09:39 AM']I once had a power amp that put out 280W into 4 ohms. At maximum power (onset of clipping), the supply rail voltages dropped significantly (about 15% from memory). I added a second (identical) power transformer in parallel and the amp then managed 318W. Not that significant and hardly worth the effort or the added weight, but it did at least show that the transformer is a major factor.[/quote]

That being the case, is some of the variance in ratings into different loads due to the duration over which output is measured?

I'd imagine that with sufficient capacitors in the power supply high peaks could be achieved, but not sustained.

I'd like TimR to elaborate on what he was saying about looking at things the other way round, i.e. output is not halved by doubling the speaker impedance - just for education purposes.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1079415' date='Jan 6 2011, 01:45 AM']Is a low output impedance also possible with a valve amp? I understand they use transformers to match the high-impedance valve outputs to low-impedance speakers, but am not sure how low they can get with this approach.[/quote]

Not sure it makes much difference. We seemed to think that the fact the output at one speaker impedance is not double that at half that speaker impedance due to a combination of power supply inadequacy and the ratio of speaker impedance to amp output impedance.

Just because there's a transformer between the output stage and speaker doesn't really change that - the power supply still has to supply the same amount of power and the impedance ratio between the output stage and transformer will also change.

Or maybe that's b*ll*cks.

Banbarra

If effects are your thing my guess would be that you'd be best off with very neutral amp so probably solid state rather than valve. Cab-wise something with tweeters!

[quote name='thinman' post='1077936' date='Jan 4 2011, 09:38 PM']Actually, my maximum power transfer theory is seeping back - that does seem correct.[/quote]

Having had a quick scan round typical output impedances tend to be a lot lower than 2 ohms - less than 0.5 ohm seems common. So the amp's impedance does account for some of the degradation but I suspect a bit of corner cutting on the PSU front accounts for some degradation depending on how the measurements are taken.

[quote name='flyfisher' post='1077918' date='Jan 4 2011, 09:28 PM']If an amp is rated at, say, 500W into 4 ohms then surely the PSU must be capable of delivering that amount of power otherwise the manufacturer is telling porkies.

I'm not sure about the OP's assumption that an amplifier should be able to deliver twice as much power into a 4 ohm load as into an 8 ohm load. This might be the case if the amp itself had a zero output impedance, but that isn't very likely. In practice, the amplifier [u]will[/u] have an output impedance and this will mean the power into differing loads will not be a linear relationship.

Consider these numbers:

Amp output voltage = 10V in all cases

Amp output impedance = 0 + 8 ohm speaker = 8 ohms = 10/8 = 1.25 Amps = 12.5W = 100% power
Amp output impedance = 0 + 4 ohm speaker = 4 ohms = 10/4 = 2.50 Amps = 25.0W = 200% power

So, for an amp with zero output impedance the output power IS linear with respect to the speaker load.
But, allowing for the amplifier output impedance:

Amp output impedance = 2 + 8 ohm speaker = 10 ohms = 10/10 = 1.0 Amps = 10.0W = 100% power
Amp output impedance = 2 + 4 ohm speaker = 6 ohms = 10/6 = 1.67 Amps = 16.7W = 167% power

Amp output impedance = 4 + 8 ohm speaker = 12 ohms = 10/12 = 0.83 Amps = 8.3W = 100% power
Amp output impedance = 4 + 4 ohm speaker = 8 ohms = 10/8 = 1.25 Amps = 12.5W = 151% power


Thus, any amplifier with a finite output impedance cannot deliver twice the amount of power just because the external load is halved.
None of this has anything to do with the capability of the PSU.

(I think!).[/quote]


Actually, my maximum power transfer theory is seeping back - that does seem correct.

[quote name='dincz' post='1077902' date='Jan 4 2011, 09:15 PM']Exactly. That's what I meant about "an ideal world" and "a perfect power supply". So I'm wondering how valid it is to look at the percentage increase as an indicator of how well engineered an amp is. For class A/B, I'd expect weight (big transformer) to be an indicator as well (unless it's a switch mode supply of course).[/quote]


Wouldn't the need for a much larger transformer assume that the power output is measured over a relatively longer period? Short-term peaks can be handled by the resevoir caps.

I'm not sure what the standard is for measuring output in terms of time - I doubt many commonly available amps could sustain their maximum for long!

Isn't it often to do with the amp's power supply not being able to deliver enough current to deliver double the current when the impedance is halved?

To reach double the quoted 8ohm power at 4 ohms and double again at 2 ohms would mean much beefier, and expensive power supplies.

There's probably other reasons too!

As a CV owner and (pimped) Fender MIM owner I would suggest the following (assuming you can afford to):

1. Keep the CV and as suggested upgrade the electronics - it would be great value for money. Personally I don't find the pickups in the CV at all bad and that's compared with Wizards. At worst it would make a great backup bass.

2. Buy the HW and see how it goes!

[quote name='redstriper' post='1075494' date='Jan 2 2011, 05:21 PM']How do the wizards compare to the original pups on the jazz bass?[/quote]

A fair bit more output and they sound a bit "fatter". Although I like them I sometimes wonder if they take away a little bit of the typical jazz tone. They work well with the S1 switch I've got fitted and do a passable "P" impression.

I've got the CV 60's P in electric blue as my second bass. It's pretty good - I don't think the stock pickups are at all bad and that's comparing them with Wizard 84s on my Jazz. The machine heads are certainly livable too.

My only criticism was the factory setup - not quite enough relief on the neck so it's a bit buzzy but that's easily remedied.

I paid £260 for it lasy Christmas - it's a bargain!

[quote name='TomTFS' post='1073805' date='Dec 31 2010, 04:23 PM']I'd steer clear of the Alesis. The things are a bit dicey. Try looking at a Joe Meek channel strip too, one has EQ and Compression and can be had for about £100 too.[/quote]


If not Joe Meek then look for TFPro - same bloke behind them - Ted Fletcher. Same boxes but red paint instead of green.

I've got a P1 which is half-rack. Includes an opto-compressor and 3-band EQ.

BTW - I've got an Ashdown dual-bandcompressor pedal. Hideous thing. The TFPro, despite being single band, is in a different class.