ironside1966

[quote name='andy67' post='232408' date='Jul 4 2008, 01:32 AM']I recall 10 years ago living in my modest flat in the west end of Edinburgh...I was skint, struggling to make my way but, had my Yamaha TRB 5 and my Hughes & Kettner bassbase 400 with a Trace Elliot 4x10 cab.

Now, at that point I was happy and content with my gear having no need to buy other stuff or upgrade as my gear was more than fit for purpose. I now have constant gas and change gear regularly.

I want to return to being skint but content - how do I get there?

andy[/quote]

Heart failure worked for me.
Can’t work so now I’m skint, at one point I thought I was on my last legs, this made me realize what is important in life.
But I still want a better bass

A good rule of thumb is to listen to other bands in that venue, if they sound good then trust the soundman.

When working FOH for bands and there is plenty of time available I do not mind changing things around to suite the band, I may use a Di for back up.
When working with a few bands or time is short, I will stick to what I know and trust, the last thing you need is a mumping bass player or any musician for that matterwho's only concern is their sound or themselves,. Time given up you is time taken form another musician or band.

A lot of engineers are also very capable and experienced musicians and do understand it form both sides of the desk
A little respect,understanding, give and take go's a long way.

If the band behave like a pros and with respect that's generally how you will get treated back.
but then again there are some @rseholes out there.

BFD

If you want to use prerecorded loops and just play over the top then garage band is for you , Instant gratification.

If you want to get into recording seriously or use midi in a big way, Cuebase is the way to go.
Cuebase Le is just a cut down version so should be simpler to use then it big brother.

The old Cuebase vs., Logic, or Protocols debate, each has its + and – sides to it, in fact It is more like witch is best a Strat or a Les Paul debate.
There is a lot of naïve snobbery about which is best but it is down to the user rather than the software that determines the results, so If your mix sucks in Cuebase or Garage band it will suck in logic or protools.

Saying all that Logic 8 seems a good buy at the moment.

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='231154' date='Jul 2 2008, 10:24 AM']Nothing for sale on that link as far as I can see.[/quote]

They sold quick. might be worth keeping a eye on this seller as he as the same deal from time to time.

[url="http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/ped2005michael_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ"]http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/ped2005mic...QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ[/url]

30 GP Super alkaline PP3 9 volt batteries, the expiry date is July 2011 for £3.00 +£4.00 p&p bargin or what

“Do these sound engineering guys actually do anything to learn their craft?”
Sound guys often ask the same thing about some musicians.

If you behave like a pro that’s how most people treat you like one, I have found out both with musicians and engineers alike, it is easy to work with pros and amateur can be a pain.

If you regally get pissed of by sound guy’s take your own but remember that you get what you pay for. Maybe it’s something to do with your attitude.
If the venue pays the band very little, there is a good chance that the sound man is not on much more.
I know there are egotistical incompetent idiots out there who call them self sound guys, but upsetting them is not going to get you nowhere.

A sound check for me is nothing more then setting the levels and sorting out the foldback, it is the bands that turn it into a chimp’s tea party.
I try to accommodate the bands wishes as much as possible if there is time, if bands are late or waste messing around time while sound checking then I stick with triad and tested methods.

No neglect does, like bilbo say use it or lose it.

Learning something new only en answers your musical vocabulary.

Dat or mini disk player is what most people use.

OK
Track 1 James Brown - I Feel Good.
Track 2 Oleta Adams - Get Here.
Track 3 Abba - Dancing Queen.
Track 3 Gladys Knight And The Pips - Midnight Train In Georgia.

Even if you do not like the songs the bass lines are worth learning.
Good luck but most of all have fun.

Do you want me to name the tracks now, or wait a couple of days to give more people a chance?

[quote name='Hamster' post='217276' date='Jun 11 2008, 11:10 PM']A bit strange this - where's the proviso that you must be aged 17 - 19 and "no fat ageing balding lorry driver types" bit :wacko: [/quote]

Sounds a bit like me, not quite but nearly.
Give a bit longer, so everybody who wants to can gets a chance.

[quote name='ste_m3' post='217174' date='Jun 11 2008, 08:35 PM']Good idea, but im afraid i dont want to embarress myself![/quote]

It is not about that, it is about the experience of the task not who is the best player.

Is any one up for a mock audition for a function band?

If there is enough interest I will post a list of 4 songs for you to learn, pop and soul songs nothing too naff.

After seven days I will post some versions of the songs with the bass part removed
After a coupe of plays with the tracks, make a recording, post it in if you want ,

Let us know how you are get on.
Did you find it easy or hard?

I think this is a good learning experience and still worth a go even if you have would rather chop of you privet parts then play in a cover band.
Treat this as a real audition all 4 songs must be learnt with a good degree of accuracy.

I might even change the key of one or two if the singer is not happy.

[quote name='P-T-P' post='216936' date='Jun 11 2008, 03:00 PM']Straying slightly from the integrity discussion and onto something which has cropped up in it...

Isn't there more new music now, available to more people now than ever before? And isn't the problem partly that the best of that music is simply harder to find because of the sheer volume there is to sift through and partly that we're all guided by our taste too?

On a different tack again, isn't popular music (be that folk, jazz, country, soul etc.) separated from the other arts by the fact that a song, unlike a painting, novel etc. doesn't necessaily become an untouchable piece of art once the songwriting is complete, or it's first performance or even it's recorded release.

While in many cases, the original version will always stand as the benchmark, it's not completely uncommon for a cover to become the difinitive version.

Songs are living, breathing art because they need to be performed in order to exist. The Mona Lisa will still be there once you've left the room. But once the last note has disappeared, the song has gone and it was only those that heard it there and then who experienced the artistry involved in bringing it to life.

Each time it's brought to life, it will be slightly different - the musicians, the equipment, the room, the audience, the dancing and so many other factors all go into creating that little shared artistic moment.

Even if you've seen a song performed live by it's creator(s) countless times, it's only a collection of artistic moments you've been witness too, you'll never be able to get that exact same experience again. It's why covers bands exist. People want more than a memory, or to experience more moments. Even if some will be better than others, they still want them, even if they aren't fully aware of the artisic element of it all and express their enjoyment in less high-brow ways such as "I enjoy a sing-song." or "I love a good dance."

Every performacne is a little piece of art so we all have artistic integrity.[/quote]

Well said

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='216789' date='Jun 11 2008, 12:41 PM']But surely the effort required to create something of artistic merit is worth more than that required to simply recreate something someone else has already done.

Can you imagine what would have happened at your jazz festivals if you had played, say 'Body & Soul' and in doing so had repeated Coleman Hawkin's tenor solo from his 1939 recording. Or if you played Giant Steps and simply repeated Coltrane's solo. You may just avoid being laughed off the stage by your peers but you would never be take seriously as a player.

Now, if one of these tribute bands gets up and plays 'Comfortably Numb' note perfect, its a obviously a perfectly acceptable product for the market place, I acknowledge that, but how can that possibly be of equal merit to Pink Floyd doing the original? Or Porcupine Tree bringing their own slant on Prog Rock? Or IQ or Spock's Beard (I have never heard any of these by the way)?

My point all along has been that the repeated rendering of the same old stuff undermines the vitality of the art forms we engage in. People have always danced to music and WILL always dance to music, I am just not convinced that they need that music to be the same everytime they go out for them to feel like dancing. If someone can waltz, they can waltz. It doesn't have to be The Anniversary Waltz for the steps to work.

Familiarity breeds contempt![/quote]



Has A jazz musician more integrity then, for want of a better word classical musician, who can spend years perfecting a single piece?

What is that manufactured pop music I like?
The groups where told what to sing and what to play, how to look and there music's sole purpose to sell records.
Oh yes " Motown
Did it not help in the struggle for equality?
Cant, have done we all know manufactured pop lacks any integrity.

People who prefer get to pissed and act the pop star rather then to play properly for me lack integrity, regardless of what music the play

Keep Music Live
But only the bands I Like



I new a sound engineer once, on Saturday night he was full of opinions about integrity of other people and the bad points of other engineers.

Monday to Friday he fitted carpets
Sunday he rested.

The soundman probably uses is own DI

1 He knows it works and its safe.
2 Easier to keep track of is own gear, stops accusations of theft.

As with many things in life. with a sound man you get what you pay for, many venues just wont pay. it is not in the interest of a sound man to upset people for no reson, but if the venue pays is wages the venue calls the shots.
if you are unhappy with the venues sound man bring your own.

Inexperienced musicians tend to concentrate on there own sound not the bands.
Keep in mind you can not accurately judge the true sound of a amp in a band context 3 feet in front of the speaker, also with distortion some times less is more.

Try BFD
[url="http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=1"]http://www.fxpansion.com/index.php?page=1[/url]

Sometimes it sounds like we bass players are doing the world a favor by not depriving the populous of our contribution to music.

Is it me, or is it this simple

I Play covers for the money or because I it is something I enjoy. Usually both.
Or
I prefer to play my own bass line because it more fun for me then covers.

Most people in cover bands are just as capable at composing bass lines to other people’s songs.
I am sure the majority of you guys in original band are capable of playing in cover bands.

In all cases, some player are more versatile then others

Working as a FOH engineer, I have worked with quite a lot of original as well as function bands.
In most case function bands easer to work with and tend have a good professional attitude.

Many original bands take pride in the music and are a joy to work with, there enthusiasm is contagious and something many function bands lack.

To say that playing in an original band automatically gives you more integrity is just plain wrong.
I have lost count the number of FOH I have done for original bands who just want the pop star experience, get drunk, take drugs, chat up the audience.
The performance is the last thing on there minds.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='212583' date='Jun 4 2008, 04:15 PM']Errr.... that's my point. If its all covers, the whole thing dies, pop, classical, jazz, country, zydeco, reggae, folk.... all dead.

There IS a lot of creative music out there, even some people playing out of tune nonsense and calling it avant-garde, but it rarely gets an outing because of all these covers bands clogging up the gigs!

Let me make a point. I do a regular jazz gig in Bury St Edmunds, been doing it for 4 years. We do covers under the guise of jazz standards and, due to the generally conservative tastes of the bandleader, most of what we do is not particularly challenging. Our audience are not really listening; they look over in our direction once in a while and occasionally clap politely but it is what many call 'background music'. The standards we play are mostly the obvious Top 100 (the jazzers out there will know what I mean) but this audience demographic wouldn't know All The Things You Are if it walked in and bit them.

Anyway, occasionally, someone pulls out a composition of their own and, because they have done a bit of work, written out a decent chart and have something resembling an arrangement, these compositions stand out and people notice them and comment positively. The great thing is, the farther 'out' we go, the more the audience responds. These people are mostly 20-30. What is apparent is that they respond to the ENERGY not to the notes. When we play something original, there is something less tired and stale about it.

I just think if people stopped accepting covers bands, people would realise that their audience is more accommodating than we think and have more brains than we give then credit for. If the material is strong, they will get it. Remember, every song they ever hear they had to hear for the first time![/quote]

If you are bored the audience is it is that simple.

IMHO
1. The problem lies with either the band leader for playing the same tunes week after week and is stuck in his ways. But then again him as kept the gig for four years.

2. Or the band for lack of enthusiasm. The ability to perform is a very important to a musician.

Probably a bit of both.

If the original composition wakes the band up, then it probably is that the makes the audience takes more notice as much as the new tune.
But could you sustain the gig playing only original compositions

Few small points

1. I don't understand the loss of integrity at all.

2. If you prefer to play original music or covers, does it really matter?

3. A good band is a good band, whether covers or original. Same for a musician

4. I don’t understand this notion of if there where no cover bands the audience will have more interest in original bands, I you don’t give people what the want they will go some where else, cinema, pub, stop in with a few cans. Market forces. A local theater near me as suddenly started hosting tribute band after not having live music for many years. This might filter down to other bands in time.


5. I remember auditioning guitarists many years ago where a couple of the guitarist who turned up had only been in original bands and after a quick buck. They had the attitude a cover band was beneath them and they where doing me a favor by lowering them self to join us. If they had spent the time to learn the songs properly they would have known that the lacked the skills needed for the band.

6. If you are not getting enough gigs look inwards, do you entertain, is there something wrong with your promotion marketing, do people really want what you do.

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='211250' date='Jun 2 2008, 05:28 PM']Sod him.
We had a drummer who split up a band because he "sweated too much when he drummed".

Right-o[/quote]

Bo